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[BOOK & TV SPOILERS] What was left out and what was left in.


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#81 Abaddon

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 11:17 AM

I dislike the scene because, IMHO, Tyrion is a "one woman" kind of man, even though they are whores. Maybe they're doing this to make his later relationship (such as it is) with Shae seem more unusual, not just the way he is normally. If that's what they are setting up, then I could see that working.

#82 Eponine

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:24 PM

I dislike the scene because, IMHO, Tyrion is a "one woman" kind of man, even though they are whores. Maybe they're doing this to make his later relationship (such as it is) with Shae seem more unusual, not just the way he is normally. If that's what they are setting up, then I could see that working.


His relationship with Shae WAS unusual.

Between Tysha and Shae, it's implied that Tyrion goes through any number of whores without forming any real relationship or being dedicated to just one of them at a time.

He doesn't seek out Shae as a longtime companion - he sends Bronn to find a random pretty camp follower and comments that he'd told Bronn to warn the girl he found because "there was a look the girls got in their eyes sometimes when they first beheld the lordling they'd been hired to pleasure". In other words, he's hired a lot of whores, but he falls for Shae because she's so good at faking love for him. This really wouldn't contradict the image of him cavorting with multiple whores before he meets Shae.

#83 Fangus

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:33 PM

I did not see Mance Rayder at the feast. Not that I expected to.

But I loved the show. And I have been reading this forum for a while now but only today signed up. Sorry my first post wasn't a better contribution...

Edited by Fangus, 19 April 2011 - 12:52 PM.


#84 Whitering

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:34 PM

I will further add that he was with one woman before Jaime threw three more into the room.

The thing I missed most about Danny's wedding was her joy of riding Silver for the first time. We didn't get that ride here and I think it was important as it helped to earn the respect of the Dothraki.

#85 reiver

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:39 PM

I can understand that aspect as they're trying to simplify Dany's character at the start to make her arc more pronounced (same with the no, no, no, yes). I hope they incorporate that scene into a later episode as part of her empowerment as i like the "given me the wind" line.

#86 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:42 PM

His relationship with Shae WAS unusual.

Between Tysha and Shae, it's implied that Tyrion goes through any number of whores without forming any real relationship or being dedicated to just one of them at a time.

He doesn't seek out Shae as a longtime companion - he sends Bronn to find a random pretty camp follower and comments that he'd told Bronn to warn the girl he found because "there was a look the girls got in their eyes sometimes when they first beheld the lordling they'd been hired to pleasure". In other words, he's hired a lot of whores, but he falls for Shae because she's so good at faking love for him. This really wouldn't contradict the image of him cavorting with multiple whores before he meets Shae.

I agree with your assessment of his character. When Cersei suggests that he might joing the Night's Watch and he responds that the whores from Dorne to Casterly Rock would go begging, that seems like a joke with a lot of truth in it. They need to establish that really well because he won't be having that much chance to set that part of his character until he meets Shae, unless he has an extra stop in Mole Town

#87 Abaddon

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:26 PM

Good points, Eponine. I guess most of the time we see Tyrion he's already hooked up with Shae or celibate not by choice (traveling to/from or at the Wall, captive on the way to the Eyrie and at the Eyrie, etc). So it didn't really seem like it was like that in the books, but as you say, it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Edited by Abaddon, 19 April 2011 - 01:26 PM.


#88 TheLoneliestMonk

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:29 PM

Bran was what was missing. The thing hat first got me tearing through the books was wanting to find out what had happened to bran after the fall, but the show spent the time they should have spent building bran love on arya while she really could have waited on epp 2

#89 Ferrum Aeternum

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:37 PM

Bran was what was missing. The thing hat first got me tearing through the books was wanting to find out what had happened to bran after the fall, but the show spent the time they should have spent building bran love on arya while she really could have waited on epp 2

Bran has four scenes where he's featured prominently, PRIOR to the fall scene:

- the archery scene at the beginning
- his (brief) talk with Ned after the beheading
- the Direwolf discovery scene
- pre-Robert's arrival climbing and interacting with Cat

Then, at the beginning of the final scene, he sees his father off to hunt in a very cute bit.

