jaimecersei Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Not that he can do anything about it, but I hope GRRM has a screener of this. Or...someone who can make an attempt to get them to throw in some adr to fix it or something...I think dubious consent could play, but full on rape? No. And Jaime raping Cersei? No. Out of character. One of the most anti-rape characters in the books committing rape on the show is the worst thing I've heard about the show. I've heard Gran de Lys's opinion echoed through another channel from someone with screeners. It sounds as though this is not just one person's interpretation. Did Elio and Linda get screeners this year? its definitely out of character for jaime to rape cersei. but its ALSO out of character for cersei to be SO viciously cold to jaime. 1.) in the books it WAS NOT cersei who made him get the golden hand 2.) her first natural response towards him losing his hand was worry and concern 3.) she only insulted jaime's stump two or three times when she was mad at him 4.) jaime arrived way afterwards and cersei hadn't denied him sex for weeks you can make whatever excused you want but the scene sounds like rape to me. show!jaime is physically stronger than cersei. he can easily empower her. the fact that she NEVER CONSENTS means it is rape imo. gran de lys is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Let's delay the outrage until it airs though. It sounds like it'll be hella divisive not just among sullied but probably everyone. As it should be. But what we ought to be doing is gleaning info. about every other scene in the first three eps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickren Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 you can make whatever excused you want but the scene sounds like rape to me. show!jaime is physically stronger than cersei. he can easily empower her. the fact that she NEVER CONSENTS means it is rape imo. gran de lys is right I completely agree. In the books, Cersei protests about being caught, but she absolutely consents. This sounds like rape, and as I said, I've heard from another source that they interpreted it the same way Gran de Lys did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Let's delay the outrage until it airs But what we ought to be doing is gleaning info. about every other scene in the first three eps. THIS!! We've got our invaluable Source right here, right now. :bowdown: There'll be plenty of time later after we've seen the episode to offer opinions on the altar sex. Folks, please, don't run this thread off track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Guys, what do you expect? This show made Drogo rape Dany. It was perfectly clear that Jaime would rape or appear to rape Cersei. Why not? And I'm not so sure that book Jaime is no rapist. He loves and wants Cersei. In a society like Westeros men take want they want, and that was always the modus operandi of Jaime's relationship to Cersei. He had to come to her, he had to take her, to actively conquer her. And she always played the innocent girl who did not want to have sex with him. But I'll have to wait and see if that whole thing is fucked. Because as it's been pointed out, it's totally against Jaime's entire characterisation. Even if we discard his book characterisation, it makes no sense in the context of the show, since last season he saved Brienne from rape and how he's the one doing it on another woman. If you think book!Jaime would ever rape Cersei we're really disagreeing as well, because there are several examples in which it's clear he's disgusted by it and he wouldn't do it, and I can back up that with text, not just with my personal interpretation of him. Let's delay the outrage until it airs though. It sounds like it'll be hella divisive not just among sullied but probably everyone. As it should be. But what we ought to be doing is gleaning info. about every other scene in the first three eps. Lol, well the good thing of knowing it now is that I can skip that bit, since you can't unwatch it once it's done. But yeah. Gross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 If I know one thing about this site, discussions about sex and how faithfully their favourite characters are portrayed are always really informative and well thought out and not at all alarmist and overwrought. Looking forward to some really insightful thoughts on these matters. There will be no hyperbole whatsoever as well. I think I know these people well enough to say that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I completely agree. In the books, Cersei protests about being caught, but she absolutely consents. This sounds like rape, and as I said, I've heard from another source that they interpreted it the same way Gran de Lys did. could you give me a link to the other source please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickren Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 could you give me a link to the other source please? No. That source is not on record. Because as it's been pointed out, it's totally against Jaime's entire characterisation. Even if we discard his book characterisation, it makes no sense in the context of the show, since last season he saved Brienne from rape and how he's the one doing it on another woman. If you think book!Jaime would ever rape Cersei we're really disagreeing as well, because there are several examples in which it's clear