[BOOK SPOILERS] [Major!] How will Season 3 end? Finale speculation

[hanales]

Until it isn't. The story in King's Landing is going to quickly transition to focus on the marriage of Sansa. Olenna will propose a marriage between Loraa & Sansa, which will prompt Sansa to forego her arrangement with Littlefinger. This will cause Tywin to intervene, and the Tyrion & Sansa betrothal will enter the picture. Just look at the synopses for episodes 4-8, and you'll see that they aren't going to continue to frame the King's Landing story line around the wedding between Joffrey & Margaery.

Furthermore, in literary terms, the death of Joffrey at his own wedding is an anti-climax. It's not a climax in narrative terms, whatsoever, and more importantly, it doesn't naturally lend itself to ending a series of story lines when it so clearly is more efficient and important in setting them up.

Not long to wait, now, but I'm 99.9% positive that we aren't seeing the Purple Wedding this season. And from a narrative stand point, and a logistical stand point (as Tyrion said, the event will be 'the most extravagant the kingdom has ever seen'), I think that's the right choice.

Joffrey dying doesn't provide any real consolation for the audience at that point. By that time, Walder Frey, Roose Bolton, and Tywin Lannister (possibly even Ramsay) will all be more prevalent in the mind of the audience. The death of Tywin is the real 'pay back' for the Red Wedding, and all the cogs that put that story line into real motion is the Purple Wedding. Which is why it will happen at the beginning of next season, not the end of this one.

In the synopses for the first three episodes they didn't mention the weddings either, so I don't think we can use those for judgement. Evidently this week Tyrion will "learn the cost" of weddings, so who knows if that's going to be a big planning episode. If it is, and they don't come up with a solid reason to NOT have it, I'm going to start placing bets.

And you're right, it's not a climax, it kicks off what's going to happen in the next season, like the watch leaving castle black, or the dragons being born.

To your last point, of consolation. Every non-book reader I know wants nothing more for him to die. Preferably horrifically, at the hands of a Stark. I think you're being too academic in your viewpoint, and forgetting that for TV watchers, watching evil people die is fun, especially when they die horribly. (Monday morning watercooler talk at my office is ALL game of thrones, and 6 of the 7 people are non-book readers, I'm the 7th).

[Sasha Steelsong]

Furthermore, in literary terms, the death of Joffrey at his own wedding is an anti-climax. It's not a climax in narrative terms, whatsoever, and more importantly, it doesn't naturally lend itself to ending a series of story lines when it so clearly is more efficient and important in setting them up.

Not long to wait, now, but I'm 99.9% positive that we aren't seeing the Purple Wedding this season. And from a narrative stand point, and a logistical stand point (as Tyrion said, the event will be 'the most extravagant the kingdom has ever seen'), I think that's the right choice.

Joffrey dying doesn't provide any real consolation for the audience at that point. By that time, Walder Frey, Roose Bolton, and Tywin Lannister (possibly even Ramsay) will all be more prevalent in the mind of the audience. The death of Tywin is the real 'pay back' for the Red Wedding, and all the cogs that put that story line into real motion is the Purple Wedding. Which is why it will happen at the beginning of next season, not the end of this one.

And all this without mentioning the lack of shooting reports, and without bringing up that Oberyn Martell and Mace Tyrell (who will both surely be cast and show up prior to the wedding happening).

And traditionally the 10th episodes have been more about starting new things than ending old, the beginning of the King in the North, the beginning of Jon with the Wildlings, the beginning of Arya's journey after Harranhal, etc. Joffrey dying does provide consolation for the audience, who will have lost at least two major characters the episode before (depending on what they do with Arya, the audience might well think 3 Starks were killed) while still leaving a bevy of new people to hate. More importantly Joffrey dying does close out the arc for a lot of characters and moves them forward. It caps off Sansa's arch (which is still about her getting out of KL - whether to the Vale or Highgarden), it moves Cersie forward to being the grieving mother and her descent to madness, and Tyrion is no longer just the hand but imprisoned. Without the PW the characters are pretty much in the same places they were at the end of the previous season.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

