How Stannis will gain entrance to Winterfell and sack the castle

[firewareagle]

Then it wouldn't be a deus ex machina...

Yeah, you are right. It is sometimes deemed God's intervention. Like if Aegon the Conqueror suddenly rose out of the grave with his dragons and conquered Winterfell.

[Associate Maester]

It seems many are predicting for Stannis to team up with Manderly, defeat Freys via some sort of land advantage, and deceive Bolton and take winterfell.

Has anyone ever read GRRM to wrap up this nicely before? Are there any precedents for things to work out this properly. Something goes awry, a player makes a different move, things happen unexpectedly, people die, justice is given out to those that deserve punishment via indirect means, the favorable camp usually comes out dead.

I doubt Stannis will win Winterfell. Though his actions may later lead to Bolton's loosing winterfell and their lives.

You have to keep in mind Stannis is three days from Winterfell, he's snowed in. His army is dwindling. His supplies is dwindling. I don't see a chance for him to take Winterfell.

I take it you haven't read the gift chapter from TWOW? Many of us are expecting Stannis to pull a Alexander Nevsky.

[Kurhill]

I take it you haven't read the gift chapter from TWOW? Many of us are expecting Stannis to pull a Alexander Nevsky.

I always thought it will be more like a reenactment of Battle of Towton.

[firewareagle]

I take it you haven't read the gift chapter from TWOW? Many of us are expecting Stannis to pull a Alexander Nevsky.

I have read it, though it doesn't make me believe that Stannis in the end will prevail over the Boltons. Even if he does win against the Freys, it is no bearing on his fight against Stannis unless he does use some sort of deceit to get access in Winterfell. Otherwise doom.

[Crown]

I have read it, though it doesn't make me believe that Stannis in the end will prevail over the Boltons. Even if he does win against the Freys, it is no bearing on his fight against Stannis unless he does use some sort of deceit to get access in Winterfell. Otherwise doom.

He will win. He got most northern houses behind him (and maybe even a wildling army, willing to save Mance), including the Manderly's and maybe the Dustins on the inside.

[bemused]

I'm in pretty close agreement with Free Northman on this .

I also expect WF to be taken by a Northern force entering through the crypts. I have my favourite , or most likely candidates for who would be involved with this ( as I've said ) , but GRRM has lots of characters to play with , and there's plenty of room for surprises.

I highly doubt it would be Stannis though. No crypts for him.

I think Stannis will win his battle, and put a "Trojan horse" plan into action to take WF... only to find the Northerners there before him. This would be far from a neat wrap-up for Stannis.. ;) He wanted clear control of the North and the best he can hope for in this type of scenario is the North making common cause ... so long as it agrees with their agenda .

If the North survives ,Lady Dustin will go down in story and song as a great heroine. She's been playing a deep and dangerous game with Roose.

I think the Northern resistance was already formed , or forming , independent of Stannis deciding to move against the Boltons, and we know some in the North have always known that Bran and Rickon survived. But it takes time to put out feelers,find out who can be trusted absolutely , etc., etc. Word would not pass by raven , since not everyone has a maester , and as we know through Lady Barbrey and other examples , not all maesters can be trusted.

( On a side note, though , regardless of what she says to Theon, I think some can be trusted .. e.g. Luwin , Cressen ... even by Lady Barbrey. Following her clue about Maester's names, I wonder about the three maesters with Roose in WF. I haven't done a lot of checking yet , but the Hornwood maester ,who is old and therefore probably in service to the Hornwoods for a long time , is named Rhodry , R names are very common among the Ryswells , and I wonder if he and Barbrey are not somehow related , and what loyalty may exist there. Even while posing as a Bolton ally, Lady Dustin lets her outrage at Lady Hornwood's treatment be known.. I might wonder if even her observations about maesters and the citadel might be informed by him..)

I don't have more time , now.

[gougef]

....I think the Northern resistance was already formed , or forming , independent of Stannis deciding to move against the Boltons, and we know some in the North have always known that Bran and Rickon survived.....

Manderly been planning something big for awhile.

[HopeForSpring]

I really don't want Stannis to get control of Winterfell. Don't get me wrong. I don't like the Boltons better, but I really don't want Stannis and his R'Hllor heads to cut down the Weirwood trees.

