[BOOK SPOILERS] [Major!] How will Season 3 end? Finale speculation

[dalrymple123]

Spolers: One problem: Sansa and Tyion are married in ep 8, we know

Then RW is in E9

Slightly crammed full of weddings dont you think? Especially to have yet another wedding the episode after...,

[WearsNoCrown]

IF true, I'd rather we not find out.

we have both expressed the same thing. neither want to read it

[Iotun]

At least its nice that as book readers we still have something to speculate and be uncertain about!

[Gannicus]

You can't have the PW without Oberyn Martell.

[mafalda]

Since the final episode will be Mhysa... Isn't that the end of Dany's storyline in B3? Because when the people were chanting Mhysa she says that she will stay there and rule there for a while. Then we don't hear anymore of her until she is living in that pyramid in B5. But what about next season, what will she be doing while the rest of B3 is running? I hope they take her straight to her B5 storyline, because clearly making up storylines for Dany doesn't work out. See Season 2!

I'm hoping that the very final scene will be the reveal of Lady Stoneheart! I doubt the PW will be in this season. What would happen for the remainder of B3 in S4? There wouldn't be much except for the trial. Besides the stuff beyond the wall of course.

And Oberyn has not been cast yet. I know they got around introducing the Reeds later, and Ramsay, but I don't see how they will get around introducing Oberyn late. What would be his reasoning for coming to KL then? Even though his character had a brief life in the books, this is one character I hope they get right!

I don't understand why people think the PW will happen this season. People say it's because they keep talking about it. Well, yeah, the ENTIRE storyline in KL in B3 is about the wedding. We can't have them twiddle their thumbs for an entrie season, then suddenly next season remember oh we have a wedding to prepare!

:)

[Gannicus]

Since the final episode will be Mhysa... Isn't that the end of Dany's storyline in B3? Because when the people were chanting Mhysa she says that she will stay there and rule there for a while. Then we don't hear anymore of her until she is living in that pyramid in B5. But what about next season, what will she be doing while the rest of B3 is running? I hope they take her straight to her B5 storyline, because clearly making up storylines for Dany doesn't work out. See Season 2!

I'm hoping that the very final scene will be the reveal of Lady Stoneheart! I doubt the PW will be in this season. What would happen for the remainder of B3 in S4? There wouldn't be much except for the trial. Besides the stuff beyond the wall of course.

And Oberyn has not been cast yet. I know they got around introducing the Reeds later, and Ramsay, but I don't see how they will get around introducing Oberyn late. What would be his reasoning for coming to KL then? Even though his character had a brief life in the books, this is one character I hope they get right!

I don't understand why people think the PW will happen this season. People say it's because they keep talking about it. Well, yeah, the ENTIRE storyline in KL in B3 is about the wedding. We can't have them twiddle their thumbs for an entrie season, then suddenly next season remember oh we have a wedding to prepare!

:)

Dany's Mereen "adventures" will be in season 4.

The PW and trial that comes with it will be in season 4.

You can take that to the bank.

If there is a season 5 that's when things will get tricky. The producers will have to race Tyrion through Essos. That isn't a bad thing, but it will take some skill to finess Illyrio, Aegon/JonCon, Jorah, and Darrio(In place of Plum) into one season.

[YouSnowNothing]

The biggest problem with introducing Oberyn after the PW, for me, is not explaining why he's there. They can easily say he just turned up to claim his council seat. No, the bigger issue is how terribly contrived it looks if Oberyn shows up when Tyrion is in dire need of a champion, and just happens to volunteer his services. Changing the order of events massively damages how good the plot works. Look:

In the book:

- Oberyn arrives in KL, meets Tyrion, we get backstory and see why he hates the Lannisters/Gregor

- Events of PW, Tyrion gets arrested

- Tyrion searches for a Champion, we wonder who he could get

- Oberyn reminds us of his motivations and volunteers as Champion, everything comes full-circle and seems to occur naturally

Change that to:

- Events of PW, Tyrion gets arrested

- Tyrion searches for a Champion, we wonder who he could get

- Oberyn turns up out of nowhere, and informs us of his hatred for the Lannisters/Gregor

- Oberyn meets Tyrion and volunteers to be his champion

The latter version clearly comes off as more contrived and overly-convenient. It's a Deus Ex Machina, for this powerful fighter to just appear out of thin air, with conveniently perfect motivation for wanting to champion Tyrion. The plot makes perfect sense either way, but for it to be good, Oberyn needs to be introduced before the PW, without a doubt.

Since the final episode will be Mhysa... Isn't that the end of Dany's storyline in B3? Because when the people were chanting Mhysa she says that she will stay there and rule there for a while. Then we don't hear anymore of her until she is living in that pyramid in B5. But what about next season, what will she be doing while the rest of B3 is running? I hope they take her straight to her B5 storyline, because clearly making up storylines for Dany doesn't work out. See Season 2!