I do agree that every story needs a start and a finish and that it's important in TV to have a forward momentum. Best example of why this is needed may be the fall of How I met your Mother from a instant classic to a deprived joke. However, I do feel that my time and budget constraints + quality wanted trumps the "structural" argument and secondly, there are good ends in for the King's Landing characters: Cersei can be put down by Tywin and told as a matter of fact that she will marry Oberyn Martell. Also I feel it's telling we haven't seen a Tywin meets Joffrey scene yet. That can be E10. Tyrion has an obvious ending/climax with his marriage to Sansa. So it's not as bad as some of you pretend it is. But I have to answer to some questions quickly:

Why does all of that has to happen? Just because it happened in the books doesn't mean it has to happen on the show. Hell, I've been wishing for Penny and the dwarf jousting to get cut. The money spent on costumes and sets for a lavish ceremony/reception would still only be a fraction of Blackwater's costs. You don't lose anything from trimming it down.

Short answer: Because it's good TV.

Long answer: It has a narrative purpose. Why did the Tyrells and especially Littlefinger chose the Wedding to kill Joffrey? To have Marg being another widow? (what's the point there?) [in the books it's to a big degree a timing thing, but the show 'takes' longer, also having a easy person to accuse, Sansa and Tyrion*]. I see it as a message that assassinations can happen all the time, even when a King is at his highest point, i.e. a pompous Feast with all luxuries imagineable in his own castle after being cheered on by the population.

*another reason why you need all these other scenes btw.

Yes. Yes I would. It's not a trick - it's the culmination of a season-long narrative arc that began with the arrival of the Tyrells. That's much more important than fanservice. As to your second point, the PW occurs almost immediately after the RW in the books (Catelyn's POV is Chapter 51, Arya's is Chapter 52; the PW is Tyrion/Sansa in chapters 58-60); I don't see how episode 10 is any different from that.

Pagewise, yes. The global timeline gives it a week (December 23 to January 1), it does feel like more to me from how Sansa acts, but okay, it was a minor point for me anyways. I will say though that it makes some difference to the viewer who will now have a full year inbetween.

I hope not; the best place to reveal UnCat is S5E10, at Brienne's trial.

Wouldn't that be the very definition of a deus (or devil in this case) ex machina. It'd seem like a retread to get a character back in and would remind me of bad comic villains that survive somehow to come back to haunt the hero in a sequel/next comic book. As you have pointed out, every character needs a beginning and a end for each season. Cat's end is when she reawakens.

I do agree to go back again that there's nothing wrong in making things faster and cut away, but on the other hand, there's no need to hurry things up to get somewhere. Some scenes need to breathe. Also, the showrunners don't have any fear of not getting to the wedding. People will turn in again for season 4. The constant remarks of the wedding (which btw. weren't that many) serve to keep it in mind, If they want to, they can tell us why it's postponed to season 3 like "It needs to happen on the first day of the next century" or "Oberyn the bastard is lagging",

[CrypticWeirwood]

I disagree. By S5E10 we won't have seen Catelyn for 2 seasons and the memory of her will have faded, as will have her importance to the viewers mind. Revealing her at that point will seem kind of lame, like the show resurrecting some random person who's not been important to the story for 2 seasons for shock value. Catelyn is important to us NOW, and her arc of pain and loss is important NOW, so we need to see what that will turn her in this season when she is important. I think George himself had a reason for showing us Catelyn's fate in the end of Book 3 and not in Book 4 when Brienne shows her.

The showrunners will have to do something pretty radical with Catelyn no matter what happens. They cannot just send her off for several seasons doing nothing at all. Look what they have done with Theon to compensate for that, and Catelyn is much more important than Theon.

There are problems showing Nymeria at all, since we have had no word of her to date, nor has Arya had any wolf dreams. I doubt they will go that route.

Finally, as we've seen with Tyrion, they are not going to utterly mangle a leading actor's face just because this happens in the book. It isn't maintainable.

So what is going to happen with Cat? Seems like there are lots of possibilities:

1. She isn't killed at the Red Wedding after all, but just taken prisoner per the original draft Martin wrote, before he changed things. This saves on mutilation and magic.
   
2. She is killed, but is not resurrected at all. She's out of the series, and her parts will be rewritten to be done by someone else. This is better than giving her a single scene every two years.
   
3. She is killed and eventually resurrected in this season's final episode (S03E10), but looks like the most disgusting and putrid zombie. She cannot talk. She gets only one more scene over the next three years, and none at all for a year or two. Maybe in S05E10 or something.
   