I'd like to think he wouldn't because Mel isn't there and all the Norther Lords would get pissed but he might go all "Stannis" on them and tell them it is his way or they can go back out in the snow.

I want Manderly in charge of Winterfell for now.

[bent branch]

I don't think Stannis is going to try to take charge of Winterfell. I think he will do what he did with Deepwood Motte. He will kick out the "squatters" and return the rightful lord. I think he will follow the guidance of the northerners in deciding who that will be.

[Crown]

I really don't want Stannis to get control of Winterfell. Don't get me wrong. I don't like the Boltons better, but I really don't want Stannis and his R'Hllor heads to cut down the Weirwood trees.

I'd like to think he wouldn't because Mel isn't there and all the Norther Lords would get pissed but he might go all "Stannis" on them and tell them it is his way or they can go back out in the snow.

I want Manderly in charge of Winterfell for now.

Rickon will return to rule Winterfell, don't forget him.

EDIT: Or Sansa...

[Frey Pie]

I really don't want Stannis to get control of Winterfell. Don't get me wrong. I don't like the Boltons better, but I really don't want Stannis and his R'Hllor heads to cut down the Weirwood trees.

I'd like to think he wouldn't because Mel isn't there and all the Norther Lords would get pissed but he might go all "Stannis" on them and tell them it is his way or they can go back out in the snow.

I want Manderly in charge of Winterfell for now.

The weirwoods of WF wont be cut down by Stannis. Hes not stupid and thats one sure way to put the North against him. He doesnt want the North, just to rule it from afar like his brother did. As George said in his latest interview-not just anyone can rule the north

[HopeForSpring]

I hope you all are right. Even I find it bizarre that what I'm most worried about in that battle is survival of a that tree. For some reason it won't be a happy ending for me unless that specific weirwood somehow lives forever. It's kind of all I need. It's odd I know.

Otherwise I'm delighted by the idea of a cage match between Stannis and the Boltons.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, Dying Time is Here.

ETA: (That's a link to the Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome Trailer, btw)

[Crown]

I hope you all are right. Even I find it bizarre that what I'm most worried about in that battle is survival of a that tree. For some reason it won't be a happy ending for me unless that specific weirwood somehow lives forever. It's kind of all I need. It's odd I know.

Otherwise I'm delighted by the idea of a cage match between Stannis and the Boltons.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, Dying Time is Here.

ETA: (That's a link to the Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome Trailer, btw)

The tree will the connection to Bran. We're going to get a Harry Potter-esque scene with Sirius in the fire.

[The King of Worms]

So after reading the first Theon chapter a few things came to mind.

- The Freys and Manderlys are out of Winterfell to get after Stannis.

- There has been a good amount of time between the last Davos chapter and the scene in TWoW. Since that Davos scene, Davos has finally made it to where Rickan is and has got a hold of him. He has finally sent word to Manderly to tell him of the good news.

- Stannis and his menset up traps using the frozen lake somehow and have a great trap set for those pesky mother f****** Freys and they get destroyed. Manderly kneels for Stannis and offers his arms to sack Winterfell.

- Upon return to Winterfell it will be Manderlys men and the Frey coming back with a glorious defeat of Stannis. It will appear this way to all of Boltons unsuspecting men, once the main force return into the 2nd wall of the castle Boltons men realize what happened and are attacked from inside. The northmen that have sided with Bolton see that the Freys have been slaughter and join the ranks of manderly and stannis to further avenge the murders at the Red Wedding. With Rickan being in play now, he will become the eventual Ward of the North.

thoughts?

Definitely think that the Pink Letter is genuine from Ramsay. Ramsay is responding to the fake news of Stannis's defeat and death on the Ice Lake, with his sword fake-Lightbringer as the ultimate proof.

This could mean that Ramsay has captured Mance, but I don't think so. I think Mance is forced to flee into the crypts like the Bael the Bard story.

I know there is a scene in Game of Thrones that describes Bran running through secret tunnels under Winterfell's walls from the (Godswood..?) and emerging outside of them .? If this is true, then it may be a tunnel that back in the day Brandon Stark used to sneak his little girlfriend Lady Dustin in to Winterfell where he took her virginity in the crypts. So it could be her conspiring with other Northmen from outside the Walls.

It may be that Stannis doesn't know about this tunnel yet, but Bran will send the knowledge to Theon in a dream. He may use this knowledge with Stannis to survive just a bit longer... (WAIT! Theon shouted cravenly in tears. I know the way in! I know the way INSIDE Winterfell!...And the boys! The boys aren't dead... I know where they are).

This fits Theon as The Broken Man character totally. You think he's becoming whole again, but when he sees the fires, or the Sword, he cravenly breaks, and gives up any knowledge that might save his life. Theon is saved by Bran, and turns his cloak one last time to survive yet again. Fits GrrM. That Theon and Bran are the ones who lead the way to Ramsay's death is also fitting.

Or Stannis doesn't need Theon. He takes Winterfell with Lady Dustin and Manderly's help, and sacrifices him to Winterfell's tree with Lightbringer. The death of the Turncloak.

[Crown]

Definitely think that the Pink Letter is genuine from Ramsay. Ramsay is responding to the fake news of Stannis's defeat and death on the Ice Lake, with his sword fake-Lightbringer as the ultimate proof.

This could mean that Ramsay has captured Mance, but I don't think so. I think Mance is forced to flee into the crypts like the Bael the Bard story.

I know there is a scene in Game of Thrones that describes Bran running through secret tunnels under Winterfell's walls from the (Godswood..?) and emerging outside of them .? If this is true, then it may be a tunnel that back in the day Brandon Stark used to sneak his little girlfriend Lady Dustin in to Winterfell where he took her virginity in the crypts. So it could be her conspiring with other Northmen from outside the Walls.

It may be that Stannis doesn't know about this tunnel yet, but Bran will send the knowledge to Theon in a dream. He may use this knowledge with Stannis to survive just a bit longer... (WAIT! Theon shouted cravenly in tears. I know the way in! I know the way INSIDE Winterfell!...And the boys! The boys aren't dead... I know where they are).

This fits Theon as The Broken Man character totally. You think he's becoming whole again, but when he sees the fires, or the Sword, he cravenly breaks, and gives up any knowledge that might save his life. Theon is saved by Bran, and turns his cloak one last time to survive yet again. Fits GrrM. That Theon and Bran are the ones who lead the way to Ramsay's death is also fitting.

Or Stannis doesn't need Theon. He takes Winterfell with Lady Dustin and Manderly's help, and sacrifices him to Winterfell's tree with Lightbringer. The death of the Turncloak.

Imagine Alfie Allen doing that on screen. Pure gold.

[dragsaw]

Same as theon?, or have some men go over and open the gates?

[aryagonnakill]

Definitely think that the Pink Letter is genuine from Ramsay. Ramsay is responding to the fake news of Stannis's defeat and death on the Ice Lake, with his sword fake-Lightbringer as the ultimate proof.

This could mean that Ramsay has captured Mance, but I don't think so. I think Mance is forced to flee into the crypts like the Bael the Bard story.

I know there is a scene in Game of Thrones that describes Bran running through secret tunnels under Winterfell's walls from the (Godswood..?) and emerging outside of them .? If this is true, then it may be a tunnel that back in the day Brandon Stark used to sneak his little girlfriend Lady Dustin in to Winterfell where he took her virginity in the crypts. So it could be her conspiring with other Northmen from outside the Walls.

It may be that Stannis doesn't know about this tunnel yet, but Bran will send the knowledge to Theon in a dream. He may use this knowledge with Stannis to survive just a bit longer... (WAIT! Theon shouted cravenly in tears. I know the way in! I know the way INSIDE Winterfell!...And the boys! The boys aren't dead... I know where they are).

This fits Theon as The Broken Man character totally. You think he's becoming whole again, but when he sees the fires, or the Sword, he cravenly breaks, and gives up any knowledge that might save his life. Theon is saved by Bran, and turns his cloak one last time to survive yet again. Fits GrrM. That Theon and Bran are the ones who lead the way to Ramsay's death is also fitting.

Or Stannis doesn't need Theon. He takes Winterfell with Lady Dustin and Manderly's help, and sacrifices him to Winterfell's tree with Lightbringer. The death of the Turncloak.