The "Mhysa" scene is when Dany takes Yunkai. Then two/three chapters later she conquers Meereen, and decides to stay there. So there is some B3 material to work with in S4. But still, it's not a lot, it is likely that they will pull some material from ADWD to fill her time in S4 (Personally, I like the scene of her locking up her dragons as a final scene for her, especially if it's contrasted with Tyrion and Victarion heading towards her).

[mafalda]

Dany's Mereen "adventures" will be in season 4.

The PW and trial that comes with it will be in season 4.

You can take that to the bank.

If there is a season 5 that's when things will get tricky. The producers will have to race Tyrion through Essos. That isn't a bad thing, but it will take some skill to finess Illyrio, Aegon/JonCon, Jorah, and Darrio(In place of Plum) into one season.

I'm willing to bet my right sword hand that PW is next season!

[Sasha Steelsong]

And Oberyn has not been cast yet. I know they got around introducing the Reeds later, and Ramsay, but I don't see how they will get around introducing Oberyn late. What would be his reasoning for coming to KL then?

:)

Sorry but the often-repeated incorrect assumtion is really starting to bug me. Oberyn is never coming to KL for the wedding, that is just the bonus that he is there for that. He is coming to fill the seat that has been vacant on the Small Council since COK when it was given to Dorne as part of the Myrcella deal. Regardless of whether one feels Oberyn is necssary for the PW, his purpose in coming to KL is to sit on the council not be a wedding guest. Why so many who profess to be so well versed in the books keep overlooking/misstating this I will never know.

[mafalda]

Sorry but the often-repeated incorrect assumtion is really starting to bug me. Oberyn is never coming to KL for the wedding, that is just the bonus that he is there for that. He is coming to fill the seat that has been vacant on the Small Council since COK when it was given to Dorne as part of the Myrcella deal. Regardless of whether one feels Oberyn is necssary for the PW, his purpose in coming to KL is to sit on the council not be a wedding guest. Why so many who profess to be so well versed in the books keep overlooking/misstating this I will never know.

Calm down, Sasha. I never "professed" to be "so well versed in the books". It's been a while since I read them. Oberyn aside, I still don't think the PW will be this season. I personally think they would be shoving way too much into one season.

You are right but let's keep our pants on about it.

[Colonel Green]

The "Mhysa" scene is when Dany takes Yunkai. Then two/three chapters later she conquers Meereen, and decides to stay there. So there is some B3 material to work with in S4. But still, it's not a lot, it is likely that they will pull some material from ADWD to fill her time in S4 (Personally, I like the scene of her locking up her dragons as a final scene for her, especially if it's contrasted with Tyrion and Victarion heading towards her).

I think they'll probably just add more complications to her taking Meereen, like they tried to do with her stay in Qarth in season 2.

[Sasha Steelsong]

Calm down, Sasha. I never "professed" to be "so well versed in the books". It's been a while since I read them. Oberyn aside, I still don't think the PW will be this season. I personally think they would be shoving way too much into one season.

You are right but let's keep our pants on about it.

Sorry if it came off as being directed at you, it wasn't really. Just general frustration that people kept repeating as fact the incorrect details as a reason for why the PW won't be this season. I personally go back and forth in when I think it will be (not beyond epi 3 of season 4 but not sure beyond that), but that it won't happen because Oberyn is a wedding guest is never a factor in my evaluation because that is never why he is coming to KL.

[YouSnowNothing]

Sorry if it came off as being directed at you, it wasn't really. Just general frustration that people kept repeating as fact the incorrect details as a reason for why the PW won't be this season. I personally go back and forth in when I think it will be (not beyond epi 3 of season 4 but not sure beyond that), but that it won't happen because Oberyn is a wedding guest is never a factor in my evaluation because that is never why he is coming to KL.

But the main problem with Oberyn not attending the wedding is not why he is coming to KL, but that a version of events where Oberyn is not in KL when Tyrion is arrested comes across as far more contrived and convenient than the books.

[Daemon Dagoghlor]

Dany Conquers Yunkai. Jon defends the Wall. Cat gets the kiss of life from Beric.

[Sasha Steelsong]

But the main problem with Oberyn not attending the wedding is not why he is coming to KL, but that a version of events where Oberyn is not in KL when Tyrion is arrested comes across as far more contrived and convenient than the books.

How so? Oberyn never really cares if Tyrion is guilty or not, he just wants a chance to kill the Mountain which does not require that he be at the wedding. But that was not my point in the post you were responding to. My point was simple, the people who say that Oberyn was going to KL to attend the wedding and therefore the wedding can't happen without Oberyn are wrong on their basic facts and they insist on repeating the incorrect information. The wedding can totally happen without Oberyn, just like the sacking of Winterfell could happen without the Reeds; he is just not necessary for the event.