4. She is killed and eventually resurrected, but nothing at all as gruesomely as the books would have you believe. She will still be recognizable, and still able to talk. She will not look like the zombies beyond the Wall from S02E10, but more like Beric. She gets more scenes to pad out her story as the seasons progress so that we don't forget her till Jaime's capture by Brienne.
   

What other possibilities are there?

[Sun]

My breakdown for the final ep:

1 - Dany Takes Yunkai, crowed scene screaming Myhsa.

2- Ygritt's death / or / Jon wounded by Ygritte in his escape from Queencrown.

3- Bran crossing the wall.

4- Arya leaves the Hound for dead.

5- Lady Stoneheart rising.

I'm not sure what the final scene in KL is, but with everything else going on in this episode, I can't see how they can possibly fit PW in. Even if I'm wrong about the number of plot lines covered in ep10, there still will be quite a few, leaving very little space to cover the drama of PW properly.

I'm firmly in the camp of PW being in season 4.

[Ser Richard Horpe]

absolutely no way the purple wedding is in season 3. i would bet my friend's life on it. I think the only logical ending is lady stark being ressurected. nothing about stoneheart, just her dead body lying there, beric giving her the kiss and her eyes open. end season. maybe even arya sees it through nymerias eyes or something.

purple wedding could be an entire episode, or most of it. no way they can show this along with yunkai and other mumbo jumbo

[Aegnor]

I'm desperately hoping the PW is not this season. The reason I say that is that there is no possible way to do it justice if they do it this season. That doesn't mean they can't do it. There is definitely a way they could short circuit several things, shift characters, minimize things, etc, and fit it all in. But I don't think there is any way to do it well this season. That ship has sailed.

[Dysun]

No Purple Wedding, not happening

UnCat will happen though

[Qhorin Fivehands]

Ahh I am so torn now on this topic, I was so sure the PW would be in the first 3 episodes of season 4 but you people are swaying me! I think there are certain things you have to consider in relation to when the PW will be.

First off, Ned Stark's beheading in season one left a lot of viewers alienated feeling as if they invested all their time in this show for nothing, as there was no sense of justice in episode 10 of season 1, just dragons. I don't think D&D want to do this again (despite the fact more people watched the season 2 premiere then any episodes of season 1.

Secondly, will it would give viewers a sense of justice for the PW to happen directly after the RW, however two massive events in two episodes would leave little time to round off the other 10 or so storylines in the show.

Thirdly, and I think the most important is this, the main reason I believe that the PW will NOT be held in season 3, is because Oberyn Martell is a KEY player in season 4, and non-book readers would not understand if he suddenly appeared in season 4 and vouched to fight for Tyrion, and it is just stated that he was there the whole time. Now while they could have cast Oberyn and kept it a closely guarded secret, I find it doubtful.

They split a SoS into two seasons for a reason, there are so many damn important events that you could not fit into one season, the PW being the most important after the RW. I'm still torn on the subject, but I'm really starting to think it would be a let-down if they crammed the PW into an episode where they have to tie off many storylines, leading me to believe un-Cat will be the final scene, bringing some sense of justice.

[Sun]

The only way it can be done, that I can see with my limited imagination, is if episode 9 were to cover both RW and PW. I would hate that. Both these events are pivotal, high drama, strong emotional punch events. To lump them together in one episode would be to dilute the effect of both. It would be a such a waste, that I doubt the show-makers would go that route.

Also, looking the at the ep summaries it seems very likely that GW is in episode 8. Cramming 3 weddings in 2, or 3, consecutive installments would make for ridiculous plot pacing.

I still say, PW in S4.

[victim]

My breakdown for the final ep:

1 - Dany Takes Yunkai, crowed scene screaming Myhsa.

2- Ygritt's death / or / Jon wounded by Ygritte in his escape from Queencrown.

3- Bran crossing the wall.

4- Arya leaves the Hound for dead.

5- Lady Stoneheart rising.

I'm not sure what the final scene in KL is, but with everything else going on in this episode, I can't see how they can possibly fit PW in. Even if I'm wrong about the number of plot lines covered in ep10, there still will be quite a few, leaving very little space to cover the drama of PW properly.

I'm firmly in the camp of PW being in season 4.

