The Christian Allegory of Danaerys H Targaryen

[gash is back]

we had an excellent exploration here a few years ago on the emerging theory of dany as an allegory of christ. I though it was worth starting up again.

it seems quite obvious to even the most casual of readers that dany represents jesus h. christ (of biblical fame) and by looking at jesus' own life we may understand dany's purpose and motivations more clearly. obviously this is a sprawling topic so i will try to be very concise to begin with and we can do some "deep diving" on the topic in the following few hundred pages of this thread.

1. Beginnings

Jesus was born under pretty harsh circumstances. king herod ordered all baby males to be killed in bethlehem, cauing the young family to flee to egypt. dany too was hunted by the Herod-like robert baratheon and had to relocate to another hot location, Essos which also begins with E. jesus did not know his real father, just like dany.

2. Freedom bringer


Dany freeing of the slaves is amongst her most noble and widely accepted acts of pure selfless humitarianism. just as jesus frees us from our sins.

3. Resurrection

Jesus died rather painfully and rose again, in order that our sins would be forgiven and that we would be saved. dany too undergoes a resurrection, in the funeral pire, where she emerges as the mother of dragons. she too, must undergo a painful experience in order for her to become the saviour of westeros. there is also heavy crucifxion imagery in ASOIAF, particularly in danys chapters.

4. Miracles

jesus was fond of the odd miracle. water into wine, curing people, driving demons out etc. dany too has shown supernatural powers. she is fireproof.

5. Forgiveness

jesus is big on forgiveness. he forgives us all if we seek it, unconditionally. dany too has shown this divine level of compassion - she does not kill jorah when he is revealed as a dirty traitor and she spares every slave owning monster under the age of 12 when she purifys astapor. (clever readers will note the similarities here to sodom and/or gomorrah)

6. The holy trinity

perhaps one of the strongest parallels between the dany and christian doctrine is the holy trinity. in the christian belief system we are told that god is also three other aspects; the father son and holy spirit, and this is one of mysterys of the christian faith. we are told time and time again throughout the ASOIAF books that "the dragon has three heads". also a mystery.

7. Relatives

we now see increasing evidence that jesus had brothers, and perhaps even a wife and kids, but there remains an air of mystery around these people. dany's relatives remain shrouded in mystery too.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

Yeah. I heard Superman was an allegory for Christ too. I don't buy it. Either way.

The question remains whether the similarities, which I find thin, are stronger than the differences. Still others will state that some of the key points of the gospels themselves take themes from other religious stories.

In my case, I just don't think that GRRM, despite being a lapsed Catholic, is the type to model one of his greatest heroines off of Jesus Christ. ASOIAF deals with some prevalent fantasy themes. It is, after all, in many ways a response, part of a conversation, to the great fantasy literature that came before it, which includes The Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia. These works were written by devout Christians and contained a good deal of Christian philosophy. ASOIAF approaches some of the same questions from a distinctly secular or at the least a deist pov.

[Smaug the Golden]

Ode to Danaerys

oh danaerys,

the epitomy of good are you,

when i'm weighing up moral decisions,

i think What Would Dany Do?

so just and fair,

and salt of the earth,

how skillfully you bestrode Drogo,

and managed all his girth.

how you hate slavery,

and don't put up with any knavery,

i have no doubt you will save westeros

and small will be the human life cost

oh danaerys.

FIN

[gash is back]

Ode to Danaerys

oh danaerys,

the epitomy of good are you,

when i'm weighing up moral decisions,

i think What Would Dany Do?

so just and fair,

and salt of the earth,

how skillfully you bestrode Drogo,

and managed all his girth.

how you hate slavery,

and don't put up with any knavery,

i have no doubt you will save westeros

and small will be the human life cost

oh danaerys.

FIN

beautiful.

thank you ser.

[Lady of Long Lake]

The biggest difference I see is that Jesus traded his OWN life so that others would live. Dany traded an anonymous person's life so that Drogo would live. Huge difference.

[SolomonBlack]

Its just the Messiah Archetype and the closely related Hero With 1000 Faces

Dany has messianic aspects of course, as does Superman, Luke Skywalker, Rand al'Thor, Mithras, Paul Atreides, Neo, and of course Big J himself. Countless more in tales big and small.

