409 replies to this topic

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I'd pay Mr. Rothfuss a great deal of money to make Devi an Amyr.  Outside of Kvothe, Bast, and The Chronicler she is one of the most interesting and mysterious characters in the series.  She's stronger than Kvothe, she's ruthless but seems to have a strong moral compass despite that.  I'd love more chapters focused on Devi.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Another thought, does anyone else think Sympathy and naming seem to be at odds?  Sympathy is very disciplined scientific and limited.  It depends upon the rational strenght of the user's mind.  

Naming appears to be very dependent upon the user letting go of rational thought and allowing their immediate sensation of the world around them to dominate without extensive cogitation aboput the subject they seeks to control.  In fact, given Elodin's lessons it appears too much cogitationa bout the subject may make Naming more difficult.

[Slick Mongoose]

Ser Scot A Ellison, on 10 March 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:

Another thought, does anyone else think Sympathy and naming seem to be at odds?  Sympathy is very disciplined scientific and limited.  It depends upon the rational strenght of the user's mind.  

Naming appears to be very dependent upon the user letting go of rational thought and allowing their immediate sensation of the world around them to dominate without extensive cogitation aboput the subject they seeks to control.  In fact, given Elodin's lessons it appears too much cogitationa bout the subject may make Naming more difficult.

Yes, I think that's spot on. Probably one of the reasons Elodin was so reluctant to teach Kvothe, and why he got so little from the lessons.

I wonder how Devi is at naming?

[thistlepong]

TeaSpoon, on 10 March 2011 - 04:13 AM, said:

Where did you hear that one of the twin cities survived? I couldn't find any evidence of this happening.

I'll look for it again.  I may have conflated Felurian's story about Murella.  Tinue/Tinusa is a good possibility.
The description of the Underthing sounded like a creation war city, but I hadn't connected Belenay/Belen.  Good catch.

Begging your pardon,I'm just gonna steal your geographical list and add to it.

Ceald
- Ralien
- Anilin

Commonwealth
- Hallowfell
- Imre
- Tarbean
- Belenay-Barren

Yll

Aturan Empire
- Atur

The Small Kingdoms
- Junpui

Modeg- Cershaen

Vintas
- Renere
- The free city of Tinue
- Severen
- Levinshir
- Temsford
* - Abbot's Ford
* - Rannish
* - Newarre
* - Baedn
* - Treya

Ademre

The Stormwal Mountains

The Tahlenwold

[TeaSpoon]

I've been skimming Wise Man's Fear for more locations. This is what I've got so far. I don't know in which country these places are; they were mentioned in passing.

There was mention of "the siege of Enfast"
Treya is close to the Waystone Inn
"Lanetti coffee" was mentioned
Arueh makes "fine dark ink"
Glantz makes steel
"The Omethi River" divides the university from Imre
Bredon beer is made in Bredon
This one dude in Elodin's class is from "the Lanett"
Caluptena was burned down by the church and was more open-minded than even the university
Trebon is "twenty-five leagues by road" from the University
Marrow is a Northern town
Sceria has a type of dog "that gives birth through a vestigial penis"
Every traveler eventually passes through "Faeriniel"
- Interesting thing about Faeriniel. It has a circle of waystones in the center and its name contains "fae." Apperently, it's on the road to both Tinue and Belenay, which means it's probably on the Great Stone Road
The Tahlenwald has singers that can heal the sick and make trees dance
Dalonir is the duchy Sim is from
Aturna lies close to Dalonir
Gibea is the name of the Duke that killed 20,000 people. I think it might also be the name of the duchy. It's very close to Dalonir
The Master Artificer made mention of Vi Sembi raiders
To reach Severen from the University, Kvothe went through the the Refting Strait and up the Arrand River

Edited by TeaSpoon, 10 March 2011 - 09:47 AM.

[Slick Mongoose]

jaerken, on 09 March 2011 - 10:07 PM, said:

3) Taberlins Copper Sword: wasn't sure what to make of this until a re-read of NOTW.

This is from Kvothodin's trip to the Rookery looking at Elodin's old room:

"I went to look at the windows, they were thicker than usual, but not that thick.  They seemed normal except for faint reddish streaks running through them.  I glanced at the window frame.  It was copper too.  I looked slowly around the room eyeing its bare stone walls, felling its strange heavy air.  I noticed the door didn't have a handle on the inside, let alone a lock.  Why would anyone go through all the trouble of making a solid copper door?"
...Elodin breaks the stone wall
"...the whole wasn't completely clear, some green material was spread across the opening.  It almost looked like a dirty tangled net but it was too irregular for nettinge... Parts of it broke easily or flaked away.  Where it was thicker, he used the leg as a lever to bend pieces aside.  Where it bent or broke it glimmered bright in the sunlight.  [i]Veins of copper running through the blocks of stone that made up the wall."

