The Official Tyrion Lannister appreciation thread

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

First order of business. This is a Tryion appreciation thread, not a Sandor appreciation thread, though all friendly and civil posters and all friendly and civil comparisons are welcome! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Tyrion: One of the most moral characters in the series? Check!

A true friend to anyone who has earned his loyalty? Check!

A rapist? Unclear. Must wait for Tysha's testimony.

A murderer? Sadly yes... Shae, poor girl. :( :thumbsdown: Not cool Tyrion!

Kinslayer? Certainly! But, can you blame him so much?

Kingslayer? Certainly not!

what else, what else...? more to come.....

[only me]

One of the shortest characters in the series? Check!

Creative, smart, witty? Check! Check! Check!

Good observant? Check!

Brave? Check!

Black sheep of the family? Check!

Not ashamed of his sexuality! Check!

Generous? Check! (A Lannister always pays his debt)

A survivor? Check!

[mediocre cheese]

A rapist? Unclear. Must wait for Tysha's testimony.

That slavegirl in selhorys would say otherwise, but if she tried to he'd "shove her legs apart, crawl between them, and taker her once more. That much she could comprehend at least."

[Woman of War]

I like the character Tyrion for being a truly creatively invented literary character, rather unique, so many issues in one person:

The despiced cripple, loaded with superstitions and hatred by his environment, given the story timesetting

The hated child, horribly damaged and abused by his own father

The man who has committed some murders, who is loaded with the curse kinslayer

The intellectual who is able to give us readers insight into how Westerosi society and history works, to mediate between us and the author's ideas

The cunning politician with so many possibilities in the storyline

The sexually deeply disturbed personality and abused child, full of self-loathing and a totally damaged and unrealistic image of of himself, in positive as in negative sense

The hugely entertaining and funny guy who on the other hand has serious trouble with socially adequate behaviour and alcohol

The man craving for recognition, acceptance and love, doing his best to destroy all of that if he might get close to it thus self-fulfiiling the prophecy that he will never achieve it

And I do not believe that Tyrion is that born comedian. He has a good sense of humour and he is bright and knows how to get what he wants. If he has to humiliate himself by playing the fool he'll do so - the others will take him for one anyway. Tyrion may be clever but is no more born "funny" and a court fool than Jewish people are born "good with money" - there was no other way for them in society.( stop, this is neither pro- nor antisemitic, I have Jewish family myself and am proud of it, no topic here )

In short, Tyrion is the most interesting morally ambigous character, so much more fascinating than a onedimensional good or bad person.

[Whatever]

can I post here explaining WHY i DON'T like him, or would that be off topic?

[only me]

Kinslayer? Certainly! But, can you blame him so much?

I think he should not have done that.

Also, when Genna tells Jaime that "Tyrion is Tywins son, not you." Does she mean that Tyrion has his father brains, vision, eye for politics but also his hunger for power, ruthlessness and bigotry?

Neither of them can get over pain, humiliation and grief: Tywin/Jonna, Tyrion/Tysha, Tywin/Tyrion

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

can I post here explaining WHY i DON'T like him, or it would be off topic?

yes. i apologize. maybe i was a bit harsh on the Arys Oakheart page. your point is taken. you are welcome on both this Tyrion page and the Arys page. :) just no over the top vulgarity, please... all intelligent and fun (and funny) arguments welcome.... as you can tell, i really like arys and tyrion (and brienne and arya and sansa and king jon !!!)

[Whatever]

yes. i apologize. maybe i was a bit harsh on the arys oakheart page. your point is taken. you are welcome one both pages. :)

ahah I haven't read the AO thread anymore. and I actually like him. I just thought it was weird, since most people find him boring :)

Anyway, thank you! Long, long post to come :)

[Woman of War]

looking forward to it. Be prepared for an answer in lousy English! B)

[Spring Bass]

You can still appreciate Tyrion as a character, even if you don't like him as a (fictional) person. I think Tyrion uses quips and biting humor to cut people down, but that doesn't mean his quips often aren't true and/or funny.

[JKeats]

Tyrion is the single best character in ASOIAF. That's a whole lot to appreciate, but it won't matter. This thread is doomed.

[Erinne]

Just in case anyone's interested, here's a link to the first Tyrion appreciation thread.