he's disgusted by it and he wouldn't do it, and I can back up that with text, not just with my personal interpretation of him. Lol, well the good thing of knowing it now is that I can skip that bit, since you can't unwatch it once it's done. But yeah. Gross. Yes, at least we know so we can skip it. Unfortunately, show fans will have no other characterisation to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 If I know one thing about this site, discussions about sex and how faithfully their favourite characters are portrayed are always really informative and well thought out and not at all alarmist and overwrought. Looking forward to some really insightful thoughts on these matters. There will be no hyperbole whatsoever as well. I think I know these people well enough to say that much. It'll be wonderful, get ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 If I know one thing about this site, discussions about sex and how faithfully their favourite characters are portrayed are always really informative and well thought out and not at all alarmist and overwrought. Looking forward to some really insightful thoughts on these matters. There will be no hyperbole whatsoever as well. I think I know these people well enough to say that much. QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The froth and spume will flow when "Breaker of Chains" airs. I hope Gran de Lys deigns us with her timely return and sees the decent questions amongst this thread's own froth and spume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Gran, before the show started, back in our book threads, there was quite heated and extensive arguments about whether or not Ayra, a little girl, flat-out murdering people made her a psychopath. Some readers just hated her after the killing began, other justified it. When you saw that scene, what was your reaction to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gran de Lys Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Lord Varys, Yes, Olenna offers Sansa a chance to go to Highgarden. 2) No. I hope I've made it clear they want to keep the Unsullied in the dark and cast doubt on Tyrion and Sansa, so that a rewatch or explanation will show the culprit and many foreheads will be slapped by many hands. 3) Yes, Davos suggest the Golden Company and Stannis gets all tight-arsed about it and Davos is like, "Bitch, you'll use blood magic and burn people to get what you want but you won't hire people who are for hire?" Then later, Davos is with Shireen when she gives him an idea, and he asks her to draft a letter to the Iron Bank of Braavos. So we will def see Aegon and Jon Connington at some point. No other new locations besides Meereen and the Dreadfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 ^Is this when we get his line about "I won't be a page in someone else's history book"? I wonder if we'll maybe even SEE the Golden Company when Stan goes to Essos in the mid-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gran de Lys Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 King Tommen makes me larf, lol. I really didn't pop up in this thread to have an opinion; just relay information. But as a critic, opinion seeps through. So as to Iheartseverus's question, imo Arya is an interesting character. I think of her like Munny in Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven." What if God gave you a great gift, and that gift was to be a magnificent killer? Do you turn your back on your talent? Anne Rice did this with vampires too--we are the way we are made. And there is evil in our makeups to greater and lesser degrees. I love Arya's character and think that we were tipped to it from the first moment we met her--shooting that arrow into the target from behind Bran. She "flat-out murdered" someone trying to kill the Hound, who was her protector and, for all she knows, her only way of reaching her family at the Vale. And as for Polliver, I would have slid a sword into his throat as well. She is not Joffrey or Ramsay; she does not torture and inflict pain for fun. She kills, as people do in Westeros, in order to get things done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Gran de Lys Final Question: How does episode 3 end? what is the last scene?? Thank you so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gran de Lys Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 @ Obebb, not that I remember. She and Jojen look at each other in that knowing way, I think, is all. You know the way I mean? jaimecersei that has already been answered. Scroll back, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Kniphe Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thank you so much, Gran de Lys. :) One (or actually two) more questions: Does Brienne have a scene with Jaime at the PW?And what makes Brienne actually ask about her crush on Jaime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks again for answering all our questions, Gran de Lys. You're a rockstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Gran de Lys, It might have been lost in a little bit of the Jaime/Cersei reaction stuff but was there any mention or sign of Grenn and Edd or are they assumed to still be at Craster's? And does Jon make the decision to go there on his own or is it more of a challenge from Thorne to redeem himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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