Wise Man's Fear Spoilers Thread (SPOILERS)

[aariafromarty]

On a spot check second read, I noticed this.

Elodin looked back and forth between the two of us. "Auri?"

...

Auri understood before I did. "It's my name," she said..."Kvothe gave it to me."

And then later

"Why Auri?"..."Because shes's so bright and sweet. She doesnt have any reason to be, but she is. Auri means sunny.

"In what language?"

"Siaru, I think"

Elodin shook his head. "Sunny is leviriet in Siaru."

I tried to think where I'd learned the word. Had I stumbled onto it in the Archives...?

It is interesting to note that Auri has completely allowed herself to be reNamed by someone else. It is also significant because this is what leads Elodin into accepting Kvothe into his class. Anyone have an idea where Kvothe has heard auri before?

Also Iax was the the greatest of the shapers and is locked behind a door of stone.

[Slick Mongoose]

It is interesting to note that Auri has completely allowed herself to be reNamed by someone else. It is also significant because this is what leads Elodin into accepting Kvothe into his class. Anyone have an idea where Kvothe has heard auri before?

I've thought about this a bit, but there's not really much info to go on. Clearly Auri is a good name, in Elodin's opinion (and Auri's). It'd be nice to know what it means - does it just mean sunny in a different language, or something completely different?.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

It's interesting that all of Kvothe's teachers comment about how clever and thoughtless he can be. Ben, Elodin, Vashet, Kilvin, Lorren, all see him as talented ansd very Dangerous. Ben was tempted to tell Kvothe about Lanre as an object lesson on the dangers of being powerful and thoughtless.

Are Kvothe and Denna a new itteration of Lanre and Lyra?

[Zordrath]

I've thought about the bit with Auri's name as well. Could Auri perhaps be her true name, and Elodin accepted Kvothe into his class because he was able to see it and thus proved himself a namer? This would explain why Kvothe thought he knew it from somewhere, but couldn't place the language, similiar to how he subconsciously knew the Name of the Wind.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I just re-read Skarpi's stories. I have a question. How did Skarpi know Kvothe's name? Kvothe never introduced himself to Skarpi even though they spoke before Skarpi was arrested.

Who or what is Skarpi since Skarpi was also helping The Chronicler find Kvothe? Is Skarpi Amyr or something more?

[AverageGuy]

It's clear that he lost mobility in one of his hands.

I found another possible bit of evidence. 686, when Bast's talking about the Cthaeh and its flowers:

"The Rhinna?" Not seeing any recognition in the innkeeper's face he shook his head in dismay. "The flowers are a panacea, Reshi. They can heal any illness. Cure any poison. Mend any wound."

Kvothe raised his eyebrows at that. "Ah," he said, looking down at his folded hands on the tabletop. "I see. I can understand how that might draw a person in, though they knew better."

It may not just be one hand. We've assumed because of his oath to Denna, but there's plenty of time for other things to go wrong.

Someone else mentioned that they might have let him through deliberately. His name is "The broken tree", after all.

I don't think the Sithe let him through if they thought there was a chance of him destroying the tree. The Cthaeh isn't the tree itself. Kvothe glimpses it moving under the branches, Bast says it can't leave the tree. I don't think the Sithe would like it if Kvothe were to set free the Cthaeh, though the Cthaeh might not mind.

It is one of the trees we focus on. The others are the sword tree and the leafless tree (probably due to winter, "ferule chill") associated with Cinder.

I just re-read Skarpi's stories. I have a question. How did Skarpi know Kvothe's name? Kvothe never introduced himself to Skarpi even though they spoke before Skarpi was arrested.

Who or what is Skarpi since Skarpi was also helping The Chronicler find Kvothe? Is Skarpi Amyr or something more?

I believe Skarpi's part of the remnant of the human Amyr. He said he had contacts in the church when the Tehlin arrested him, and it would make sense if the Amyr still had a presence there.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

AG,

I thought of that too, still, how did Skarpi know Kvothe's name?

[AverageGuy]

AG,

I thought of that too, still, how did Skarpi know Kvothe's name?

I have no clue. The only possibility I can think of is based on a few premises: 1) Netalia Lackless is Kvothe's mother, 2) the human Amyr follow anyone related to the doors, including the Lacklesses. However, at that point Kvothe was just one random street urchin out of many, so there was no way to pick him out even if they knew which troop she'd been a part of. Naming? Sympathetic dousing compass? Divine intervention?

The thing is, short of Skarpi being one of Tehlu's angels, I can't think of anyone he could be where this isn't a problem.

[hadaad]

I love this book. I ate it up, but I read most intensely when Denna was on screen and when they were talking about the Chandrian.

I love how Kvothe makes mistakes that he doesn't even realize while he's re-telling (so it seems).

[mdcclv]

Skarpi says he only knows one story, the story that's "growing all around us." It's too outlandish to infer that Skarpi has a Cthaeh-level omniscience, but he may at least know enough of the "story" to know about Kvothe and/or know that, say, Kvothe was going to be the kid who came in that day and stayed after to chat.

[TeaSpoon]

However Iax was not the first shaper, I think, but merely the most powerful. I also somewhat disagree with you about the old man being irrelevant in the story. The old man was a Namer and familiar with their lore who was searching the name of the wind. In fact I suspect he was called an E'lir or listener. His presence in the story suggests that the Namers (or a particular Namer) tried to dissuade Iax from capturing the moon but did not succeed in doing so. This namer also had skills Iax did not have, being able to open the knot on the tinker's pack where Iax failed.

You might be right about the old man. He could represent the namers. You're wrong about Iax being only the most powerful shaper, though.