On top of all the things you mentioned, a considerable amount of time will be spent on the fallout of the RW, which will include:

- Grey Wind's head on Robb

- Cat being thrown in the river

- Tyrion consoling Sansa

- Joffrey being a happy little shit

- Tywin doling out pardons to all those involved

- Jaime is sent back to KL (they need to find a reason to keep him at Harrenhall after Ep. 7 too)

- (Maybe) A scene where Ramsey reveals himself to be a Bolton to Theon

I also agree that the finale will be UnCat. It fits perfectly into the supernatural finales they've been doing, while at the same time being completely different to the other two. It immediately sparks the audiences desire for revenge, especially if we get her hanging a Frey that took part in the wedding, while also adequately ending Beric and Thoros' arc for Season 3.

[Sun]

On top of all the things you mentioned, a considerable amount of time will be spent on the fallout of the RW, which will include:

- Grey Wind's head on Robb

- Cat being thrown in the river

- Tyrion consoling Sansa

- Joffrey being a happy little shit

- Tywin doling out pardons to all those involved

- Jaime is sent back to KL (they need to find a reason to keep him at Harrenhall after Ep. 7 too)

- (Maybe) A scene where Ramsey reveals himself to be a Bolton to Theon

I also agree that the finale will be UnCat. It fits perfectly into the supernatural finales they've been doing, while at the same time being completely different to the other two. It immediately sparks the audiences desire for revenge, especially if we get her hanging a Frey that took part in the wedding, while also adequately ending Beric and Thoros' arc for Season 3.

The dolling out of pardons would make a great start for season 4, I think. I agree we might see Theon being flayed for the first time by a revealed Ramsay Bolton.

[WearsNoCrown]

My friend found a copy of the script for season 4 episode 1 full of writing notes. writer must have left it on accident, he hasnt read it yet. but it would answer this question

[Lannister Hamster]

PW won't even be in the first 3 eps of Season 4 - more like episode 5. Remember, nothing happens in the first 2 weeks, it's mostly coming back to the characters - and they'll still want to introduce Oberynn Martell and Mace Tyrell and the relationship between the two houses.

In Ep 10 we can have (in no order) Shae being scorned, the third leech and Davos convincing Stannis, Meisha, Theon being recaptured, Jaime rescuing Brienne, first battle at the wall and death of Ygritte, Hound saying something poignant to Arya and if the RW is in ep 9 the aftermath.

I'm really on the fence about Lady Stoneheart. If they do it they'll have to change the story somewhat and make the character turn up at least once per season.

[Words of Winter]

My breakdown for the final ep:

1 - Dany Takes Yunkai, crowed scene screaming Myhsa.

2- Ygritt's death / or / Jon wounded by Ygritte in his escape from Queencrown.

3- Bran crossing the wall.

4- Arya leaves the Hound for dead.

5- Lady Stoneheart rising.

I'm not sure what the final scene in KL is, but with everything else going on in this episode, I can't see how they can possibly fit PW in. Even if I'm wrong about the number of plot lines covered in ep10, there still will be quite a few, leaving very little space to cover the drama of PW properly.

I'm firmly in the camp of PW being in season 4.

:agree:

Furthermore, in literary terms, the death of Joffrey at his own wedding is an anti-climax. It's not a climax in narrative terms, whatsoever, and more importantly, it doesn't naturally lend itself to ending a series of story lines when it so clearly is more efficient and important in setting them up.

Not long to wait, now, but I'm 99.9% positive that we aren't seeing the Purple Wedding this season. And from a narrative stand point, and a logistical stand point (as Tyrion said, the event will be 'the most extravagant the kingdom has ever seen'), I think that's the right choice.

Joffrey dying doesn't provide any real consolation for the audience at that point. By that time, Walder Frey, Roose Bolton, and Tywin Lannister (possibly even Ramsay) will all be more prevalent in the mind of the audience. The death of Tywin is the real 'pay back' for the Red Wedding, and all the cogs that put that story line into real motion is the Purple Wedding. Which is why it will happen at the beginning of next season, not the end of this one.

:agree: completely.

I think the best way to end season 4 is looking down on a dead Cat, Beric given her life, and UnCat's eye's open. PW should be, IMHO, season 4, ep 4 just as season 3 ep 4 is a small climax of season 3.

[Iotun]

The showrunners will have to do something pretty radical with Catelyn no matter what happens. They cannot just send her off for several seasons doing nothing at all. Look what they have done with Theon to compensate for that, and Catelyn is much more important than Theon.