[CrypticWeirwood]

How so? Oberyn never really cares if Tyrion is guilty or not, he just wants a chance to kill the Mountain which does not require that he be at the wedding. But that was not my point in the post you were responding to. My point was simple, the people who say that Oberyn was going to KL to attend the wedding and therefore the wedding can't happen without Oberyn are wrong on their basic facts and they insist on repeating the incorrect information. The wedding can totally happen without Oberyn, just like the sacking of Winterfell could happen without the Reeds; he is just not necessary for the event.

Oberyn went to King’s Landing for vengeance. By the time he and Gregor killed each other, Tywin was already a dead man walking.

[Khal-a-bunga]

The issue - for me, personally - isn't really about the reason that Oberyn goes to King's Landing. I think it's important that he get there prior to the royal wedding, because he's one of the best characters in the entire series, and it would be a shame to minimize his role in the show, rather than maximize it. Oberyn is a lot like Jaqen or Syrio (although, in terms of the narrative, I'd say he's more 'important' than either of them), in that he is a bad ass character who will only be around for one season. More importantly, he's the character best suited to bringing Dorne into the main story line of the show in a way that will excite and interest viewers. His fight with the Mountain was probably the highlight of A Storm of Swords for me. It was so intense - it was like I could feel his hatred for Gregor. And when he died, I was shocked. I thought the Red Viper was in it for the long haul (or, at least, longer than he actually was).

So, yeah; even if Oberyn doesn't come to King's Landing for the wedding itself in the books, I still think it's 99.9% certain that he'll be introduced prior to the Purple Wedding, as he was in the books. Mace Tyrell - who has already been name dropped - should also be present for the marriage of his daughter and the King of Westeros.

[mafalda]

Sorry if it came off as being directed at you, it wasn't really. Just general frustration that people kept repeating as fact the incorrect details as a reason for why the PW won't be this season. I personally go back and forth in when I think it will be (not beyond epi 3 of season 4 but not sure beyond that), but that it won't happen because Oberyn is a wedding guest is never a factor in my evaluation because that is never why he is coming to KL.

It's cool. I know. I sped through all five books when I read them so my details are hazy. I do that with everything I read then go back and reread them. But goodness those books required time, dedication, and effort (it's not even how long they are.. it's the amount of characters and the fact that the books can be overly descriptive sometimes!) Now that I realize that bit of info you shared, it is possible for PW to happen this season. I just don't want it to because I feel like DD would be cramming way too much into this season. They should spread it out. We already have Dany sacking cities, Red Wedding, Tyrion&Sansa's wedding, the catastrophe at Caster's keep, jon climbing walls, sam slaying white walkers, fights with flaming swords, etc this season. We need to save something for next season besides just the trial. I can't remember what else happens after the PW besides the trial and escape, Jaime returning, and the madness at the Eyrie. I also feel like there was a bit of time between RW and PW, and if RW is in ep9, it would be way too quick for PW to be the very next episode. Come on, DD, don't rush it.. take your time!

The issue - for me, personally - isn't really about the reason that Oberyn goes to King's Landing. I think it's important that he get there prior to the royal wedding, because he's one of the best characters in the entire series, and it would be a shame to minimize his role in the show, rather than maximize it. Oberyn is a lot like Jaqen or Syrio (although, in terms of the narrative, I'd say he's more 'important' than either of them), in that he is a bad ass character who will only be around for one season. More importantly, he's the character best suited to bringing Dorne into the main story line of the show in a way that will excite and interest viewers. His fight with the Mountain was probably the highlight of A Storm of Swords for me. It was so intense - it was like I could feel his hatred for Gregor. And when he died, I was shocked. I thought the Red Viper was in it for the long haul (or, at least, longer than he actually was).

So, yeah; even if Oberyn doesn't come to King's Landing for the wedding itself in the books, I still think it's 99.9% certain that he'll be introduced prior to the Purple Wedding, as he was in the books. Mace Tyrell - who has already been name dropped - should also be present for the marriage of his daughter and the King of Westeros.

Agreed with everything! Esp the intensity of the fight. I felt eveything; his love for his sister, his hatred for the Mountain (I really hope they fix him on the show! I understand S1 mountain was very grunt and roar, but s2 mountain was so unintimidating!!) his need for revenge... I just KNEW he was gonna win because why kill such a cool character, especially right after introducing them??

[Zarniwoop]

Some shows have the BIG episode before the last one, that way the finale episode is more of a closer than a mere shocker (i.e The Wire).

Im fine with that because if the PW will be in this season will be a catastrophy in so many ways.

Episode 10 title tells us it will be around Danny mostly so no time cramming that PW.

And NOT making the PW at all and finding another way to off him will be a dick move and a stupid one at that!

[Doctor Steve Brule]

In the modified words of Tywin...

This is HBO......They will blueball the narrative arc to the bitter end...and then some.

It makes no fiscal sense for HBO to not bank on the magnitude of emotion and honest uproar the RW will cause.

Bthis kind of tv preys on the magnitude of big, series changing events in every drama they've done. There's two eps of buildup, an ep where it happens, and three episodes(maybe split) regarding the fallback of said event. that's how hbo(and a frankly longwinded series like ASOIAF) works