Her smile faded. "but one shaper was greater than the rest. for him the making of a star was not enough. he stretched his will across the world and pulled her from her home."

Lifting the smooth stone to the sky, Felurian carefully closed one eye. She tilted her head as if trying to fit the curve of the stone into the empty arms of the crescent moon above us. "that was the breaking point. the old knowers realized no talk would ever stop the shapers." Her hand dropped back into the water. "he stole the moon and with it came the war."

"Who was it?" I asked.

Her mouth curved into a tiny smile. She hooted: "who? who?"

"Was he of the faen courts?" I prompted gently.

Felurian shook her head, amused. "no. as I said, this was before the fae. the first and greatest of the shapers."

"What was his name?"

She shook her head. "no calling of names here. I will not speak of that one, though he is shut beyond the doors of stone."

Before I could ask more questions, Felurian took my hand and nestled the stone between our palms again. "this shaper of the dark and changing eye stretched out his hand against the pure black sky. he pulled the moon, but could not make her stay. so now she moves 'twixt mortal and the fae."

[jurble]

A thought, could Sympathy be "shaping"?

Shaping sounds like whatever art was used to make Tehlu into an angel (and how Iax made the Fae). When Aleph turns Tehlu into an angel, it sure as hell wasn't naming, was it? Maybe the altering of names is what Shaping is? But I don't see how you could use Sympathy to create the Fae, or the other pocket dimensions the Shapers created.

I think people who could Name could also Shape. Iax was Selitos' equal in Naming, but he was also clearly a Shaper. I think Aleph was probably the Tinker in the story told by the mercenary chick.

Felurian was one of them, so presumably they were Fae?

Was she? Haliax, Selitos, Aleph, and Tehlu, are the ones we've seen speak in stories, and they sure as hell don't seem like Fae. Moreover, the Fae look like faeries, one of the Chandrian that Kvothe sees when his troupe is massacred is an old man with a beard - he looks human.

[AverageGuy]

the first Amyr were said not to be human. Ergo, they all must not be human, but they seem to appear human.

I think they used to be. There is the line, "There were never any human Amyr," but that may just mean they stopped being human when they became the Amyr.

Felurian shook her head, amused. "no. as I said, this [a shaper stealing the moon] was before the fae. the first and greatest of the shapers."

This is something I wondered about at the time, but I forgot all about it. Did anyone else get the impression from this that the shapers created the fae?

On the other hand, there were apparently "knowers" before both men and fae. They may be the Amyr.

[jurble]

This is something I wondered about at the time, but I forgot all about it. Did anyone else get the impression from this that the shapers created the fae?

Scroll up, someone figured it out up-thread, Iax's funky house was the Fae.

[Slick Mongoose]

I found another possible bit of evidence. 686, when Bast's talking about the Cthaeh and its flowers:

"The Rhinna?" Not seeing any recognition in the innkeeper's face he shook his head in dismay. "The flowers are a panacea, Reshi. They can heal any illness. Cure any poison. Mend any wound."

Kvothe raised his eyebrows at that. "Ah," he said, looking down at his folded hands on the tabletop. "I see. I can understand how that might draw a person in, though they knew better."

So, is Kvothe now going to run back to the Cthaeh in search of a cure?

[Slick Mongoose]

Was she? Haliax, Selitos, Aleph, and Tehlu, are the ones we've seen speak in stories, and they sure as hell don't seem like Fae. Moreover, the Fae look like faeries, one of the Chandrian that Kvothe sees when his troupe is massacred is an old man with a beard - he looks human.

OK, probably not fae then. :P

Although i'm not sure how much the Fae really look different from humans, Bast seems not to stand out too much to people who don't know what to look for.

Why can't all these historical characters just be humans with special powers?

[jurble]

OK, probably not fae then. :P

Although i'm not sure how much the Fae really look different from humans, Bast seems not to stand out too much to people who don't know what to look for.

Why can't all these historical characters just be humans with special powers?

'cuz the first Amyr weren't human, duh! And Selitos was one of the first Amyr.

[Slick Mongoose]

'cuz the first Amyr weren't human, duh! And Selitos was one of the first Amyr.

'sez Felurian. :P

Edit: If you scoff at the notion that they might be fae, and scoff at the notion they might be human, you're not left with much.

They were all hippos.

[jurble]

'sez Felurian. :P

Edit: If you scoff at the notion that they might be fae, and scoff at the notion they might be human, you're not left with much.

They were all hippos.

I'm fine with designating this mysterious race of people as hippos.

Anyway, Skarpi does seem to have some connection with the Amyr. I think he sent Chronicler to Kvothe to get him out of his funk, and get back into fighting. I imagine one of the ways that will finally click in Kvothe's head that he has to do something, is that somehow the point that the war is his fault, and that, therefore, it's his responsibility to fix, will get into his head.

[AverageGuy]

Scroll up, someone figured it out up-thread, Iax's funky house was the Fae.

Yeah, I get that, I already got that the world was the house when I was reading the book. What I mean is, the beings are also called the Fae, were the two made together?

Felurian talks about eating from the silver tree while sitting on the walls of Murella. But that was supposed to be when the Shapers were like toddlers, before they went so far as to make an entire world. So I got the impression the Fae-the-creatures originally lived under the one sky and moved to Fae-the-world later.

"Was he of the faen courts?" I prompted gently.

Felurian shook her head, amused. "no. as I said, this was before the fae. the first and greatest of the shapers."

Basically, I'm having trouble reconciling references to the creatures existing before the world and the world existing before the creatures. Also, if the world is the Fae, how can Iax steal the moon and put it in the Fae "before the Fae?"

ETA: Never mind, I got it.