And I've just got to say that, although I like Tyrion, I wouldn't claim he's one of the most moral characters in the series. Not by a long shot.

[Brandon Baratheon.]

Tyrion is an absolute beast, i love reading his chapters. I'm approaching the battle of the blackwater again, wooopaa. :)

[Whatever]

Okay, where do I start?

I dislike Tyrion. Actually I think he's the character I dislike the most, and probably the most overrated character in ASOIAF.

The reason is simple. First, I don't like him as a person (not as a character - I like how he's written). Second, I hate how everybody, keeps thinking that Tyrion is an incredibly awsome person, when he's pretty horrible. As I'm known to say on those board, being witty and fun can't be an excuse for being a dick.

When I started reading ASOIAF, I kinda liked Tyrion's devil-may-care attitude. As I keep reading, I realized how much this wasn't real and how great of an hypocrite Tyrion is, since he keeps finding excuses for all the wrong he does.

Yes, he's a dwarf and his daddy hates him. is this an excuse for Tyrion's crimes and pathetic self-pity? I really don't think so.

I'm not talking about Tywin'd death, which is IMO the best thing Tyrion has ever done. I'm talking about Tyrion basically being a jerk. He likes to have people scared and threatened because he likes to feel "important" and not just "the imp". This is mean and useless, done for the only purpose of making Tyrion feel better. Well, we see how well this works with Cersei in Clash. What an utterly stupid thing to do.

He doesn't do much more, really. His only purpose in Storm is to be our KL POV, and he spends all his time falling in love with his own delusion, and killing Shae when he realizes his dream was that - just a dream.

And don't make me start with the whole Tysha story. yes, Tywin is a shitty dad, we all got this. But this is not the point. The point is that he took part in the gang-rape of his 13-years-old wife. And he doesn't feel sorry for it. He blames Tywin, Jaime, the gods, everybody else except himself. This is what i call being a delusional hypocrite. It actually amuses me - how Tyrion keep thinking of finding Tysha. Like if she would ever want to see him again.

Tyrion is the single best character in ASOIAF. That's a whole lot to appreciate, but it won't matter. This thread is doomed.

Why? Because he's funny?

You can still appreciate Tyrion as a character, even if you don't like him as a (fictional) person. I think Tyrion uses quips and biting humor to cut people down, but that doesn't mean his quips often aren't true and/or funny.

I actually find rather funny how Tyrion spends time being snarky and noticing other people's flaws, but never his own

[Toro]

A soft spot for cripples and broken things.

Kindness is relative. Tyrion is the character from which we see the most spontaneous acts of kindness and decency. From his friendship with Jon Snow, to his designing a saddle for bran, slapping Joffrey for not expressing his regrets, stopping Sansa from being beaten, even his treatment of Shae.

He's a crippled, deformed dwarf, from one of the most ruthless Houses in Westeros, given an almost impossible task with little help to which he responds heroically and receives no thanks. From him the acts of kindness mean more than they would from say, Margaery Tyrell. The acts of bravery more than his brother. Who expects a dwarf to be brave? Who expects a Lannister to be kind?

Plus anyone that rides with Shagga is good with me.

[1234567]

Plus anyone that rides with Shagga is good with me.

But Shagga's a murderer and rapist!

Anyway I would agree that in the first two and books there are a lot of moments where Tyrion is an extremely decent person compared to the rest of his family. He also gets many of the best lines and the most engaging part of the story. I actually liked his ADWD chapters. I also think he did try and do his best for Penny and Jorah. He is capable of being kind to people. His treatment of Shae was not pleasant though. He stole back the items he had paid her with, which were hers, she had after all earned them. He also hit her and wanted to know nothing about her as a person. He had the singer she was friends with killed and made her become a maid to his wife. Anyway not to derail, but I think there are many good points to Tyrion as a person, but they are far out weighed by the bad ones.

However in terms of narrative, his chapters are always gripping.

NB: I actually think Davos wins the best person in the series award in terms of decency though and there are several other characters I would put ahead of Tyrion on that front as well.

[Whatever]

Kindness is relative. Tyrion is the character from which we see the most spontaneous acts of kindness and decency. From his friendship with Jon Snow, to his designing a saddle for bran, slapping Joffrey for not expressing his regrets, stopping Sansa from being beaten, even his treatment of Shae.