Given that Elodin can speak the names of everything in that room but has to use physical strength to bend the copper bits, the copper sword makes a lot more sense now.

Do we think there's something unique about copper? I was under the impression that the copper was in Elodin's room because he didn't know the name of copper. But if that's linked to Taborlin using a copper sword, presumably that would be because nobody knows the name of copper?

But that would be really odd. In a world where people can control the wind, iron, fire, and even other people, what makes copper special?

Edited by Slick Mongoose, 10 March 2011 - 10:01 AM.

[needle]

Just bought it. It's a monster! can't wait to get started..

[Gaston de Foix]

Slick Mongoose, on 10 March 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

Do we think there's something unique about copper? I was under the impression that the copper was in Elodin's room because he didn't know the name of copper. But if that's linked to Taborlin using a copper sword, presumably that would be because nobody knows the name of copper?

But that would be really odd. In a world where people can control the wind, iron, fire, and even other people, what makes copper special?

copper oxidises easily and cuprous oxide is green. Maybe oxidisation prevents people from speaking its name?

But maybe the simpler answer is that copper is more effective against the Fae, hence Taborlin's sword?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Oh, Rothfuss has confirmed that those copies of TWMF without a number line on the Copyright page are first prints.  It is a printer's error that only occured in the first printing.  I'm glad he clarified because I was wondering about my copy.

[Slick Mongoose]

grinachu, on 10 March 2011 - 10:16 AM, said:

But maybe the simpler answer is that copper is more effective against the Fae, hence Taborlin's sword?

More effective than Iron? That seems unlikely.

[Returned]

Ser Scot A Ellison, on 10 March 2011 - 07:31 AM, said:

I'd pay Mr. Rothfuss a great deal of money to make Devi an Amyr.  Outside of Kvothe, Bast, and The Chronicler she is one of the most interesting and mysterious characters in the series. She's stronger than Kvothe, she's ruthless but seems to have a strong moral compass despite that.  I'd love more chapters focused on Devi.

Yup. And that's exactly how Amyr are portrayed, good in a ruthless no-nonsense way. Plus Kvothe realized she actually doesn't give a fig about the money with her loans, it's about building up a network for her.

[Gaston de Foix]

Returned, on 10 March 2011 - 10:49 AM, said:

Yup. And that's exactly how Amyr are portrayed, good in a ruthless no-nonsense way. Plus Kvothe realized she actually doesn't give a fig about the money with her loans, it's about building up a network for her.

I don't think there are any human Amyr, Felurian certainly claims that.

[Returned]

grinachu, on 10 March 2011 - 11:18 AM, said:

I don't think there are any human Amyr, Felurian certainly claims that.

Felurian was talking about the time even before the rise of the church, I believe. Who knows how it is now?

[Slick Mongoose]

grinachu, on 10 March 2011 - 11:18 AM, said:

I don't think there are any human Amyr, Felurian certainly claims that.

I thought that the original Amyr were the angels, but then humans kind of copied them.

I mean, clearly Felurian is wrong, there were humans who at least called themselves Amyr.

[Foreverlad]

Slick Mongoose, on 10 March 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

Do we think there's something unique about copper? I was under the impression that the copper was in Elodin's room because he didn't know the name of copper. But if that's linked to Taborlin using a copper sword, presumably that would be because nobody knows the name of copper?

But that would be really odd. In a world where people can control the wind, iron, fire, and even other people, what makes copper special?

I don't have Name of the Wind in front of me, but early in the book, during the a lesson on sympathy Abenthy is giving Kvothe, Kvothe is asked to explain the history of one of the civilizations and the origin of the coinage.  Was copper brought up during that discussion?

[Slick Mongoose]

Maurice Moss, on 10 March 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

I don't have Name of the Wind in front of me, but early in the book, during the a lesson on sympathy Abenthy is giving Kvothe, Kvothe is asked to explain the history of one of the civilizations and the origin of the coinage.  Was copper brought up during that discussion?

No.

[mdcclv]

Maurice Moss, on 10 March 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

I don't have Name of the Wind in front of me, but early in the book, during the a lesson on sympathy Abenthy is giving Kvothe, Kvothe is asked to explain the history of one of the civilizations and the origin of the coinage.  Was copper brought up during that discussion?

