Little Questions That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

[Arry Lannister]

I'm gonna join in, just one really simple question. What do you think of Alfie's performance as Reek? (I have no doubts that he has done a good job but it's nice to have confirmation. :bowdown: )

P.S [i'm really sorry for bugging you, but Theon is my favorite character]

[Rashtibram]

Yeah, sorry for all the questions, but...as Konradsmith said, having someone here at Westeros.org who has actually seen the first three episodes (not just the premiere) is a pretty big deal.

How far does Dany's story get in the episodes you've seen? Does she arrive at Meereen? Is the duel in 4x03?

[Lord Varys]

Oh, totally forgotten about that, very important question:

Does the assassination attempt on Bran come up during the wedding feast/breakfast? According to book, Joff would say 'I'm not stranger to Valyrian steel' when he gets his new sword made of Ice fro Tywn, and then Tyrion would realize that Joff was behind the attempt on Bran's life. Did any of that make it into the show?

On the Shae thing:

I always said that Shae was a survivor, and that they will play the 'I feel abandoned' card with her. After Sansa disappears, and Tyrion is arrested, she will be alone again, the innocent victim in a game Tyrion and Sansa played together (murdering Joffrey - I'm sure she may believe that one of them did it, or both of them. And no one ever said that book Shae eagerly testified against Tyrion. We don't ever get her POV, but it's most likely was Cersei saying 'Do that, and you'll keep your life and a get a reward. Refuse, and I'll see you ripped to pieces after severe public humiliation and torture.'

A sort of personal, nickname related question:

Anything on Varys? What does he did during the first three episodes? Any council meeting? A talk with Olenna/Margaery, Jaime, Tyrion, Tywin, or Oberyn?

And a last Martell question:

Any mentioning of either Doran, Arianne, Quentyn, or Trystane? Any news on how Myrcella is faring in Dorne? Are any of Oberyn's daughters, the Sand Snakes, mentioned? It seems that the scenes with Tywin/Cersei talking to Ellaria/Oberyn from the Costume special implied that Ellaria has born Oberyn children...

[Gran de Lys]

You are quite right, Newstar. To you and Colonel Green:

Sansa knows nothing about the escape. Before the PW, she flounces away from Tyrion to go to the Godswood, not for prayer but because "It's the only place no one tries to talk to me." Dontos is hulking and cringing around there and gives her the jewels. It's clear she's not expecting to meet him and hasn't been plotting her escape with him all this time. The actual escape happens very quickly--Dontos pulls her away, rows her out to a ghost ship, where she's surprised to see Baelish, Petyr shoots Dontos with an arrow. It's another in a long string of things that happen to her and she has no idea why.

The Jaime complication I was thinking of is not the one you mentioned, but that happens too. Jaime is done with returning people because he wants to stay in KL with Cersei (and in case you're wondering about their deathbed-side reunion, it's as gross as you're imagining). Brienne is all "But, honor, ser!" about it and Jaime is all "Pfft, honor."

I saw no indication that Tywin realizes Joffrey was behind the attempt on Bran's life. Joff just swings his sword around like the dick he is and says a lot of arrogant, inaccurate things.

[Rashtibram]

You are quite right, Newstar. To you and Colonel Green:

Sansa knows nothing about the escape. Before the PW, she flounces away from Tyrion to go to the Godswood, not for prayer but because "It's the only place no one tries to talk to me." Dontos is hulking and cringing around there and gives her the jewels. It's clear she's not expecting to meet him and hasn't been plotting her escape with him all this time. The actual escape happens very quickly--Dontos pulls her away, rows her out to a ghost ship, where she's surprised to see Baelish, Petyr shoots Dontos with an arrow. It's another in a long string of things that happen to her and she has no idea why.

The Jaime complication I was thinking of is not the one you mentioned, but that happens too. Jaime is done with returning people because he wants to stay in KL with Cersei (and in case you're wondering about their deathbed-side reunion, it's as gross as you're imagining). Brienne is all "But, honor, ser!" about it and Jaime is all "Pfft, honor."

I saw no indication that Tywin realizes Joffrey was behind the attempt on Bran's life. Joff just swings his sword around like the dick he is and says a lot of arrogant, inaccurate things.

To Sansa: that's unfortunate, it's just going to escalate the Sansa-fan outrage and D&D bashing.

The Bran-assassin thing…also too bad, but it's a minor thing that TV audiences probably wouldn't really remember anyway. As long as they don't cut the LF reveal (about Jon Arryn) I'll be happy.

[Gran de Lys]

Arry: This is hardly a spoiler, but

Alfie is extraordinary as Reek. The test to prove to Roose that he is broken is just jaw-dropping and tear-inducing. Alfie has a stillness to his acting that evokes both the sorrow of his situation and ignites the hope that he's keeping a kernel of the Prince of the Iron Islands inside him.

Rickon of the North:

Sorry, thought I indicated this. Dany gets to Meereen and they send their champion to fight. Jorah, Grey Worm and Barristan are all "Me! Me!" but of course she sends her secret boyfriend out. I believe the duel is in E3.[/

Lord Varys:

Yeah, but no one asked Shae to jump into Tywin's bed. Her motives were always shady, but I'm not sure I like the very clear motive she's been given on the show--feeling betrayed by her one true love.

Martell stuff:

There is only Cersei fretting that her daughter is far away in Dorne; no mention of her state. The Sand Snakes come up in banter about how Oberyn and Ellaria and presumably everyone else in Dorne bangs anything that moves. They are shown to be very decadent and bisexual to a parodic degree, but at least we see some young boy-butt.

I'll be back with more after my massage. :drunk:

[King Tommen]

If the show ever wants to solve the Bran assassin mystery (which isn't really necessary but for closure's sake), it makes more sense for LF to reveal it as part of his grand "initiate chaos" plan. He's already admitted that it was his blade, he could have just lied to Catelyn about the rest.

I never really understood why Martin had it revealed that Joffrey was the one who commissioned the assassin. It didn't really make a lot of sense and felt like Martin saying "hmmm, I should close off this plot point" without coming up with a particularly good answer.

[HairGrowsBack]

Gran de Lys, on 21 Mar 2014 - 2:36 PM,

said:

The Jaime complication I was thinking of is not the one you mentioned, but

that happens too. Jaime is done with returning people because he wants

to stay in KL with Cersei (and in case you're wondering about their

deathbed-side reunion, it's as gross as you're imagining). Brienne is all "But,

honor, ser!" about it and Jaime is all "Pfft, honor."

.

So this is the complication ? I'm not sure I like it... Don't screw this up, guys :bang:

Oh and thank you for this, you're a peach.

[King Tommen]

So this is the complication ? I'm not sure I like it... Don't screw this up, guys :bang:

Oh and thank you for this, you're a peach.

The 4th episode (which Lys has not seen) is called "Oathkeeper" and is where Jaime gives Brienne her his sword and new armor and sends her on her quest so it's pretty clear if he was waffling initially, he has a change of heart.

[HairGrowsBack]

The 4th episode (which Lys has not seen) is called "Oathkeeper" and is where Jaime gives Brienne her his sword and new armor and sends her on her quest so it's pretty clear if he was waffling initially, he has a change of heart.

Oh yes, definitely, but Jaime making a 380° spin feels weird. Of course I can't tell until we've actually seen the episodes , but I was hoping for a more subtle approach. Now , again, that's just based on Lys' impressions, I'll settle my opinion once I've seen those episodes.

[King Tommen]

Oh yes, definitely, but Jaime making a 380° spin feels weird. Of course I can't tell until we've actually seen the episodes , but I was hoping for a more subtle approach. Now , again, that's just based on Lys' impressions, I'll settle my opinion once I've seen those episodes.

From what's been said about the first couple episodes, Jaime arriving back in King's Landing is conflicting. He's had a bunch of character growth in his time with Brienne but he's also excited to be reunited with Cersei and her less than enthusiastic reaction to him is awkward and conflicting for him. He wants to please her and get things back to the way they were but she's being cold. I think to compensate he's probably going to try and pretend (and even convince himself) that he's the same guy who left her which is why it would be awkward with Brienne now as she's a reminder of how he's changed. I think we'll see him pushing Brienne away initially as more of a front he's putting up so that he can get himself back to where he thinks he needs to be with Cersei.

My best guess is the crypt sex moment in E3 will be the turning point for him to realize this relationship is toxic (he seems pretty disgusted with himself in the scene) and that he should recognize that he's a changed man now which is why in the following episode, he'll be more resolved to follow through on what he and Brienne started.

Again, we'll have to see the way this plays out but I think there's enough evidence here to suggest that's the way it's going to be portrayed.

[Lord Varys]

It makes no sense to assume that Littlefinger was behind the attempt on Bran's life, since Littlefinger would have had first no motive because he could not foresee Bran's fall (he wasn't there, after all, and any agent of his could not have had the means to communicate with him in time), nor would Littlefinger have charged such an amateur with such an important task (let alone allowed that a blade that was once in his possession be used in the attempt)!

On the Purple Wedding's aftermath:

What happens after Joff's death in episode 3 in KL? Are the Tyrells already trying to pitch the Tommen-Margaery marriage? How do Margaery, Olenna, and Mace react to the murder? Do the Tyrell girls nail their 'we are not involved, poor, poor Joffrey' routine? What about Tywin and Cersei? Any clashes over him not being able to prevent the murder of his grandson?

[HairGrowsBack]

From what's been said about the first couple episodes, Jaime arriving back in King's Landing is conflicting. He's had a bunch of character growth in his time with Brienne but he's also excited to be reunited with Cersei and her less than enthusiastic reaction to him is

awkward and conflicting for him. He wants to please her and get things back to the way they were but she's being cold. I think to compensate he's probably going to try and pretend (and even convince himself) that he's the same guy who left her which is why it would be awkward with Brienne now as she's a reminder of how he's changed. I think we'll see him pushing Brienne away initially as more of a front he's putting up so that he can get himself back to where he thinks he needs to be with Cersei.

My best guess is the crypt sex moment in E3 will be the turning point for him to realize this relationship is toxic (he seems pretty disgusted with himself in the scene) and that he should recognize that he's a changed man now which is why in the following episode, he'll be more resolved to follow through on what he and Brienne started.

Again, we'll have to see the way this plays out but I think there's enough evidence here to suggest that's the way it's going to be portrayed.

Bring on the awkwardness ! I'm ready !

If it plays out that way, I'll be very much happy. And that would be sticking to the books, which doesn't hurt.

[Colonel Green]

You are quite right, Newstar. To you and Colonel Green:

Sansa knows nothing about the escape. Before the PW, she flounces away from Tyrion to go to the Godswood, not for prayer but because "It's the only place no one tries to talk to me." Dontos is hulking and cringing around there and gives her the jewels. It's clear she's not expecting to meet him and hasn't been plotting her escape with him all this time. The actual escape happens very quickly--Dontos pulls her away, rows her out to a ghost ship, where she's surprised to see Baelish, Petyr shoots Dontos with an arrow. It's another in a long string of things that happen to her and she has no idea why.

Sigh. Well, there goes any enthusiasm I had for Sansa's story this year. At least my instincts were correct.

[King Tommen]

It makes no sense to assume that Littlefinger was behind the attempt on Bran's life, since Littlefinger would have had first no motive because he could not foresee Bran's fall (he wasn't there, after all, and any agent of his could not have had the means to communicate with him in time), nor would Littlefinger have charged such an amateur with such an important task (let alone allowed that a blade that was once in his possession be used in the attempt)!

It's such a stupid coincidence that LF owned the knife in the first place, it makes far more sense that he actually was involved in the plot. His lie about losing it to Tyrion worked out perfectly fine in the books, not sure why he couldn't just anticipate that being the case on the show. You could easily have a story where Petyr wanted to initiate something in Winterfell from afar using an agent to make it eventually look like a Lannister assassination. The Bran fall could just be a fortuitous development where the plan all along was to have a young Stark murdered and make it look like a Lannister did it.

Logistics aside, Joffrey being the one to commission the assassin is silly and doesn't appear to be what Martin intended when he wrote AGoT (maybe he didn't even know at that point) so when the clumsy half assed reveal comes later on, it's papered over and essentially ignored because Martin hadn't really done anything to set it up in the first book.

LF being involved somehow makes much more sense. If you can write it so it's plausible, then you do it. Otherwise don't even address it (which might be what the show does).

[HairGrowsBack]

Sigh. Well, there goes any enthusiasm I had for Sansa's story this year. At least my instincts were correct.

Damn I was really thinking... nah I can't even act surprised.