He's a crippled, deformed dwarf, from one of the most ruthless Houses in Westeros, given an almost impossible task with little help to which he responds heroically and receives no thanks. From him the acts of kindness mean more than they would from say, Margaery Tyrell. The acts of bravery more than his brother. Who expects a dwarf to be brave? Who expects a Lannister to be kind?

So, if you're from a horrible family and you're slighly less horrible you are a good person? Theon Greyjoy is a saint then.

If nobody thanks you, than you're a good person? I'd say that Jeor Mormont his Westeros's biggest hero then. Nobody gave a shit about him.

Anyway, I think that AGOT!Tyrion is completely different from the Tyrion we know after he got appointed hand. he used to be a better person, IMO.

As I said, the fact that he's a dwarf isn't an excuse. People are always saying how emo Jon's behavior is, because he's all angsty about being a bastard, Well, tyrion's a LOT worse. His treatment of Shae wasn't kind, but HORRIBLE. He thought he was his maniac pixie dream girl, and then he killed her, for god's sake. how on earth is this KIND? you've got to be kidding me.

[JKeats]

Okay, where do I start?

[etc.]

Why? Because he's funny?

Oh we've been though it so much on these boards. There are a hundred and one threads on Tyrion. Short and to the point then. I think he's smart, funny, complex, conflicted, a good man forced into bad situations, and possessed of a core of empathy for others that has endured quite a battering. And of course there's the great drama of his most earnest longing being forever out of reach.

I don't expect to change anybody's mind about him. Tyrion seems to be one of those characters who nobody can be indifferent to. Those sorts of figures are so polarizing, they more you talk about them the more people become dug in.

-edit-

Also, when I said "single best character" I did not mean nicest or most moral. He's obviously not that. I just mean that he's the center of the ASOIAF narrative. His story is what I want to hear.

[Evamitchelle]

A soft spot for cripples and broken things.

Kindness is relative. Tyrion is the character from which we see the most spontaneous acts of kindness and decency. From his friendship with Jon Snow, to his designing a saddle for bran, slapping Joffrey for not expressing his regrets, stopping Sansa from being beaten, even his treatment of Shae.

He's a crippled, deformed dwarf, from one of the most ruthless Houses in Westeros, given an almost impossible task with little help to which he responds heroically and receives no thanks. From him the acts of kindness mean more than they would from say, Margaery Tyrell. The acts of bravery more than his brother. Who expects a dwarf to be brave? Who expects a Lannister to be kind?

Plus anyone that rides with Shagga is good with me.

While I agree that some acts of kindness mean more depending from whom they're from, Tyrion is still the son of the richest, most powerful families in the Seven Kingdoms even if he's ridiculed for being a dwarf. He can afford to be kind if he wants to. Davos for example comes from the depths of Flea Bottom, where people have to choose between starving to death or eating human-flesh stews, yet still managed to turn into a really decent human being. Like Rapsie, I think he is the most moral character of the series, and the one who shows the "most spontaneous acts of kindness and decency". I find some of Tyrion's acts of kindness self-serving in some way actually : he stops Sansa's beating because he's worried about what will happen to Jaime for example. I don't see how slapping someone is an act of kindness, no matter who's on the receiving end, and his treatment of Shae was definitely not kind (murdering someone isn't really nice for starters). Designing Bran's saddle was definitely kind and unexpected, but it's more the exception than the rule in Tyrion's case.

For me some of the most "spontaneous acts of kindness and decency" would be Sansa speaking out for Dontos while a hostage, Davos asking Stannis to spare Claw's Isle despite being just out of his cell and still considered a traitor (and most of his actions really), Jaime saving Brienne from rape while being a prisoner etc. After Tyrion loses his money and status in ADwD he doesn't show much kindness anymore, which is why I wouldn't call him one of the most moral characters of the series.

[mediocre cheese]

a good man forced into bad situations

It amazes me that people say this post DWD. Nobody forced him into the brothel. He went in voluntarily in his words"because "a man grows weary of his fingers" (btw whose doing laundry on the shy maid?). No one forced him to have sex with the prostitute once he saw she was revolted by him and she had whip marks on her back. And no forced him to have sex with her again once she's crying because he vomited on the floor.