There are problems showing Nymeria at all, since we have had no word of her to date, nor has Arya had any wolf dreams. I doubt they will go that route.

Finally, as we've seen with Tyrion, they are not going to utterly mangle a leading actor's face just because this happens in the book. It isn't maintainable.

So what is going to happen with Cat? Seems like there are lots of possibilities:

1. She isn't killed at the Red Wedding after all, but just taken prisoner per the original draft Martin wrote, before he changed things. This saves on mutilation and magic.
   
   
2. She is killed, but is not resurrected at all. She's out of the series, and her parts will be rewritten to be done by someone else. This is better than giving her a single scene every two years.
   
   
3. She is killed and eventually resurrected in this season's final episode (S03E10), but looks like the most disgusting and putrid zombie. She cannot talk. She gets only one more scene over the next three years, and none at all for a year or two. Maybe in S05E10 or something.
   
   
4. She is killed and eventually resurrected, but nothing at all as gruesomely as the books would have you believe. She will still be recognizable, and still able to talk. She will not look like the zombies beyond the Wall from S02E10, but more like Beric. She gets more scenes to pad out her story as the seasons progress so that we don't forget her till Jaime's capture by Brienne.
   

What other possibilities are there?

I'm confident its option 3. I think there's not that much that they can have her do, and I think the perhaps most significant reason is, the show NEEDS to start getting rid of major characters to follow, as by next season it will have far too many storylines to follow.

[Iotun]

My friend found a copy of the script for season 4 episode 1 full of writing notes. writer must have left it on accident, he hasnt read it yet. but it would answer this question

IF true, I'd rather we not find out.

[Iotun]

I wouldn't call myself an "advocate" I'm basing it on the fact that they are talking about it far too much for them NOT to do it. But, with regards to your question,

Cersei is now a widow, and has watched her son die in front of her, and has had her brother imprisoned for it. This begins her descent into what I like to call "crazy ass Cersei" in AFFC and ADWD. So while she has the same "power" her personal arc changes dramatically at that point.

And if you DON'T have the purple wedding, then absolutely nothing happens to anyone this season in KL, with the exception of some gloating over events in other places, and Sansa marrying Tyrion.

Another reason that it makes sense is they have started the "LittleFinger takes Sansa from KL" arc as well. Why would they start this in episode one and have no resolution to it for over a year? That's not how television generally works, even game of thrones.

Oh I agree with you completely. I was talking about advocates of the PW being in Season 4, though I obviously didn't make that clear. :P

[Nuttz]

I'm confident its option 3. I think there's not that much that they can have her do, and I think the perhaps most significant reason is, the show NEEDS to start getting rid of major characters to follow, as by next season it will have far too many storylines to follow.

The Wire proved that a compelling season of TV can be done while largely omitting a key character (McNulty in season 4), I definitely think Cat will take a back seat until she starts to move more into the story. She'll have a scene here and there, but not too many. It's likely they'll show how she comes to lead the Brotherhood rather than tell it in flashback.

As for the PW, it's always possible that the writers could make their own character arcs for King's Landing storylines. A possible solution I thought of is that Cersei (and the audience) learn that Joffrey is going to be killed at his wedding. We don't actually get to the wedding yet, but that knowledge (especially if the QoT or Margaery tells Cersei themselves) would give a good concluding point for the Tyrell arc, as well as Cersei (she would obviously try to call it off/have the Tyrell's killed, but Joffrey would have nothing of it). Sansa and Tyrion already have plenty of stuff within their marriage that could act as an arc.

[Lannister Hamster]

I think the KL arc is all about power and who has it.

Thing's not happening is not bad. See Mad Men. It's all about the interpersonal relationships and at the end of the season they'll all be in interesting places.

I think the Tyrion, Sansa, Shae love triangle will be good and dramatic. Shae will probably be really angry with Tyrion and out for revenge at the end of the series.

I think the last episode will show that despite everyone's efforts to manipulate him that Joffrey is totally uncontrollable. This sets up the Tyrell plan B, Cersei at her lowest and Tywin being awesome (especially since he's still revelling in the RW). In fact ending the series with the appearance that the Lannister's have won the war, but the reality that there is a lot of fighting and disastisfaction on the inside is actually a really good place to end the KL story.