Actual allegory tends to be more direct, Aslan being the most famous.

[gash is back]

The biggest difference I see is that Jesus traded his OWN life so that others would live. Dany traded an anonymous person's life so that Drogo would live. Huge difference.

dany thought she was sacrificing a horse though.

jesus suffered so that others might find salvation. dany too has suffered by losing her child and husband, and being made barren (possibly).

[Raving Stark the Mad]

Actual allegory tends to be more direct, Aslan being the most famous.

This.

dany thought she was sacrificing a horse though.

Oh, I think she knew exactly what she was sacrificing to hatch some dragons.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

What does the H stand for in Jesus H. Christ?

Dany is not fireproof, though I grant that the dragon-hatching was miraculous, as the author himself has said.

Dany's also not barren. That's a common misunderstanding of the context of MMD's POV.

[gash is back]

What does the H stand for in Jesus H. Christ?

Dany is not fireproof, though I grant that the dragon-hatching was miraculous, as the author himself has said.

Dany's also not barren. That's a common misunderstanding of the context of MMD's POV.

Hodor.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Yeah. I heard Superman was an allegory for Christ too. I don't buy it. Either way.

The question remains whether the similarities, which I find thin, are stronger than the differences. Still others will state that some of the key points of the gospels themselves take themes from other religious stories.

In my case, I just don't think that GRRM, despite being a lapsed Catholic, is the type to model one of his greatest heroines off of Jesus Christ. ASOIAF deals with some prevalent fantasy themes. It is, after all, in many ways a response, part of a conversation, to the great fantasy literature that came before it, which includes The Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia. These works were written by devout Christians and contained a good deal of Christian philosophy. ASOIAF approaches some of the same questions from a distinctly secular or at the least a deist pov.

I agree. But I do see the three heads of the dragon taking on a trinity-esque meaning. Since many clues point to Jon being a "secret" Targ, the idea of the three heads of the Dragon, IMO, are a direct reference to Jon's three heads (bastard, Stark, Targ).

[Mithras]

I agree. But I do see the three heads of the dragon taking on a trinity-esque meaning. Since many clues point to Jon being a "secret" Targ, the idea of the three heads of the Dragon, IMO, are a direct reference to Jon's three heads (bastard, Stark, Targ).

Triple deities are not so uncommon in the real world. George invented one named Trios in his own universe.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

This.

Oh, I think she knew exactly what she was sacrificing to hatch some dragons.

The dragon hatch offerings weren't anonymous. Drogo, Dany herself, MMD.

[Lazy Sparrow]

Certainly Dany is a messianic figure, but we have to be careful about getting silly in drawing parallels. For example, all that about her family members being mysterious (incidentally, there is no increased evidence that Jesus had brothers and sisters, rather the same evidence and arguments both ways that have been argued for centuries. As for a wife and kids, again it's the same Gnostic story that has been known for centuries).

The whole "Prince who was Promised/Azor Ahai reborn" thing is this universe's version of messianic prophesy, and Dany's liberator story has clear messianic overtones, even beyond what is almost inevitable in hero stories. That does not mean she is an allegory for Christ, much less a Christian allegory. On another level Dany is almost a satanic figure, with her dragonriding and all, especially given how these dragons are described. And there are essential parts of her story, like her killing Drogo, with no reasonable parallel to Christ.

I will point out also (though it is not in principle incompatable with the alleged allegory) that this is an extremely secular story, even when it deal with religion and the supernatural. In particular all three probable "heads of the dragon" (Dany, Jon, Tyrion) are especially secular even by the standards of this story. I think that tells against any deliberately religious "message" being told through them. If anything it is likely to be the opposite, the deliberate subversion of the classical messianic pattern and the values generally associated with it.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Triple deities are not so uncommon in the real world. George invented one named Trios in his own universe.

No they are not, and while a little different Roman gods were usually Greek gods with different names.

If Jon does represent all three heads, Martin could have been influenced from any number of places.

I do wonder if there is a correlation between the many faced god, and the idea of the three heads. I doubt it, rather I am not casting money on it, but the idea of one god with many faces could hint that maybe a dragon with three heads is more metaphorical rather than literal. A sort of hint ....This really is not the topic here, so I should just shut up....