In fact, he probably gets the most face time of any of the Stark children in the first episode. More than enough time IMHO to build up Bran love. The non-readers I'm aware of were properly shocked regarding Bran and are itching to know his fate.

#90 Snow White

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:43 PM

Between Tysha and Shae, it's implied that Tyrion goes through any number of whores without forming any real relationship or being dedicated to just one of them at a time.


He goes through any number of whores, but always serially. While he's with one (for whatever amount of time he decides is appropriate) he's very loyal, and expects the same from the whore in question.

Recall the instructions he gives to Shae once he takes her on.

的 am a Lannister. Gold I have in plenty, and you値l find me generous... but I値l want more from you than what you致e got between your legs, though I値l want that too. You値l share my tent, pour my wine, laugh at my jests, rub the ache from my legs after each day痴 ride... and whether I keep you a day or a year, for so long as we are together you will take no other men into your bed.



#91 Eponine

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:51 PM

We have no idea whether he's loyal when he's been with a whore in the past.

Just because he tells Shae that she'll take no other men into her bed doesn't mean that he intended at that point to do the same. He does take her on as a personal companion as well, but the mentions of how he frequents multiple whorehouses at other times doesn't necessitate that every woman he's been with has also been a personal companion or that he's never returned to one before employing the services of the next.

#92 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:55 PM

Yes, Bran does get the most time of the children and I think Arya gets the least amount of time since she hardly gets to speak. I'm not counting Rickon.

As for Tyrion's whores, when he takes Shae into service he is riding with an army. There won't be many quality girls around at all and even the bad-looking ones will be busy. For all we know the arrangement is just special because he doesn't want to share his whores with a hundred soldiers. In normal cases he can afford to go to the brothels that common soldiers etc can't dream of.

Edited by Tywin's bastard, 19 April 2011 - 01:59 PM.


#93 Abaddon

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:24 PM

In fact, he probably gets the most face time of any of the Stark children in the first episode. More than enough time IMHO to build up Bran love. The non-readers I'm aware of were properly shocked regarding Bran and are itching to know his fate.

For that matter -- so are the readers! It's been a long time since a A Storm Of Swords... waiting a week is nothing in comparison with that /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.

Luckily, we can all enjoy watching Game Of Thrones and then it will be a relatively short wait until July 12th.

#94 Ferrum Aeternum

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:36 PM

For that matter -- so are the readers! It's been a long time since a A Storm Of Swords... waiting a week is nothing in comparison with that /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.

Luckily, we can all enjoy watching Game Of Thrones and then it will be a relatively short wait until July 12th.

Ha, good point! /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#95 All-for-Joffrey

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:57 PM

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but rather than nitpicking about minor detail changes, I would like to praise a minor addition. I like how they included a brief scene with Cat brushing Sansa's hair. In the 2nd or 3rd book when Cat is reminiscing/grieving, she reflects on how she used to like to send the maid away so she could brush Sansa's beautiful hair herself. I think the producers have a very keen eye for detail on the show, understand the nuances of the books well (well, mostly) and know what they're doing when they're changing/adding/subtracting things.

Edited by All-for-Joffrey, 19 April 2011 - 03:58 PM.


#96 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:36 PM

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but rather than nitpicking about minor detail changes, I would like to praise a minor addition. I like how they included a brief scene with Cat brushing Sansa's hair. In the 2nd or 3rd book when Cat is reminiscing/grieving, she reflects on how she used to like to send the maid away so she could brush Sansa's beautiful hair herself. I think the producers have a very keen eye for detail on the show, understand the nuances of the books well (well, mostly) and know what they're doing when they're changing/adding/subtracting things.

Very well spotted. I had forgotten that part of Cat's memory reflections but when you mention it it's coming back. These are the most interesting kind of things to notice in my opinion, where they've changed things and managed to add things from the books that couldn't have been shown otherwise.

