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Am I missing Something about the Great Other?


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#1 Sir Noone Sword Of The Day

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:55 AM

Am I missing something? I have heard a lot of talk throughout the forums that a character will confront the Great Other (mainly Jon or Bran).
I don't understand where this is coming from (or how this would actually occur)
Personally I don't even think we will see 'The Great Other' otherwise wouldn't it be possible to encounter R'hllor, physically?

#2 Alexander Stark

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:37 AM

There is something that Bran saw whilst unconscious in Game of Thrones in the Land of Always Winter that probably needs destroying

#3 The Dornishman's Wife

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:49 AM

Though I doubt that this "something" has much to do with the one-person devil that Melisandre imagines. Could just as well be the city of the White Walkers or something.

And if they happen to have a single leader, I doubt he has ever even heard of R'hllor.

#4 FittleLinger

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:13 AM

Am I missing something? I have heard a lot of talk throughout the forums that a character will confront the Great Other (mainly Jon or Bran).
I don't understand where this is coming from (or how this would actually occur)
Personally I don't even think we will see 'The Great Other' otherwise wouldn't it be possible to encounter R'hllor, physically?


Yep, you're missing that people tend to believe in physical gods, both about real world, and about ASOIAF, for some reason.

Of course we won't be seing a uber-Other god... Or any god for that matter.

#5 lady m

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:46 AM

Well, there's also no solid evidence that The Others and The Great Other are the same thing. This might be GRRM playing semantical word games.

#6 FittleLinger

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:52 AM

Well, there's also no solid evidence that The Others and The Great Other are the same thing. This might be GRRM playing semantical word games.



Yes, this too. She mentiones Great Other and people imagine... A big Other. I doubt they would have if his name was J'rhmolo or something. Just like they don't imagine Rhlorr as a big dragon.

#7 DarkSnow

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:01 AM

I think this is true that people miss interrupt it as a being, i think the battle will be the followers of Rhollor and The Others who follow the Great Others. If their is a "Significant Other" it might be a priest of The Great Other the same a Rhollor being represented by the Red priest mostly Mel at the moment.

#8 Morienthar

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:22 AM

I never imagined the Gods in the ASOIAF universe to be like the ones from the Middle Earth or the TES universe they haven't been known to have any real direct influence on the world....

#9 Young Nan

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:04 AM

Yeah I don't get it either. Melisandre is the only person who talks about the "great other" because it's the evil counterpart of Rh'llor. That doesn't mean theres actually going to be a great other in the story, people just associate it with the "others". I doubt we're meeting any deities in the story.

But thats the cause for all the theories about who the great other is. its funny because there are other religions in the books that people don't expect will turn out to be a person. you never see theories like "euron greyjoy is the storm god, and here's why" or "who is the smith". Just because Melisandre sees bloodraven in a vision and ties it to the others doesn't mean there is a great other, she's just a fanatic.

#10 lady m

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:39 AM

I think this is true that people miss interrupt it as a being, i think the battle will be the followers of Rhollor and The Others who follow the Great Others. If their is a "Significant Other" it might be a priest of The Great Other the same a Rhollor being represented by the Red priest mostly Mel at the moment.


This presumes R'hllor is a force for good in world, which again, not a presumption I make.

#11 Makes No Sansa

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:49 AM

Why the hell do people believe Rh'llor is the one true God just because it's related to fire? I think Melisandre is an idiot who has no idea what she's talking about. Sure she sees things in her flames, but she doesn't even interpretate them properly.

Sorry, I just happen to hate all this R'hllor vs The Great Other thing people think the series will be about in the end. We haven't seen such thing as a supernatural God showing up, what makes you think we will in the next two books? And why should it be R'hllor's followers? Do you really think Jon Snow will follow R'hllor? I think you're completely wrong.

#12 DarkSnow

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:53 AM

This presumes R'hllor is a force for good in world, which again, not a presumption I make.

I'm not saying that R'hllor is the force of good, but is the god of Fire.

#13 Groat

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:55 AM

Sorry, I just happen to hate all this R'hllor vs The Great Other thing people think the series will be about in the end. We haven't seen such thing as a supernatural God showing up, what makes you think we will in the next two books?


What do you call Bran looking through the eyes of the weirwood trees? He my not be as infallable and "god-like" as what we would normally think of as a god, but it seems to me Bran and Bloodraven are the old gods that the North worships.