Not very usefully:

Quote

"The no-longer-nomads, called the Cealdim by now, were the first to establish a standardized currency. By cutting one of these smaller bars into five pieces you get five drabs." I began to piece two rows of five drabs together to illustrate my point. They resembled little ingots of metal. "Ten drabs are the same as a copper jot; ten jots—" "Good enough," Ben broke in, startling me.

Sorry if what follows duplicates what has already been said: my brain is not completely working today. Presumably this copper thread has already noted that all four plates of the four-plate door are copper—"untarnished". The door to Elodin's room in the Crockery is also all-copper. It's noteworthy that Kvothe doesn't make the connection to the four-plate door when he asks himself and then Elodin in the Crockery

Quote

Why  would anyone go through all the trouble of making a solid copper door? I decided on my second question. "How did you get out?"

Noteworthy because if Rothfuss didn't explicitly make the connection when it first arose, he must be putting it out there subtly so that later events can show how clever he was at setting them up far in advance.

I, too, find it hard to imagine that Lorren or any other Archivist would want something dangerous to be imprisoned among the books. But there's definitely an implication there that copper is used to contain things that are sympathetically hard to contain, and has some sort of effect on the fae as well. The labrynthine topography of the Underthing also makes me suspect that some of its structure must predate the University. I.e. that possibly the University was built on top of some ruins of Belen. That doesn't get me far enough to believe that the thing behind the doors is as old as Belen, though.

Edited by mdcclv, 10 March 2011 - 12:42 PM.

[TeaSpoon]

New list!

Quote

Ceald
- Ralien
- Anilin

Commonwealth
- Hallowfell
- Imre
- Tarbean
- Belenay-Barren
- Trebon

Yll

Aturan Empire
- Atur
- Dalonir
- Aturna
- Gibea

The Small Kingdoms
- Junpui

Modeg
- Cershaen

Vintas
- Renere
- The free city of Tinue
- Severen
- Levinshir
- Temsford
- Crosson
- The Pirate Isles ~ Ambrose's Barony, given his closeness to the Vintish throne, presumably in Vintas
- The western farrel ~ The girl Denna helped was from a town in the western farrel
- Bannis ~ There's a Viceroy of Bannis who smuggled sweets into a banquet
- Abbot's Ford ~ The following are guesses
- Rannish
- Newarre
- Baedn
- Treya

Ademre
- Haert
- Feant

Faerie
- the Tain Mael
- the Daendan
- the Gorse Court

Seas, Oceans, and Rivers
- The Reft
- the Refting Strait ~ The straight between Yll and Common Wealth coast South-East of Tarbean
- Arrand River ~ Either in Vintas or the Small Kingdoms
- the Omethi River ~ Runs past Imre

The Stormwal Mountains

The Tahlenwald

Unknown
- Enfast
- Lanett
- Arueh
- Glantz
- Bredon
- Caluptena
- Sceria
- Faeriniel
- Vi Sembi
- Vartheret
- Andenivan

[jaerken]

grinachu, on 10 March 2011 - 06:12 AM, said:

It is implied that the Amyr are about to reach again when Kvothe is attacking the bandit's camp. Cinder raises his head and smells the air in a gesture that resembles the one Haliax made many years ago when the Chandrian killed his parents. Either the references to Tehlu and the angels, including Ordal etc attracted the attention of the Amyr or Kvothe's repeated use of sympathy offensively, but either way Cinder escaped not from Kvothe but from the Amyr.

This scene is very telling in my mind.  For one, the tracker that Kvothe is with is chanting a prayer to Tehlu and Kvothe yells "He (Cinder) can hear us!"  Then after that, Cinder looks to the sky anticipating something coming.  I think just like the Chandrian can "know" when someone uses their name, Tehlu and the Amyr can do the same.  Thus, by repeating a prayer to Tehlu, the tracker (Marten?) is unintentionally alerting the Amyr to their location.  

Also, the shapeshifter / skin dancer from the first book.  Presumably this is another creature that was "behind the doors of stone."  This is why I think that whatever Kvothe did caused the doors of stone to be opened.  Things are locked away for a reason.  Perhaps Kvothe stole the moon back and it caused all manner of war.  Also, "The Penitent King" sounds like an apt nickname for the Maer.

Edited by jaerken, 10 March 2011 - 12:55 PM.

[jaerken]

also regarding changing names... if Elxa Dal can use the name of Fire to manipulate it to take the heat out of it, presumably you can use someones name to do all manner of things like take out their natural aging mechanism