409 replies to this topic

[hollowcrown]

The TV show and many girls I know who read the book seem to think that Dany and Drogo had a really "Awh cute so romantic" type of relationship...true love and everything, when in actuality she was raped multiple times and I thought the whole older Warrior loving a 14 year old was REALLY creepy.

Did Dany actually truly "love" him or was she just a 14 year old enamoured with an older guy (like many teenage girls are, especially when the main man in her life is Viserys), or did she have something like stockholm syndrome...falling in love with her "captor?"

[Lady Sansa Stark]

I absolutely despise the Daenerys-Drogo-relationship and there are a lot of book-fans, even fans of Daenerys, who agree with me. A 13-year-old and a 28-year-old (around 28?) ain't cute romantic to me. The TVshow is easier of course, since Emilia Clarke is 22 and it looks more acceptable there. I myself am torn between ''love'' and ''form of stockholm syndrome'', but she at least liked the Dothraki culture.. In one way or the other. No one can tell me she oh so liked crying in her pillow every night because he hurt her so much. Some people try, though.

[willy york]

drogo did court her until she said yes.  besides, just because our culture doesnt approve of someone so young having sex doesnt mean that it is truly right or wrong.  the sambia tribe in papua new guinea practice ritualistic pedophilial homosexual fellatio with the young men in their tribe.  to us its disgusting, but to them, its a normal thing.  we need to respect the cultures of dark skinned people.

Edited by willy york, 25 January 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

willy york, on 25 January 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

drogo did court her until she said yes.  besides, just because our culture doesnt approve of someone so young having sex doesnt mean that it is truly right or wrong.  the sambia tribe in papua new guinea practice ritualistic pedophilial homosexual fellatio with the young men in their tribe.  to us its disgusting, but to them, its a normal thing.

I understand that some cultures have different norms and values and I respect that, but I'm only a moral relativist up to some point. And frankly, this Guinea situation and Daenerys' situation crosses that line.

[The Dragon King]

A relationship between a 14yr old female and a male who is double her age was the norm for most of civilized history, women routinely died in childbirth and children would often die in infancy, so would would be married as soon as they 'flowered' in order to maximize childbearing ability.  As for Stockholm syndrome, I'm sure there's plenty of that going on, but that's also been the norm for all of human existence.

[The Dragon King]

willy york, on 25 January 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

drogo did court her until she said yes.  besides, just because our culture doesnt approve of someone so young having sex doesnt mean that it is truly right or wrong.  the sambia tribe in papua new guinea practice ritualistic pedophilial homosexual fellatio with the young men in their tribe.  to us its disgusting, but to them, its a normal thing.  we need to respect the cultures of dark skinned people.

Why does any culture deserve or not deserve respect?

[willy york]

because its their own culture and they are practicing it in their own lands.

[Ser Ennepe]

Lady Sansa Stark, on 25 January 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

I absolutely despise the Daenerys-Drogo-relationship and there are a lot of book-fans, even fans of Daenerys, who agree with me. A 13-year-old and a 28-year-old (around 28?) ain't cute romantic to me. The TVshow is easier of course, since Emilia Clarke is 22 and it looks more acceptable there. I myself am torn between ''love'' and ''form of stockholm syndrome'', but she at least liked the Dothraki culture.. In one way or the other. No one can tell me she oh so liked crying in her pillow every night because he hurt her so much. Some people try, though.

  but I wouldn´t say love. I would call it Friends with benefits.

The Dragon King, on 25 January 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Why does any culture deserve or not deserve respect?

Aaaand this is a topic for General Chatter I think

[willy york]

Ser Ennepe, on 25 January 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Aaaand this is a topic for General Chatter I think

the whole foundation of this discussion (which is about the book) is cultural boundries.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

willy york, on 25 January 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

because its their own culture and they are practicing it in their own lands.

Doesn't mean we should respect their culture or the things they do. Some cultures offered children to their gods, but we don't respect that either. And it's not even about darkskinned peoples here.

