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Seagard-Blue Fork canal


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13 replies to this topic

#1 Myrish Swamp Thing

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:37 AM

I was looking at the maps and that idea just came into my mind. How practicable would such a project be?

#2 Ser Lepus

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:22 AM

I was looking at the maps and that idea just came into my mind. How practicable would such a project be?


For another, more centralized empire? Very practicable: The egyptians dug a canal between the Nile and the Red Sea, the chinese between the Yangtze and Yellow Rivers, and the persians dug a canal to avoid surrounding the Mount Athos peninsula.

The persian canal was very short when compared to the other two, but the egyptian one could be similar in length to the Seagard-Blue Fork canal, and the chinese Grand Canal is so long that it could cross the Riverlands from sea to sea where they are at their widest (the chinese were that badass).

The problem wouldn't be technological, but logistic and economic: Neither the Tullys nor the Iron Throne hasn't the people or the money to bankroll such a project by themselves, so they would have to convince their vassals to help with money and workers, and that would be a challenging task.

Edited by Ser Lepus, 25 November 2012 - 01:57 PM.


#3 The Frost Wolf

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:17 AM

For another, more centralized empire? Very practicable: The egyptians digged a canal between the Nile and the Red Sea, the chinese between the Yangtze and Yellow Rivers, and the persians digged a canal to avoid surrounding the Mount Athos peninsula.

The persian canal was very short when compared to the other two, but the egyptian one could be similar in length to the Seagard-Blue Fork canal, and the chinese Grand Canal is so long that it could cross the Riverlands from sea to sea where they are at their widest (the chinese were that badass).

The problem wouldn't be technological, but logistic and economic: Neither the Tullys nor the Iron Throne hasn't the people or the money to bankroll such a project by themselves, so they would have to convince their vassals to help with money and workers, and that would be a challenging task.


Not to mention the Panama canal, probably the most economically important canal in the West.

But you're right, there's no means for it and who would attempt such a project right now? Tully's are mostly gone and the current Lord Paramount of the Trident, the oh so loyal Freys, are at war in the North and being picked off by the BWB.

Ain't nobody got time for that.

#4 Ser Lepus

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:00 PM

Not to mention the Panama canal, probably the most economically important canal in the West.

But you're right, there's no means for it and who would attempt such a project right now? Tully's are mostly gone and the current Lord Paramount of the Trident, the oh so loyal Freys, are at war in the North and being picked off by the BWB.

Ain't nobody got time for that.


Dynamite and heavy machinery had already been invented before the Panama Canal was built, so it doesn't count. We are speaking of doing it with shovels, here.

#5 Cregan Quagg

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

That actually sounds fairly dangerous. Should Seagard fall to the Ironborn, they could simply sail their longships into the canal and down the Blue Fork. Enabling them to raid every corner of the riverlands and easily retreat to the open sea on either side of the continent.

Come to think of it, that canal would have been an incredibly smart move on the Hoares' part back when they actually ruled the riverlands.

#6 Ser Lepus

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

That actually sounds fairly dangerous. Should Seagard fall to the Ironborn, they could simply sail their longships into the canal and down the Blue Fork. Enabling them to raid every corner of the riverlands and easily retreat to the open sea on either side of the continent.

Come to think of it, that canal would have been an incredibly smart move on the Hoares' part back when they actually ruled the riverlands.


Just put a few castles along the canal, and no ship will be able to navigate it without getting burnt. Also, that canal would be very easy to block with a chain similar to the one Tyrion used at Blackwater Bay.

And anyway, that canal would really galvanize the economy of Westeros' western coast. Many lords could build strong castles and small galley fleets along the coast, and a big city would probably appear next to Seagard, with a fleet able to fend the ironborn.

Edited by Ser Lepus, 25 November 2012 - 02:12 PM.


#7 Cregan Quagg

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:17 PM

Just put a few castles along the canal, and no ship will be able to navigate it without getting burnt. Also, that canal would be very easy to block with a chain similar to the one Tyrion used at Blackwater Bay.

And anyway, that canal would really galvanize the economy of Westeros' western coast. Many lords could build strong castles and small galley fleets along the coast, and a big city would probably appear next to Seagard, with a fleet able to fend the ironborn.


You got me, I'm sold. Where do I sign?

#8 Lord of Handle

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:50 PM

Isn't it a bit strange that the Targs didn't make more great infrastructure projects during their time in power? (Was the Kingsroad even their doing?)

Edit: Oh, right, the KR was commisioned by Jaehaerys I. But we still don't about the other roads...

Edited by Lord of Handle, 25 November 2012 - 04:02 PM.


#9 Fire Eater

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

The problem would be that the headwaters of the Blue Fork aren't for seagoing vessels.

I think the Fever River and the Neck would be a possible location with an isthmus like Panama and the land west of Moat Cailin following the Neck is probably flatland.

It'd be a boon for the North and the Starks, you'd just need to put a castle on either side of canal.

Edited by Fire Eater, 25 November 2012 - 06:04 PM.


#10 Cregan Quagg

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

The problem would be that the headwaters of the Blue Fork aren't for seagoing vessels.

I think the Fever River and the Neck would be a possible location with an isthmus like Panama and the land west of Moat Cailin following the Neck is probably flatland.

It'd be a boon for the North and the Starks, you just need to put a castle on either side of canal.


You're absolutely right. It should bring in major profits if Lannisport - White Harbour and Lannisport - Gulltown trading (I'm assuming those would be the trading routes established quickest and the ones that would provide the most traffic) was to be taxed. Good thinking.

However, if at all plausible, digging the Seagard canal the OP is talking about would still have been an extremely promising venture for the Hoares back before the Conquest. We do know that the Ironborn use longships that can navigate rivers.

Edited by Cregan Quagg, 25 November 2012 - 07:26 PM.


#11 Nezzer

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:24 PM

I think the Hightowers and the Sealords of Braavos would not allow such project to happen. Oldtown and Braavos are mandatory stops for most ship travels from one coast of Westeros to the other, and most of their riches must be connected to the strategic locations these cities were built at. Even though Seagard is very far from Braavos and Oldtown, the Hightowers and the Sealord of Braavos are very, very powerful. They'd probably sabotage the project.

#12 Cregan Quagg

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:31 PM

I think the Hightowers and the Sealords of Braavos would not allow such project to happen. Oldtown and Braavos are mandatory stops for most ship travels from one coast of Westeros to the other, and most of their riches must be connected to the strategic locations these cities were built at. Even though Seagard is very far from Braavos and Oldtown, the Hightowers and the Sealord of Braavos are very, very powerful. They'd probably sabotage the project.


That makes sense. I'm not sure about Braavos losing much business though? Trading between Lannisport or Pyke and Braavos would take less time, which should sound appealing to the Braavosi merchants.

Edited by Cregan Quagg, 26 November 2012 - 07:36 PM.


#13 Ran

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:50 PM

I think it's safe to say that the Goldroad and the Roseroad were also Targaryen projects. After all, they connect these various regions to... King's Landing, which was non-existant before Aegon the Conqueror.

#14 Myrish Swamp Thing

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

That makes sense. I'm not sure about Braavos losing much business though? Trading between Lannisport or Pyke and Braavos would take a shorter amount of time, which should sound appealing to the Braavosi merchants.


Yeah, I think Braavos might actually benefit from such a project. The big loser is Oldtown.