#97 Snow White

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 06:16 PM

We have no idea whether he's loyal when he's been with a whore in the past.

Just because he tells Shae that she'll take no other men into her bed doesn't mean that he intended at that point to do the same.


It's not explicit, but he's quite resistant to the other whores in Shae's whorehouse hideaway.

I didn't say he treats every whore like Shae, I said he appears to be loyal (exclusive might be a better word) for whatever amount of time he decides is appropriate. Clearly that's often an hour or a night. He's promiscuous, but serially.

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but rather than nitpicking about minor detail changes, I would like to praise a minor addition. I like how they included a brief scene with Cat brushing Sansa's hair. In the 2nd or 3rd book when Cat is reminiscing/grieving, she reflects on how she used to like to send the maid away so she could brush Sansa's beautiful hair herself. I think the producers have a very keen eye for detail on the show, understand the nuances of the books well (well, mostly) and know what they're doing when they're changing/adding/subtracting things.


Oh, nice catch.

#98 Lyri

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 06:18 PM

His relationship with Shae WAS unusual.

Between Tysha and Shae, it's implied that Tyrion goes through any number of whores without forming any real relationship or being dedicated to just one of them at a time.

He doesn't seek out Shae as a longtime companion - he sends Bronn to find a random pretty camp follower and comments that he'd told Bronn to warn the girl he found because "there was a look the girls got in their eyes sometimes when they first beheld the lordling they'd been hired to pleasure". In other words, he's hired a lot of whores, but he falls for Shae because she's so good at faking love for him. This really wouldn't contradict the image of him cavorting with multiple whores before he meets Shae.


First off, a big hello to everyone. I am a newbie here and this is my first post. Tyrion is by far my favorite character, and I really wanted to jump into this discussion because I also viewed the brothel/orgy scene to be out of character for Tyrion. I would not argue against Tyrion having hired any number of prostitutes in the past, but I've always seen him as having hired one at a time. It has always seemed clear to me that Tyrion is looking for more than just a sex act from those women; he's looking to simulate intimacy with a woman. My apologies if this post comes across as a little psych 101-ish.

Most of Tyrion's life seems to have been devoid of true intimacy, growing up without a mother, with a father who is ashamed and contemptuous of him and a sister who is disgusted by him. He is not only a dwarf, he is also butt-ugly. Even backed by Lannister gold, I doubt he's spent much, if any time wooing noble daughters, flirting or pursuing a normal, healthy relationship. I imagine Sansa's reaction to him is probably pretty par for his course. So what's a rich, ugly dwarf to do? Use that Lannister gold to pay prostitutes to play the part- not just sex, but the whole "be there for me when I come home, ask me how my day was, wifely act." And I imagine he's done it again and again, almost a fetish in a way.

So anyways, without going on ad nauseum, you probably get where I'm coming from and how I'm reading Tyrion. Seeing the HBO show throw a gaggle of whores at Tyrion made me a little sad to realize how darn much of his depth and nuance is going to go awol in the show. Particularly since that was Tyrion's intro to the TV audience. I've read a number of reviews that basically assumed Tyrion was the "drunk, lecherous whoremonger" who will be there to provide comic relief. *cry* Tyrion is much more about pathos than comedy, and I'm hoping that gets developed.

Thanks for letting me ramble. Carry on /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#99 RemitMan

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 08:51 PM

Very, very nice overall. Even with all the nudity, I still think that there was more in the book (ie. Catelyn).

I kind of wish that Catelyn was still the one that convinces Eddard to go south.

Also, I'm really disappointed that Drogo wasn't gentle and kind with Dany.

http://asoiaf.ovrnit...thrones-s01e01/

#100 slweal

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 08:52 PM

Is it just me or was the scene with Cersei and Jaime at Jon Arryn's funeral (thing) discussing what he knew added?

I love Lend Headey but I still don't see her as Cersei.