[Ser Ennepe]

willy york, on 25 January 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

the whole foundation of this discussion (which is about the book) is cultural boundries.

true but it sounds like The Dragon King meant your Papua New Guinea example and the resulting "we need to respect the cultures of dark skinned people" bit.

[willy york]

i respect cultures that do that.  i respect cultures that do anything they choose to do collectively because its their right as a culture to do such things.

[Winter's Knight]

It's sick. Gods, I hate this storyline so much-it keeps me from recommending the series to my friends.

That said, I think Daenerys did love Drogo: her marriage to him is what allowed her to break away from Viserys and become her own person.


Re: age desparities
Although girls were married off really young through the ages, it doesn't make it any less sickening or damaging to the girls it does happen to. Ancient Spartans used to leae weak infants out on cliffs to die, until the early 20th century, Indian widows would be burnt alive on their husbands' pyres-you will find almost every atrocity normalised in at least one culture throughout the ages, but it is not an intelligent argument.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

willy york, on 25 January 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

i respect cultures that do that.  i respect cultures that do anything they choose to do collectively because its their right as a culture to do such things.

This is disgusting, but still, I'll respond.
It is their right, yes, but ''respect'' and ''right'' is totally different from each other. Saying that something is their right to do means you agree that they do it, since they agreed upon it collectively, it's their culture and so on. But respecting that they do it means you actually agree with what they do, you show appreciation or regard for the things they do. I don't dare ask almost, but I hardly think you appreciate child-offering, no?

[Brienne Of Bombay]

A fourteen year old girl marrying a 28 year old man doesn't bother me as much as him forcing himself on her and not bothering whether she was comfortable or not. I understand that customs differ from place to place and it's not the custom that's the issue. Her crying because of the pain can't be justified to me atleast.

[SeanF]

I certainly got the impression that she did come to love him.  But, the whole idea of a 13 year old girl being effectively traded to a much older man is disturbing - and intended to be.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Winter, on 25 January 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

It's sick. Gods, I hate this storyline so much-it keeps me from recommending the series to my friends.

That said, I think Daenerys did love Drogo: her marriage to him is what allowed her to break away from Viserys and become her own person.


Re: age desparities
Although girls were married off really young through the ages, it doesn't make it any less sickening or damaging to the girls it does happen to. Ancient Spartans used to leae weak infants out on cliffs to die, until the early 20th century, Indian widows would be burnt alive on their husbands' pyres-you will find almost every atrocity normalised in at least one culture throughout the ages, but it is not an intelligent argument.

Yeah, where's the like button? (Except for the love, then, since I'm still not sure. )

[Winter's Knight]

Lady Sansa Stark, on 25 January 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

This is disgusting, but still, I'll respond.
It is their right, yes, but ''respect'' and ''right'' is totally different from each other. Saying that something is their right to do means you agree that they do it, since they agreed upon it collectively, it's their culture and so on. But respecting that they do it means you actually agree with what they do, you show appreciation or regard for the things they do. I don't dare ask almost, but I hardly think you appreciate child-offering, no?

Let it go, these fights are never worth it and they break out every second day. Just hit the ignore button.

Lady Sansa Stark, on 25 January 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Yeah, where's the like button? (Except for the love, then, since I'm still not sure. )

It's not a very healthy sort of love true.

Edited by Winter's Knight, 25 January 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[Ser Ennepe]

Lady Sansa Stark, on 25 January 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Yeah, where's the like button? (Except for the love, then, since I'm still not sure. )

I miss the like button I also agree with Winter´s Knight, such fights are not worth fighting.

[hollowcrown]

SeanF, on 25 January 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

I certainly got the impression that she did come to love him.  But, the whole idea of a 13 year old girl being effectively traded to a much older man is disturbing - and intended to be.

But did she truly "love" him, or did she just "love" him because he was the only option for her and she had resigned herself to life as this man's sex slave? Did she only love him for the sake of their baby together?

She seems dedicated to him earlier in the books and sincere about his death, rejecting Jorah and Xaro...but then she just starts a casual sexual relationship with Daario...Khal Drogo isn't in her mind then.