[Lord Varys]

King Tommen,

it's quite clear that the assassin was paid to grant Bran a merciful death, he even says so in both the book and the show. 'It's a mercy' or something like that. The books did not really indicate that the attempt on Bran was a Lannister thing, and the show most certainly did not (the scene with Jaime claiming that they could outwit a ten-year-old confirms as much).

I also don't see how Littlefinger's agent should have been able to steal/acquire a knife belonged to the King. Trying to steal it would have been risky - meaning that Littlefinger would not have tried to do such a thing, especially not if the blade now owned by the king was once his own weapon.

All the clues to Joffrey are still there in the first novel. Robert bragging about killing Bran would have been a mercy, Cersei and Jaime not being stupid enough to try to kill him that way.

Littlefinger jumped on a chance when Cat came to the capital, but what would have happened if they had tracked down the origins of that blade through different channels (say, by waiting, and writing Ned about the whole incident, not by coming down to KL herself). Such an investigation could have led the investigators right at Littlefinger's door, if they had found out that it was his blade... Only by freely admitting that it once belonged to him got he off the hook. But if no one had asked him, it could have went very bad for him.

Whereas the whole Joff thing seems adds another layer to Joffrey's personality: He was not trying to be cruel and evil, he intended to be as brave as his father (by doing what Robert thought should be done), and he intended to be kind by putting a dying/sick child out of his misery (just as one would put an animal).

[Colonel Green]

Littlefinger jumped on a chance when Cat came to the capital, but what would have happened if they had tracked down the origins of that blade through different channels (say, by waiting, and writing Ned about the whole incident, not by coming down to KL herself). Such an investigation could have led the investigators right at Littlefinger's door, if they had found out that it was his blade... Only by freely admitting that it once belonged to him got he off the hook.

Littlefinger wouldn't have been in any jeopardy there. All he had to say was the truth, that he had lost the blade to King Robert in a bet, which could be easily confirmed.

You are quite right, Newstar. To you and Colonel Green

Thanks again for that information. As a followup, if you're willing. Regarding Sansa:

Does she do anything at all during the wedding episode, or is she just standing around as usual? Anything that might be construed as manipulating people or trying to get back at the Lannisters? Any meaningful scenes of her own?

[King Tommen]

I just think the whole aspect where (by massive coincidence) the murder weapon actually used to belonged to LF and he has to quickly cover for that stretches the bounds of suspension of belief.

It makes far more sense that if the weapon did belong to him that he played an active role in the plot somehow and he has worked out lies to cover up that fact when it does come back to him. It's the event that kicks off the whole War of Five Kings that plays a part in the chaos he wants to initiate and he has absolutely nothing to do with it?

The Joffrey motivation falls apart if you think about it too much. Him giving mercy to anyone is a direct contradiction of his character makeup and even in the books, he's revealed to be a budding psychopath who likes to torture animals. It wouldn't even occur to him to do something like that for Bran. So that leaves us with him desperately wanting to gain acceptance from Robert, which is true. But if that's the case, why would he do this when it's obvious he won't be able to let Robert know that he was trying to please him? It can only be a secret so he's not going to accomplish anything from it.

I think Martin went back to AGoT when trying to come up with a reason Joff would do it in ASoS and got the Robert "mercy" reasoning but since it doesn't really hold, Tyrion (or Jaime later) don't dwell on it too much and they very quickly move on. The revelation doesn't even really help move any kind of plot along. You would think if Joff doing this was important, the info would go to Sansa to provide her with more anguish or something like that. Tyrion doesn't really do anything with the info and then he basically forgets about it after Joff dies so it comes off as Martin simply closing off a plot hole for no other reason then to provide an answer.

I would be shocked if most book readers reacted to that revelation with "Wow, cool twist, why didn't I see that at the time, it makes sense now." as opposed to "Huh. Well I suppose that could have happened. Kind of weird that it was Joffrey though." I'm thinking the latter was much closer to the general reaction than the former.

[Colonel Green]

I would be shocked if most book readers reacted to that revelation with "Wow, cool twist, why didn't I see that at the time, it makes sense now." as opposed to "Huh. Well I suppose that could have happened. Kind of weird that it was Joffrey though." I'm thinking the latter was much closer to the general reaction than the former.

I had pretty much forgotten about that mystery by that point, so it didn't have much impact either way. I just hope that the other answers to mysteries in the series are handled better than that one.