#14 Little and Less

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

I've always had the feeling that GRRM is trying to show us that the masses will believe what they want to believe...."power resides...ya-ya"....but in the end there really is no one true religion. And people will base their interpretation of "God(s)" the way they want to believe it, whether its a force of all good, all bad, and/or all powerful.
I think the red comet was GRRM's way of foreshadowing the whole question of religion in Westeros (North and South) and the Free cities and that it can be interpreted any number of ways. One person's "Great Other" is another person's "Stranger" - it doesn't necessarily manifests itself in an actual physical/magical being.

Religion has always been just that, it gives people an outlet for hope in a grim and sometimes harsh world.

Edited by Little and Less, 16 April 2013 - 12:19 PM.


#15 Reek Da Villain

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:19 PM

Well, I think we can all agree that the Others are intelligent beings. And someone must be commanding their legions.

#16 lady m

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:24 PM

I'm not saying that R'hllor is the force of good, but is the god of Fire.


Ah, okay. I don't believe that either.

#17 Black Crow

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:42 PM

There is something that Bran saw whilst unconscious in Game of Thrones in the Land of Always Winter that probably needs destroying


No, he saw something that made him cry out in fear but we're never told what that was. Given that everything else he saw in that vision was more or less in real time, my own theory is that he cried out in fear not because he saw the demon king surrounded by the legions of hell, but because he saw the future.

#18 DarkSnow

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:45 PM

No, he saw something that made him cry out in fear but we're never told what that was. Given that everything else he saw in that vision was more or less in real time, my own theory is that he cried out in fear not because he saw the demon king surrounded by the legions of hell, but because he saw the future.

What don't you believe, that R'hllor Is the God of fire? Or That R'hllor is good.

#19 locke and key

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:26 PM

I think the red priest actually make up a lot of rhlors powers using sorcery like glamours and shadow babies, i don't think there is a real great other or real rhlor, they're just explanations for the magic in the world.

#20 Leap

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:15 PM

Well, I don't think we'll be encountering any God physically. At the most we might see some sort of manifestation of their power (something beyond Melisandre's cool but fairly minor abilities (and by minor, I mean relative to a God)). Personally, I think this will probably be something to do with the Old Gods, because as much as R'hllor has been a fairly large part of the series, he was introduced quite a bit after the Old Gods and the Seven, and we don't have many POV chapters from those who follow that faith - which leads me to believe that it is not neccessarily the side of good, or that we as the reader are supposed to endorse.


What do you call Bran looking through the eyes of the weirwood trees? He my not be as infallable and "god-like" as what we would normally think of as a god, but it seems to me Bran and Bloodraven are the old gods that the North worships.


This would be a really good point, but it doesn't explain why the CotF, historically greenseers and wargs themselves, would also worship the Old Gods if they themselves shared the same bond with Weirwood trees as Bran and Bloodraven did. It's not impossible, I just think it is implausible especially for a story in which Gods such as R'hllor appear to have manifestations of power beyond that of individuals who happen to be different and think it's because of their God.


I'm not saying that R'hllor is the force of good, but is the god of Fire.


Yes, R'hllor is the God of Fire but I think his name as part of 'A Song of Ice and Fire' is a red herring. For a start, I think that Jon is the eventual protagonist because he is a descendent of the Targaryens (with indisputably strong associations with fire) and the Starks ( Again, associated with Ice because of climate, the family sword and general personality. Also, many people believe he will go through some sort of 'rebirth', which could well be a metaphor for Snow hardening into Ice. ''Kill the boy, and let the man be born''). Also there's all that crap about Rhaegar and his son - various prophecies etc...
Next, Martin has stated in an interview that he wanted the story to have an ending comparable with Tolkien's that he felt had ''satisfying resonance'', which I really do not think applies in a context where the Gods that our POV characters worship are uprooted by a foreign God with bitchy followers.


So far as ''The Great Other'' goes, I think it is completely possible that Jon (or whoever) will have some great opponent to face, but I think it will be a fine line for George to walk. On the one hand, he has thus far mostly kept the magic in it to a minimum and perhaps the story's realism will be undone the higher the fantasy goes (I'm going to get the exclusive rights to that phrase if I can), but on the other hand it might be a little underwhelming if the story doesn't get some sort of strong resolution or ''satisfying resonance''.