Sorry OP, I wasn't trying to hijack your post....

[Raving Stark the Mad]

I agree. But I do see the three heads of the dragon taking on a trinity-esque meaning.

The problem is that the "three heads of the dragon" concept lacks the defining ideas surrounding the Christian concept of the Trinity. There is no mystery. There is no three persons in one being. If Dany had multiple personality disorder, or if she were a demi-goddess/avatar, then I could see it. The three heads of the dragon has more in common with the idea of the triumvirate found in late Roman Republic historiography.

[Lazy Sparrow]

The problem is that the "three heads of the dragon" concept lacks the defining ideas surrounding the Christian concept of the Trinity. There is no mystery. There is no three persons in one being. If Dany had multiple personality disorder, or if she were a demi-goddess/avatar, then I could see it. The three heads of the dragon has more in common with the idea of the triumvirate found in late Roman Republic historiography.

I'll point out, it also closely resembles the symbolism in the Book of Revelation in which the seven-headed dragon almost certainly represents, on one level at least, seven Roman Emperors. Rhaegar's words about the three heads strongly suggest that he at least similarly interpreted each head of the dragon as a separate person, three people who would collectively fulfill prophecy. Of course that does not close discussion on the matter, since Rhaegar was not exactly great at interpreting prophecy.

To bring things closer to the main subject again, I don't think we need to make too much of this parallel either. Just because Martin used a prophetic image similar to a biblical one does not necessarily mean the meaning of his image is closely linked to the meaning of the biblical one. If it was it would seem to be a pro-antichrist message, but from what I've read about the author a consciously Satinic message seems about as unlikely as a consciously Christian one. The cultural perspective here seems not to be Christianity or Satanism, but that of a secular, somewhat jaded former Christian interested in crafting a fictional universe as complex and inscrutable as this one appears from that perspective.

[JonisHenryTudor]

The problem is that the "three heads of the dragon" concept lacks the defining ideas surrounding the Christian concept of the Trinity. There is no mystery. There is no three persons in one being. If Dany had multiple personality disorder, or if she were a demi-goddess/avatar, then I could see it. The three heads of the dragon has more in common with the idea of the triumvirate found in late Roman Republic historiography.

Sure but three heads. Jon is a bastard (1 head/face), Jon Stark (2nd face/head), and the final head which is his Targ.

But let's consider the "three heads of the dragon" statement.

The fifth room, finally, shows a man very much alike her brother Viserys, except that he is taller and has eyes of dark indigo rather than lilac. He is speaking to a woman who is nursing a newborn babe, telling her that the child’s name should be Aegon and saying that “What better name for a king?”. The woman asks him if he will make a song for the child, and he replies that he has a song and that “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.”. He appears to look at Dany then, as if seeing her, and then he adds that “There must be one more,” and “The dragon has three heads

Pay attention to the final line, since the way it is worded is most important. There must be one more (referring to Jon most likely), the dragon has three heads. It comes immediately after the claim that there must be one more. It reads very much that the one more has three heads, and is somewhat of a hint for Dany. The hidden dragon has three heads, or:

Jon is viewed by those he encounters as a bastard. Ned knows Jon is part Stark, but he also knows Jon is the product of RL hence the third and final head. Thus three heads in one dragon. There doesn't need to be multiple personalities or anything like that. It reads simply that there is one more dragon and he has three heads.

If RL=J pans out, that means Jon is a dragon. He is a Targ. But from our pov, throughout the story Jon would have adorned three heads. The bastard, the Stark, and the Dragon.

[bb1180]

dany thought she was sacrificing a horse though.

That's the excuse she told herself, but she didn't seem to actually believe it. Nor should she.

[JonisHenryTudor]

To bring things closer to the main subject again, I don't think we need to make too much of this parallel either. Just because Martin used a prophetic image similar to a biblical one does not necessarily mean the meaning of his image is closely linked to the meaning of the biblical one. If it was it would seem to be a pro-antichrist message, but from what I've read about the author a consciously Satinic message seems about as unlikely as a consciously Christian one. The cultural perspective here seems not to be Christianity or Satanism, but that of a secular, somewhat jaded former Christian interested in crafting a fictional universe as complex and inscrutable as this one appears from that perspective.

:agree: