Arya / No One / and the Water Motif in Braavos

[ARYa_Nym]

To continue on with Nymeria being called a hellbitch. The subject of hellhounds:

Hellhounds often have glowing yellow eyes.

They are often assigned to guard the entrances to the world of the dead, such as graveyards and burial grounds, or undertake other duties related to the afterlife or the supernatural, such as hunting lost souls or guarding a supernatural treasure. In European legends, seeing a hellhound or hearing it howl may be either an omen of death or even a cause of death.

There is one that guards the river Styx to prevent escape.

Cerberus Greek and Roman mythology, is a multi-headed hound (usually three-headed)^[1][3][4] which guards the gates of the Underworld, to prevent those who have crossed the river Styx from ever escaping.

Cerberus brought the souls of the dead and/or dying to Hades.

In Welsh mythology and folklore, Cŵn Annwn ( /ˌkuːn ˈænʊn/; "hounds of Annwn") were the spectral hounds of Annwn, the otherworld of Welsh myth. They were associated with a form of the Wild Hunt,...

Christians came to dub these mythical creatures as "The Hounds of Hell" or "Dogs of Hell" and theorized they were therefore owned by Satan.^[4][5] However, the Annwn of medieval Welsh tradition is an otherworldly paradise and not a hell or abode of dead souls.

Some mythology has them chasing the unbaptized so those who haven't been cleansed by water.

In certain parts of Britain, the hunt is said to be that of hell-hounds chasing sinners or the unbaptized.

Norse mythology has Gamr the dog of Hel who I have compared to Arya in the past.

Garmr is a black dog from Norse mythology that guards the gates of the underworld and plays a role in Ragnarok; he (sometimes quoted as a she, actually) is Hel’s pet and guardian of Helheim where she resides. Garmr’s howling is used as a sign that Ragnarok (Norse Apocalypse) has begun.

http://popculturemyth.tumblr.com/post/4577796122/hellhounds-black-dogs-there-is-a-huge-variety-of

Hel also has a ship made out of the dead.

The Hel ship Naglfar will become visible in the mist. The wolves Skoll and Manegarm will get closer and closer to Sun and Moon, which they have chased for eons. Fenrir wolf and and the Hel-wolf Garm will break their chains.

http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/mythology.html

Egyptian mythology.

Wepwawet:

Wepwawet originally was seen as a wolf deity, thus the Greek name of Lycopolis, meaning city of wolves, and it is likely the case that Wepwawet was originally just a symbol of the pharaoh, seeking to associate with wolf-like attributes, that later became deified as a mascot to accompany the pharaoh. Likewise, Wepwawet was said to accompany the pharaoh on hunts, in which capacity he was titled (one with) sharp arrow more powerful than the gods.

Over time, the connection to war, and thus to death, led to Wepwawet also being seen as one who opened the ways to, and through, Duat, for the spirits of the dead. Through this, and the similarity of the jackal to the wolf, Wepwawet became associated with Anubis, a deity that was worshiped in Asyut, eventually being considered his son.

In the later Egyptian funerary context, Wepwawet assists at the Opening of the mouth ceremony and guides the deceased into the netherworld.^[2]

So there's a wolf god who was seen as a way for the spirits of the dead to get to the underworld.

Duat (the underworld):

In Egyptian mythology, Duat^{[pronunciation?]} (also Tuat and Tuaut) (also called Akert, Amenthes, or Neter-khertet) is the underworld. The Duat is a vast area under the Earth, connected with Nun, the waters of the primordial abyss

Is connected to water.

The geography of Duat is similar in outline to the world the Egyptians knew. There are realistic features like rivers, islands, fields, lakes, mounds and caverns, along with fantastic lakes of fire, walls of iron and trees of turquoise. In the Book of Two Ways, one of the Coffin Texts, there is even a map-like image of the Duat.^[4]

The Book of the Dead and Coffin Texts were intended to guide people who had recently died through the Duat's dangerous landscape and to a life as an akh or blessed spirit amongst the gods. The dead person must pass a series of gates guarded by dangerous spirits, depicted as human bodies with grotesque heads of animals, insects, torches or knives.^[5

If the deceased successfully passed these unpleasant demons, he or she would reach the Weighing of the Heart. In this ritual, the heart of the deceased was weighed by Anubis, using a feather, representing Ma'at, the goddess of truth and justice. The heart would become out of balance because of failure to follow Ma'at and any hearts heavier or lighter than her feather were rejected and eaten by the Ammit, the Devourer of Souls. Those souls that passed the test would be allowed to travel toward the paradise of Aaru.

Rejected hearts are eaten by Ammit. Arya says that she doesn't have a heart. She only has a hole but at the same time the Ghost of High Heart called her dark heart.

The water is deified as Nu/Nun:

Nu ( /nuː/; "watery one") or Nun ( /nʌn/ or /nuːn/; "inert one") is the deification of the primordial watery abyss in Egyptian mythology. In the Ogdoad cosmogony, the word nu means "abyss".

The Ancient Egyptians envisaged the oceanic abyss of the Nun as surrounding a bubble in which the sphere of life is encapsulated, representing the deepest mystery of their cosmogony.^[1] In Ancient Egyptian creation accounts the original mound of land comes forth from the waters of the Nun.^[2] The Nun is the source of all that appears in a differentiated world, encompassing all aspects of divine and earthly existence. In the Ennead cosmogony Nun is perceived as transcendent at the point of creation alongside Atum the creator god.^[1]

The deity is presented as both male and female so another connection to Arya.

Nu was shown usually as male but also had aspects that could be represented as female or male. Nunet ( /ˈnuːˌnɛt/; also spelt Naunet) is the female aspect, which is the name Nu with a female gender ending. The male aspect, Nun, is written with a male gender ending

In another thread I mentioened how Arya seemed to like that the waif shaved her head.

“The waif shaved her head for her when they took her eyes; a mummer’s cut, she called it, since many mummers did the same so their wigs might fit them better. But it worked for beggars too and helped to keep their heads free from fleas and lice."

The ancient Egyptians also had this practice.

• "...Wigs go back to the 4th century B.C. and the culture of the Egyptians, who shaved their heads so as to remain free of vermin in the hot Egyptian climate." [link] Additionally, the "ancient Egyptians wore them to protect their shaven heads from the sun." [link] In terms of composition, "palm and wool fibres, animal hair and even gold and silver metals were used to show the rank of office held by the wearer - the more elaborate, the higher the office of state." [link]
  

• "The Ancient Egyptians, known for their attention to beauty and cleanliness, used combs and hairpins in their tresses since. Egyptian women believed thick hair was best and used hair extensions and wigs made of real hair or sheep's wool. They even dyed their hair and wigs a variety of colours with blues, greens, blondes and gold colours being among the preferred colours though black wigs hued by indigo were the favorite. Wealthy Egyptians had personal barbers who would come to their homes. They also used cosmetics and body oils." [link]
  

W ild animals and barbarians had hair, not the sophisticated and advanced Egyptian civilization. Being hairless was achieved by shaving, using depilatory creams and rubbing one's hair off with a pumice stone.

Men, women, and even the children of ancient Egypt all shaved their heads bald and wore elaborate specially-made wigs, which were preferred over a natural head of hair for ultimate protection from the sun's harmful solar rays.

http://www.moderngent.com/history_of_shaving/history_of_shaving.php

Evita mentioned how many swimmer like to be as hairless as possible for less water reisistance and that female swimmers often kept their hair short because it's easier to take care of.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

Arya Nym:

Great finds again! Interesting about Cerberus is that he has three heads, like the dragon has three heads. Maybe the direwolves will have three heads as well.

One small side note: Arya hadn't been fasting "broke her fast" just means "had breakfast", for during the night, when you sleep, you fast :)

[evita mgfs]

To continue on with Nymeria being called a hellbitch. The subject of hellhounds:

Hellhounds often have glowing yellow eyes.

There is one that guards the river Styx to prevent escape.

Cerberus brought the souls of the dead and/or dying to Hades.

Some mythology has them chasing the unbaptized so those who haven't been cleansed by water.

SNIP

In another thread I mentioened how Arya seemed to like that the waif shaved her head.

The ancient Egyptians also had this practice.

http://www.moderngen..._of_shaving.php

Evita mentioned how many swimmer like to be as hairless as possible for less water reisistance and that female swimmers often kept their hair short because it's easier to take care of.

:agree: :bowdown: ARYA NYM: So much, so much good tie ins here. The connection to the Egyptians! Dah! :bang: I should have caught that! I directed Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, and before my stint, I saw at least 15 other performances, and in one performance, Joseph and the Egyptians, in general, were bald for that reason. Now, my Joseph had the most beautiful blonde afro you ever saw. he was forbidden to get a hair cut because I thought his blonde hair formed a ring around his head, so it looked like he had a halo.

Also, you mentioned CEREBRUS, one of my favorite mythological creatures. He guarded the gates of Hades, allowing no dead to get out and no living in, unless he took their lives. So - little Arya and Nymeria are like the hellhound. Arya is like a sentinel to the gates of the nightlands, or netherworld, or whatever afterlife the "victim: belongs to just as Nymeria guards her lair and kills all who try to enter, who are not of her pack.

AGAIN, AWESOME FINDS, MY DEAR!!

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

All this talk about Cerberus makes me think that there might be a connection between Arya and Orpheus en Eurydice as well.. Basically by pulling Cat from the water as Nymeria she brought her back to life, but not really..

Poets such as Simonides of Ceos said that Orpheus' music and singing could charm the birds, fish and wild beasts, coax the trees and rocks into dance,^[11] and divert the course of rivers. He was one of the handful of Greek heroes^[12] to visit the Underworld and return; his music and song even had power over Hades.

In a way you could compare this enchanting with song to skinchanging, the CotF are called 'those who sing the song of earth', makes you wonder which other magical powers Arya will master, and whether she might even be able to control the KM and others in the temple of death, like Orpheus 'controlling' Hades.

Strabo mentions that he lived in Pimpleia.^[28] He is also said to have studied in Egypt.^[31]

Arya lives in Westeros, but studies in Braavos.

The main theme of the underworld story: not looking back, is very interesting (I'm not going to try to really fit in Eurydice here), Arya is in a sense in the underworld in the HoB&W, she's not allowed to look back on her past life.

On a side note, this also applies to Dany, trying to get Drogo back, and her adventures in the HotU.

Pausanias writes that Orpheus was buried in Dion and that he met his death there.^[46] He writes that the river Heliconsank underground when the women that killed Orpheus tried to wash off their blood-stained hands in its waters.^[47]

Hmm underground rivers and washing blood of hands.. sounds familiar..

[evita mgfs]

My friends think I'm insane. My secretary just glazes over and stands there while i'm running my mouth at work. at least my eldest son is a literary freak and obsesses with me by phone on occasion. btw, if you haven't seen this, ENJOY! I've seen it a million times, and it still makes me LMAO.

:agree: RAGNAROK: Oh how you made me smile. I will check out the link as well, but I loved the quote you shared as well. I am equally obsessed. :dunce:

I wanted to also remark on the AA discussion. I am still out on this, so I am at a loss as yet who fits this prophecy, and if the prophecy is exact, or the interpretation is inexact. I do not know. But before he died, Maester Aemon acknowledged that he had misread the prophecy. They expected a PRINCE, and for that reason, he had discounted Dany as being a candidate.

Now, I have always seen Maester Aemon as counterpoint to Tiresias, the blind prophet of Thebes, who appears in Homeric myth and epics as well as the Greek tragedies, Sophocles included.

Tiresias could "see" although blind what others could not with "eyes". So, I have always equated Aemon as a blind-prophet sort, so when he concludes that Dany and her Dragons are AA and Lightbringer respectively, I tend to take notice.

Now, I have ready theories where Bran is AA, Davos is AA, Jon is AA, Ned is AA, Brienne is AA, Theon is AA, Jaime is AA, and so on. I think the only ones who are not a potential AA's are, maybe, Yoren, or Biter and Rorge, or Gregor Clegane. [i even think I read a theory where The Hound is AA???]

I agree it is fun to speculate, and for that reason, I am leaning more toward Aemon's conclusion rather than other theories I have read. He was an aged sage, and he knew dragon lore and he is/was a Targ, so he would know, IMO. :dunno:

[evita mgfs]

ARYA AS FISH: APPLICATION OF SYMBOLOGY TO ARYA PART I

“The Symbolic Meaning of Fish”

( http://www.whats-your-sign.com/symbolic-meanings-of-fish.html)

• The symbolic nature of fish is as inseparable from that of WATER as the two are connected in life.
  

IMO, we have proved in this thread Arya’s connection to water in varying degrees. She may prove to have powers that will allow her to warg creatures associated with water, like fish, a mermaid, Casso King of seals, and many others.

We also see Arya as “water” bearer and “wine” server in her duties at Harrenhal and while she is in the service of Him of Many Faces.

• In psychology, water symbolizes the depths of the unconscious, and fish are the "live material from the depths of the personality, relating to fertility and the life-giving powers of the maternal realms within us" (Biederman, 131).
  

We have analyzed Arya in terms of a “saver of lives” but also as a “taker of lives” – this is part of the natural state of water: calm at times, threatening at others. Likewise, Arya has in her powers to give life and to take life.

We have also witnessed Arya’s maternal instincts in her willingness to sacrifice owning a direwolf in order to allow her wolf Nymeria to escape from death and to freedom. Moreover, we see Arya groom her pup, attempting to nurture and protect, all part of the maternal side of our girl.

We also see her protective nature regarding the little orphan girl who clings to her before they are burned out and escape, only to be taken by Lannisters to Harrenhell.

[bTW/ do not know what happened to the child, but Arya tried to protect her]

Also, taking care of the Hound in his time of need speaks to her maternal instincts, even though he was responsible for Mikka’s death and other atrocities she attributed to him, things he even felt guilty about.

• Fish can also be symbolic of the faithful submerged in the waters of life.
  

After surviving on the road, so to speak, Arya treasures her soap and hr, l,uxuries, her soap and her water, for she had to go without on her journey to WF, then the Wall, then, well, you know.

The waters in the HoB&W are death-giving as opposed to life-giving, which again speaks to Arya’s duality and the duality of water in general.

• Yet fish are also cold-blooded, not driven by passion, and often represent such emotionless entities.
  

In order for Arya to fulfill her duties as a faceless assassin, an agent of Him of Many Faces, she must learn to be “cold-blooded” – and do things her normally passionate nature disallows. For example, she trails her hit in advance, and seemingly wishes to justify his death, finding minor failings in his hand gestures and mannerisms. It is almost as though she must justify for herself that her victim is worthy of death.

Cold-blood drives Arya to kill Dareon on behalf of her beloved brother Jon Snow, Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. In Arya’s mind, Dareon is a deserter and deserves the fate of death, a justice her own father delivers to a deserter in Chaoter 2, Bran’s POV, Game of Thrones.

• In Latin Christian symbology, the fish is related to Christ. Jesus told Peter (the first apostle), a fisherman by trade, that he would become a "fisher of men" if he were to follow Christ.
  

In opposition to the Christ myth, Arya too is a fisher of men – she fishes for victims as a servant of Him of Many Faces, and on behalf of this entity, she takes the lives of those deemed worthy to receive the gift of death.

[evita mgfs]

All this talk about Cerberus makes me think that there might be a connection between Arya and Orpheus en Eurydice as well.. Basically by pulling Cat from the water as Nymeria she brought her back to life, but not really..

In a way you could compare this enchanting with song to skinchanging, the CotF are called 'those who sing the song of earth', makes you wonder which other magical powers Arya will master, and whether she might even be able to control the KM and others in the temple of death, like Orpheus 'controlling' Hades.

Arya lives in Westeros, but studies in Braavos.

The main theme of the underworld story: not looking back, is very interesting (I'm not going to try to really fit in Eurydice here), Arya is in a sense in the underworld in the HoB&W, she's not allowed to look back on her past life.

On a side note, this also applies to Dany, trying to get Drogo back, and her adventures in the HotU.

Hmm underground rivers and washing blood of hands.. sounds familiar..

:agree: MANDERLY'S COOK RAT: Congrats. I could not remember either Eurydice or Orpheus to make the connection that you so rightly made.

Moreover, if Kiss'd-by-fire's theory is on point, and Arya becomes Dareon by wearing his boots in order to join the Night's Watch, then she must learn to sing like "honey poured over thunder".

Moreover, if she has an internship with the Mummers of Braavos, she will learn to sing, as well as many other skills associated with theatre arts and performing.

Even though our girl has already assumed many roles, she has much more to learn about theatre, like "special effects", "magic", illusion, and mastering 'staying in character' and learning not to 'drop face'. In this she still needs a bit of fine tuning, as do many actors on stage and in film as well. [ever see a movie where the actor forgets he has an accent halfway through? John Wayne played an Irishman in a movie where he spoke just like John Wayne - whom I love, btw, so No Wayne hate, please].

So if we combine our collective intuition in second-guessing Martin, our little Arya is going to be one busy girl, with warging sea creatures, controlling water, playing a part in a Mummer's show, and masquerading as a man of the NW.

But look at Bran? Symbolically, figuratively, and literally, he is doing much the same thing, albeit he is sedentary.

[ARYa_Nym]

Arya Nym:

Great finds again! Interesting about Cerberus is that he has three heads, like the dragon has three heads. Maybe the direwolves will have three heads as well.

One small side note: Arya hadn't been fasting "broke her fast" just means "had breakfast", for during the night, when you sleep, you fast :)

LOL, I wasn't familiar with that phrase. Thanks! :drunk:

Good points on Orpheus.

In a thread once I said that Catherine the Great could be like Dany (modernizer/reformer) and Arya. I think she also has a bit of Margaery if it's true that Margaery was ambitious. I'm not a huge history buff so I don't know the array of historical figures who could compare to Arya and more specifically on the subject of water.

From Land of the Firebird by Suzanne Massie:

"She despised the frivolous court of Elizabeth. She did not like dancing, had no ear for poetry or music...she could not carry a tune. "

She had to work hard to learn Russian and still spoke with a German accent. Arya still has traces of her Westerosi accent even though for the part she has gotten rid of it.

I also thought that this was like Arya.

"Catherine had always been certain that she was not pretty...She had, by her own description, a mind "infinitely more masculine than feminine."

She also used to spend a lot of time during the day horseback riding.

Catherine was friends with Voltaire and she told him:

"Right now I adore English gardens, curves, gentle slopes, ponds in the form of lakes, archipelagos on dry land, and I have a profound scorn for straight lines, symmetrical avenues. I hate fountains that torture water in order to make it take a course contrary to its nature."

In her conquest she has had associations with water.

In 1768, Catherine's army pushed southwest from the Dnieper River into the Balkans, scoring victories and calling on Christians to join them against the Ottomans. Another Russian force invaded and captured the Crimea. A Russian fleet sailed from the Baltic Sea through the Strait of Gibraltar and into Ottoman waters in the Aegean Sea where, on July 6, 1770, near the island of Chios, they sank the Turkish navy.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h31-gr6c.htm

Her Count Alexei Orlov burned up the Turkish fleet.

“Count Orlov told me…he saw with horror the water of the port of Chesme, which is not very large, the color of blood…”

Russia wanted to increase its naval power.

And there was a desire by the Russians for a warm water port for their ships to move into the Black Sea and the Mediterranean -- essential for the development of Russian trade and naval power….Catherine the Great was ambitious for new territory. Like Peter the Great she wanted to reach a warm water port. She conquered parts of Poland, with Austria and Prussia, but she got the biggest part of Poland. Settlements in Siberia continued under her rule. Catherine wanted glory for herself and for Russia.

Catherine the Great (whose reign began in 1762) achieved more of what Peter had wanted. In the war of 1768-74 she sent Russia's Baltic fleet into the Mediterranean and defeated the Turkish fleet, resulting in the treaty of Kuchuk Kainarji.

Catherine was baptized in the Russian Orthodox Church.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

I found something interesting when I was searching wikipedia for things that resemble 'Nymeria':

Numerius was generally connected with Numeria, the goddess of childbirth, and according to Marcus Terentius Varro was given to children who were born quickly and easily.

In the epitome, De Praenominibus ("Concerning Praenomina"), by Julius Paris, Varro is quoted as stating that the feminine form, Numeria, was not a praenomen, but in this instance Paris indicated that he was mistaken. Numeria is found as a praenomen in inscriptions, including the funerary inscription of Numeria Atilia at Praeneste.^[7][8]

The wolves of the Stark kids are possibly born from their already dead mother.

Sanctuary of Fortuna Primigenia

The temple was redeveloped after 82 BC as a spectacular series of terraces, exedras and porticos on four levels down the hillside, linked by monumental stairs and ramps.

The oldest portion of the primitive sanctuary was situated on the terrace just above the lowest one, in a grotto in the natural rock where there was a spring that developed into a well. As the archaic shrine was elaborated from the 2nd century BC, it was given a colored mosaic pavement representing a seascape: a temple of Poseidon on the shore, with fish of all kinds swimming in the sea.

To the east is an apsidal hall, often identified with the temple itself, in which was found the famous mosaic with scenes from the Nile (The Nile was considered to be a causeway from life to death and the afterlife.), relaid in the Palazzo Barberini-Colonna^[2] in Palestrina on the uppermost terrace (now a National Museum). Under this hall is a chamber, which an inscription on its walls identified as a treasury in the 2nd century BC.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestrina

So we have a temple with many levels, like the HoBW, with depictions of both sea and the Nile, and a well inside. At this temple is an inscription of someone named Numeria.

An even more interesting temple:

Temple of Isis (Pompeii)

Principal devotees of this temple are assumed to be women, freedmen, and slaves.^[1] Initiates of the Isis mystery cult worshipped a compassionate goddess who promised eventual salvation and a perpetual relationship throughout life and after death.^[4] The temple itself was reconstructed in honor of a 6 year-old boy by his freedman father, Numerius, to allow the child to enter elite society.^[1]

Worship of Isis

Isis was a goddess in Ancient Egyptian religious beliefs, whose worship spread throughout the Greco-Roman world. She was worshipped as the ideal mother, wife, the matron of nature and magic. She was the friend of slaves, sinners, artisans, the downtrodden, who also listened to the prayers of the wealthy, maidens, aristocrats and rulers.^[5] Isis worship was concerned about the acquisition of knowledge since knowledge could only be attained from the gifts of the gods.^[6] Priests of Isis typically shaved their heads and wore linen garments rather than wool.^[6] Isis worship did not include a Messianic worldview but it did provide a relationship with the divine that was not ruptured with death.^[7]

The Ekklesiasterian includes scenes of Io's arrival in Egypt and subsequent reception by Isis.^[10] The north wall includes scenes with Io (mythology), Argos, and Hermes. This room itself appears to be the most formal with its role in ritual banquets as well as the reunion of initiates.^[10] The sacraium is even more Egyptian with a mural of snakes guarding a wicker basket adorned with lunar symbols.^[1] This may represent a spring sailing season celebration, navigium Isidis, since Isis restores her husband-brother to life by towing a boat filled with sacred waters.^[1]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Isis_(Pompeii)

A temple for slaves and freedmen (like the Braavosi), with a link to someone called Numerius, lunar symbols and sacred water. death and rebirth.

More on Isis:

She was worshipped as the ideal mother and wife as well as the patroness of nature and magic. She was the friend of slaves, sinners, artisans, and the downtrodden, and she listened to the prayers of the wealthy, maidens, aristocrats, and rulers.^[1] Isis is often depicted as the mother of Horus, the hawk-headed god of war and protection (although in some traditions Horus's mother was Hathor). Isis is also known as protector of the dead and goddess of children.

Isis was instrumental in the resurrection of Osiris when he was murdered by Set. Using her magical skills, she restored his body to life after having gathered the body parts that had been strewn about the earth by Set.^[2]

This myth became very important during the Greco-Roman period. For example it was believed that the Nile River flooded every year because of the tears of sorrow which Isis wept for Osiris.

Due to her attributes as a protector and mother, as well as a lusty aspect gained when she absorbed some aspects of Hathor, she became the patron goddess of sailors, who spread her worship with the trading ships circulating the Mediterranean Sea.

Due to the association between knots and magical power, a symbol of Isis was the tiet or tyet (meaning welfare/life), also called the Knot of Isis, Buckle of Isis, or the Blood of Isis, which is shown to the right. In many respects the tyet resembles an ankh, except that its arms point downward, and when used as such, seems to represent the idea of eternal life or resurrection. The meaning of Blood of Isis is more obscure, but the tyet often was used as a funerary amulet made of red wood, stone, or glass, so this may simply have been a description of the appearance of the materials used.

The star Sopdet (Sirius) is associated with Isis. The appearance of the star signified the advent of a new year and Isis was likewise considered the goddess of rebirth and reincarnation, and as a protector of the dead. The Book of the Dead outlines a particular ritual that would protect the dead, enabling travel anywhere in the underworld, and most of the titles Isis holds signify her as the goddess of protection of the dead.

The Roman writer Apuleius recorded aspects of the cult of Isis in the 2nd century CE in his book The Golden Ass. He describes the Navigium Isidis festival. The following paragraph is particularly significant:

You see me here, Lucius, in answer to your prayer.

I am nature

, the universal Mother, mistress of all the elements, primordial child of time, sovereign of all things spiritual,

queen of the dead, queen of the ocean, queen also of the immortals,

the single manifestation of all gods and goddesses that are, my nod governs the shining heights of Heavens, the wholesome sea breezes. Though I am worshipped in many aspects, known by countless names ... some know me as Juno, some as Bellona ... the Egyptians who excel in ancient learning and worship call me by my true name...Queen Isis.

Again many references to Death, resurrection (like UnCat), nature, and water. Lots of Arya elements.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

Roman perspectives on cults were syncretic, seeing in new deities, merely local aspects of a familiar one. For many Romans, Egyptian Isis was an aspect of Phrygian Cybele, whose orgiastic rites were long-naturalized at Rome, indeed, she was known as Isis of Ten Thousand Names.

Arya of Ten Thousand Names

[ARYa_Nym]

ARYA AS FISH: APPLICATION OF SYMBOLOGY TO ARYA PART I

“The Symbolic Meaning of Fish”

( http://www.whats-you...gs-of-fish.html)

• The symbolic nature of fish is as inseparable from that of WATER as the two are connected in life.
  

IMO, we have proved in this thread Arya’s connection to water in varying degrees. She may prove to have powers that will allow her to warg creatures associated with water, like fish, a mermaid, Casso King of seals, and many others.

We also see Arya as “water” bearer and “wine” server in her duties at Harrenhal and while she is in the service of Him of Many Faces.

• In psychology, water symbolizes the depths of the unconscious, and fish are the "live material from the depths of the personality, relating to fertility and the life-giving powers of the maternal realms within us" (Biederman, 131).
  

We have analyzed Arya in terms of a “saver of lives” but also as a “taker of lives” – this is part of the natural state of water: calm at times, threatening at others. Likewise, Arya has in her powers to give life and to take life.

We have also witnessed Arya’s maternal instincts in her willingness to sacrifice owning a direwolf in order to allow her wolf Nymeria to escape from death and to freedom. Moreover, we see Arya groom her pup, attempting to nurture and protect, all part of the maternal side of our girl.

We also see her protective nature regarding the little orphan girl who clings to her before they are burned out and escape, only to be taken by Lannisters to Harrenhell.

[bTW/ do not know what happened to the child, but Arya tried to protect her]

Also, taking care of the Hound in his time of need speaks to her maternal instincts, even though he was responsible for Mikka’s death and other atrocities she attributed to him, things he even felt guilty about.

• Fish can also be symbolic of the faithful submerged in the waters of life.
  

After surviving on the road, so to speak, Arya treasures her soap and hr, l,uxuries, her soap and her water, for she had to go without on her journey to WF, then the Wall, then, well, you know.

The waters in the HoB&W are death-giving as opposed to life-giving, which again speaks to Arya’s duality and the duality of water in general.

• Yet fish are also cold-blooded, not driven by passion, and often represent such emotionless entities.
  

In order for Arya to fulfill her duties as a faceless assassin, an agent of Him of Many Faces, she must learn to be “cold-blooded” – and do things her normally passionate nature disallows. For example, she trails her hit in advance, and seemingly wishes to justify his death, finding minor failings in his hand gestures and mannerisms. It is almost as though she must justify for herself that her victim is worthy of death.

Cold-blood drives Arya to kill Dareon on behalf of her beloved brother Jon Snow, Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. In Arya’s mind, Dareon is a deserter and deserves the fate of death, a justice her own father delivers to a deserter in Chaoter 2, Bran’s POV, Game of Thrones.

• In Latin Christian symbology, the fish is related to Christ. Jesus told Peter (the first apostle), a fisherman by trade, that he would become a "fisher of men" if he were to follow Christ.
  

In opposition to the Christ myth, Arya too is a fisher of men – she fishes for victims as a servant of Him of Many Faces, and on behalf of this entity, she takes the lives of those deemed worthy to receive the gift of death.

Good point on cold blooded. I think think ties into the water vs. blood in the veins. Arya has a thirst for blood like her uncle Brandon and quite probably Theon the Hungry Wolf. With the FM she has to be indifferent and only want to kill for the purpose of the Many Faced God and ultimately she did heed his wishes by killing the insurance man just because it was requested of her.

As a fisher she also fished her mother out of the waters via Nymeria. Water can be a destructive force but in that instance it led to a rebirth.

[ARYa_Nym]

I found something interesting when I was searching wikipedia for things that resemble 'Nymeria':

The wolves of the Stark kids are possibly born from their already dead mother.

Source: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Palestrina

So we have a temple with many levels, like the HoBW, with depictions of both sea and the Nile, and a well inside. At this temple is an inscription of someone named Numeria.

An even more interesting temple:

Source: http://en.wikipedia...._Isis_(Pompeii)

A temple for slaves and freedmen (like the Braavosi), with a link to someone called Numerius, lunar symbols and sacred water. death and rebirth.

More on Isis:

Again many references to Death, resurrection (like UnCat), nature, and water. Lots of Arya elements.

Thanks for looking this up. I hadn't heard of Numeria before.

I think with a lot of these mythologies even if it's from a different culture there are a lot of reoccurring themes and comparisons between them.

I have to look it up later but the Egyptian moon goddess is Nepthys/Nebhet although Bast is the one who is linked to Diana/Artemis but you did find lunar links to Isis which is good.

Also, on Sailor Moon which I think is inspired by mythology with Prince Endymion and Selene (Serena). She is the moon princess with a cat named Luna. Arya could also be like Sailor Uranus with looking like a boy and a girl.

[Ariane Martell]

sorry I posted something that was already posted

[evita mgfs]

Good point on cold blooded. I think think ties into the water vs. blood in the veins. Arya has a thirst for blood like her uncle Brandon and quite probably Theon the Hungry Wolf. With the FM she has to be indifferent and only want to kill for the purpose of the Many Faced God and ultimately she did heed his wishes by killing the insurance man just because it was requested of her.

As a fisher she also fished her mother out of the waters via Nymeria. Water can be a destructive force but in that instance it led to a rebirth.

:agree: :bowdown: :bowdown: ARYA NYM: I wish you were at my side when I was composing my fish and Arya theory! You always find something enlightening to add! I like the fishing her mother out of the river, poor baby/Nymeria. How much more will she need to endure? Many have said Sansa is the one to watch - that Arya has had her dark, torturing moments already and Sansa needs to endure hers. Well, I think what Sansa has been through is tantamount to Arya, but in markedly different ways.

But that's for another thread! Nevertheless, ALL the Stark kiddoes have suffered enough, and we do not have scales to weigh and measure who has endured the worst. Sansa and Bran and even Jon had dreams of grandeur. Fortunately, Arya really did not have yearnings similar to her sibs, unless we qualify her 'list' as such. [she does partake of dancing lessons as well] For all we know, Bran may have his own"list" - number 1 has been taken care of by the old gods, but he can seek vengeance on the others.

Unless we have a turnaround, which I hope we do, we may have Sansa meeting her true Knight in shining armor, Bran will become a true knight in shining armor, Jon will become a Dragon Knight, and ARya will become the first Sword of Braavos. Maybe these dreams will come true in a symbolic, metaphoric, and/or literal sense!

It is the Stark suffering that may somehow prepare them for the special talents they learn to possess. :dunno:

[Dark Heart]

I was reading about the Dark Sister (still think Arya might have it in the end) and found this about Visenya :

A passionate, temperamental woman, she was apt to dress as a warrior, with her hair in braided coils or bound in rings, and wielded the Valyrian steel sword Dark Sister. Aegon's eldest sister was a warrior more comfortable in ringmail than in silk. She was described as having a harsh beauty and was reputed to have dabbled in sorcery.

Dressing as a warrior and preferring mail to silk sounds similar to Arya's views on clothing.

And using magics is another thing they have in common.

She accompanied the Targaryen fleet to Gulltown on her dragon. After the Arryn fleet defeated the Targaryen fleet in the battle of Gulltown she had Vhagar burn the Arryn fleet.

She was the one to go (and deal with enemy's) fleet.

So, we now have two warrior Queens (Visenya and Nymeria) associated with ships.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I was reading about the Dark Sister (still think Arya might have it in the end) and found this about Visenya :

Dressing as a warrior and preferring mail to silk sounds similar to Arya's views on clothing.

And using magics is another thing they have in common.

She was the one to go (and deal with enemy's) fleet.

So, we now have two warrior Queens (Visenya and Nymeria) associated with ships.

Yee. I saw a lot of Visenya parallels with Arya too. In the show, Arya mentions making a heroine out of Visenya. (of course, thats just the show...)

[evita mgfs]

I found something interesting when I was searching wikipedia for things that resemble 'Nymeria':

The wolves of the Stark kids are possibly born from their already dead mother.

Source: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Palestrina

So we have a temple with many levels, like the HoBW, with depictions of both sea and the Nile, and a well inside. At this temple is an inscription of someone named Numeria.

An even more interesting temple:

Source: http://en.wikipedia...._Isis_(Pompeii)

A temple for slaves and freedmen (like the Braavosi), with a link to someone called Numerius, lunar symbols and sacred water. death and rebirth.

More on Isis:

Again many references to Death, resurrection (like UnCat), nature, and water. Lots of Arya elements.

:agree: :bowdown: MANDERLY’S RAT COOK: Well, first of all I love your call on Isis, for I have always associated her with Cleopatra, Queen of the Nile, who was obsessed with this goddess and even claimed to be a descendant of said goddess. [so great is my love for the Egyptian mythology surrounding Isis that I named my elder of two female golden retrievers after her: ISIS!!!! Maybe Cleopatra may not have thought naming a dog after her favorite of all goddesses, but then again the Egyptians loved their cats as passionately as many folk love their dogs, so I may be wrong on that score as well.

Now, I had to check the net to make sure I was not misremembering :blushing: Cleopatra’s association with the goddess, and I had an epiphany of sorts. As a fan of Shakespeare, I had read and studied the Shakespearean tragedy Antony and Cleopatra, which is powerfully romantic. It is from background histories of Plutarch from which Shakespeare borrowed his source material, and then I realized that it was through this work of Shakespeare I had learned about Cleopatra’s allegiance to Isis.

“Now pertaining to this quote: “She was worshipped as the ideal mother and wife as well as the patroness of nature and magic. She was the friend of slaves, sinners, artisans, and the downtrodden, and she listened to the prayers of the wealthy, maidens, aristocrats, and rulers.^[1] Isis is often depicted as the mother of Horus, the hawk-headed god of war and protection (although in some traditions Horus's mother was Hathor). Isis is also known as protector of the dead and goddess of children” – I can also see Arya as the friend of a variety of people, as she proves where ever she goes, symbolically finding herself a pack in which she can identify and in which she can seek her true identity.”

This may seem a stretch, but I cannot help but see a similar relationship between Cleo and Isis and Arya and Him of Many Faces. Cleo lived to serve or be served by her mythological goddess. Arya is presently a servant for a godhead whose name is Him of Many-Faces. Thus, both align themselves almost spiritually with a deity representing force and power.

This is not meant to imply that Arya has abandoned the old gods, OR the ways of the Starks and the weirwoods and such. No – I think Arya understands the concept of a final deity to whom all must meet their final journey to the nightlands, or where ever that person’s god or gods of worship they followed.

I hope this makes sense. I get very excited when I see connections and tend to type too fast, my ideas gushing out like an uncontrollable water fall or geyser.

Regardless, I am happy ISIS has worked her way into the discussion for markedly personal reasons as well as it fits the theme of Arya as part of the larger picture involving the water motif.

On a side note, I have written many posts tonight that have magically disappeared when I hit the post button. So now I simply must type them in a word document and copy and paste. Just wanted to vent my frustration with having to rewrite the same response several times due to the problem. It is probably only me. Sometimes technology can be a pain, but for the most part, it has opened a whole new world to me, especially in finding westeros and all the good people who post in this thread and elsewhere.

Once again, good call, MANDERLY’S RAT COOK. :cool4:

[James Arryn]

Totally OT, but evita I hope you are a parent or someone who works with children. Never seen someone so full of affirmation.

(Not sarcastic, it's remarkable.)

[evita mgfs]

Totally OT, but evita I hope you are a parent or someone who works with children. Never seen someone so full of affirmation.

(Not sarcastic, it's remarkable.)

:cheers: Thank you most sincerely, JAMES ARRYN! You found me out! :blushing: I am a retired English teacher - I retired early due to a disability . . . and of course, to WRITE! I also still direct plays - even children's theatre.

It is important to me to encourage everyone, truly. I was hurt deeply once by being flamed - and I do not want anyone else to experience the hurt I felt. After all, most of us are here to learn, and we put ourselves out there - sometimes bear our souls by introducing a crackpot theory we have in mind. Why ruin someone's day? I refuse to do what was done to me. Life is too short to discourage anyone, yes? :dunno:

I hope you are feeling better, as well. Good to hear from you again. :cool4:

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

:agree: :bowdown: MANDERLY’S RAT COOK: Well, first of all I love your call on Isis, for I have always associated her with Cleopatra, Queen of the Nile, who was obsessed with this goddess and even claimed to be a descendant of said goddess. [so great is my love for the Egyptian mythology surrounding Isis that I named my elder of two female golden retrievers after her: ISIS!!!! Maybe Cleopatra may not have thought naming a dog after her favorite of all goddesses, but then again the Egyptians loved their cats as passionately as many folk love their dogs, so I may be wrong on that score as well.

Yes yes yessss and the Nile being the river of life and death, makes Cleopatra the queen of death and birth by being Queen of the NIle!!! I named my mom's cat Isis btw (we have so much on common!!)

Now, I had to check the net to make sure I was not misremembering :blushing: Cleopatra’s association with the goddess, and I had an epiphany of sorts. As a fan of Shakespeare, I had read and studied the Shakespearean tragedy Antony and Cleopatra, which is powerfully romantic. It is from background histories of Plutarch from which Shakespeare borrowed his source material, and then I realized that it was through this work of Shakespeare I had learned about Cleopatra’s allegiance to Isis.

“Now pertaining to this quote: “She was worshipped as the ideal mother and wife as well as the patroness of nature and magic. She was the friend of slaves, sinners, artisans, and the downtrodden, and she listened to the prayers of the wealthy, maidens, aristocrats, and rulers.^[1] Isis is often depicted as the mother of Horus, the hawk-headed god of war and protection (although in some traditions Horus's mother was Hathor). Isis is also known as protector of the dead and goddess of children” – I can also see Arya as the friend of a variety of people, as she proves where ever she goes, symbolically finding herself a pack in which she can identify and in which she can seek her true identity.”

Goddess of children also fits into Arya being a child, and going to lengths to protect little weasel, and Lommy, Hot Pie, Gendry, and Mycah as well.

This may seem a stretch, but I cannot help but see a similar relationship between Cleo and Isis and Arya and Him of Many Faces. Cleo lived to serve or be served by her mythological goddess. Arya is presently a servant for a godhead whose name is Him of Many-Faces. Thus, both align themselves almost spiritually with a deity representing force and power.

This is not meant to imply that Arya has abandoned the old gods, OR the ways of the Starks and the weirwoods and such. No – I think Arya understands the concept of a final deity to whom all must meet their final journey to the nightlands, or where ever that person’s god or gods of worship they followed.

I hope this makes sense. I get very excited when I see connections and tend to type too fast, my ideas gushing out like an uncontrollable water fall or geyser.

Haha that happens to me all the time as well ;) I have a feeling that all religions turn out to be based on one principle, or prophecy, so I guess that will work for Arya.

Regardless, I am happy ISIS has worked her way into the discussion for markedly personal reasons as well as it fits the theme of Arya as part of the larger picture involving the water motif.

On a side note, I have written many posts tonight that have magically disappeared when I hit the post button. So now I simply must type them in a word document and copy and paste. Just wanted to vent my frustration with having to rewrite the same response several times due to the problem. It is probably only me. Sometimes technology can be a pain, but for the most part, it has opened a whole new world to me, especially in finding westeros and all the good people who post in this thread and elsewhere.

Once again, good call, MANDERLY’S RAT COOK. :cool4:

Thanks! And thanks for your great additions! I wasn't sure if I was just rambling nonsense, so I'm glad you see some logic in it as well :D

:cheers: Thank you most sincerely, JAMES ARRYN! You found me out! :blushing: I am a retired English teacher - I retired early due to a disability . . . and of course, to WRITE! I also still direct plays - even children's theatre.

It is important to me to encourage everyone, truly. I was hurt deeply once by being flamed - and I do not want anyone else to experience the hurt I felt. After all, most of us are here to learn, and we put ourselves out there - sometimes bear our souls by introducing a crackpot theory we have in mind. Why ruin someone's day? I refuse to do what was done to me. Life is too short to discourage anyone, yes? :dunno:

I hope you are feeling better, as well. Good to hear from you again.

Wow! Something else we have in common. I've played in a youth theatre for 16 years, in musicals and (youth) opera's. Here's a picture of me as one of the three witches in Verdi's opera Macbeth :)

The three witches: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/23609_1399336425351_2341386_n.jpg

Me: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/23609_1399339145419_2449849_n.jpg