I've seen many people say something like this but Bran says that he knows a secret to the castle that he is confident even Maester Luwin does not, and that secret passage is from 'Bran knew about that. And he knew you could get inside the inner wall by the south gate, climb, three floors and run all the way around Winterfell through a narrow tunnel in the stone, and then come out on ground level at the north gate, with a hundred feet of wall looming over you." So if Stannis takes that path he has to get in side the first wall.

[bent branch]

I've seen many people say something like this but Bran says that he knows a secret to the castle that he is confident even Maester Luwin does not, and that secret passage is from 'Bran knew about that. And he knew you could get inside the inner wall by the south gate, climb, three floors and run all the way around Winterfell through a narrow tunnel in the stone, and then come out on ground level at the north gate, with a hundred feet of wall looming over you." So if Stannis takes that path he has to get in side the first wall.

Just what I was going to say. This pathway does however let someone move from the south end of Winterfell to the north end without being seen. It is, I think the way a person can get from the great hall to the crypts in relative safety if fighting is going on inside Winterfell.

[LannisterShmannister]

What if Lady Dustin planned on opening a secret exit to the crypts for an outside source when asked by Manderly, but once she got down there she realized the passage was already opened? What if Bran and Rickon, upon their escape, opened the passage by removing the old swords from the crypts? This would explain her mentioning the swords to Theon, and her asking him to keep quiet about it all. After this, the hooded man, expecting the crypts to be opened by Lady Dustin, enters on schedule in the other Theon chapter. Small chance, but I feel like there will be something important from the past that will end up giving Stannis the victory...

Maybe there are hints in the POVs that take place in the crypts from the previous books.

[kissdbyfire]

I think Bran might skinchange into Theon when he’s brought before the weirwood. Here's why.

Bran knows the secret ways of Winterfell better than anyone.

AGoT, chapter 8, Bran II:

“When he got out from under it and scrambled up near the sky, Bran could see all of Winterfell in a glance. He liked the way it looked, spread out beneath him, only birds wheeling over his head while all the life of the castle went on below. Bran could perch for hours among the shapeless, rain-worn gargoyles that brooded over the First Keep, watching it all: the men drilling with wood and steel in the yard, the cooks tending their vegetables in the glass garden, restless dogs running back and forth in the kennels, the silence of the godswood, the girls gossiping beside the washing well. It made him feel like he was lord of the castle, in a way even Robb would never know.

It taught him Winterfell’s secrets too. The builders had not even leveled the earth; there were hills and valleys behind the walls of Winterfell. There was a covered bridge that went from the fourth floor of the bell tower across to the second floor of the rookery. Bran knew about that. And he knew you could get inside the inner wall by the south gate, climb three floors and run all the way around Winterfell through a narrow tunnel in the stone, and then come out on ground level at the north gate, with a hundred feet of wall looming over you. Even Maester Luwin didn’t know that, Bran was convinced.”

We know that dogs are the easiest animals to skinchange into.

ADwD, Prologue

Dogs were the easiest beasts to bond with; they lived so close to men that they were almost human. Slipping into a dog’s skin was like putting on an old boot, its leather softened by wear. As a boot was shaped to accept a foot, a dog was shaped to accept a collar, even a collar no human eye could see. Wolves were harder.

And Theon is presented to us, time and again, as a dog. This point is driven home throughout Dance.

ADwD, Reek II

Lord Ramsay laughed. “You’re not a man, Reek. You’re just my creature. You’ll have your wine, though. Walder, see to it. And fear not, I won’t return you to the dungeons, you have my word as a Bolton. We’ll make a dog of you instead. Meat every day, and I’ll even leave you teeth enough to eat it. You can sleep beside my girls. Ben, do you have a collar for him?”

ADwD, Reek II

Farther back came the baggage train—lumbering wayns laden with provisions and loot taken in the war, and carts crowded with wounded men and cripples. And at the rear, more Freys. At least a thousand, maybe more: bowmen, spearmen, peasants armed with scythes and sharpened sticks, freeriders and mounted archers, and another hundred knights to stiffen them.

Collared and chained and back in rags again, Reek followed with the other dogs at Lord Ramsay’s heels when his lordship strode forth to greet his father.

The way I see it, there is an awful lot of emphasis on Theon becoming a dog; we know Bran can skinchange into Hodor and use the weirnet; we know Theon is broken and guilt-ridden, possibly willing to do anything he can to atone to his betrayal; and he’s very likely going to be brought before a weirwood.