The Text of the Kingsguard Vow

[Twinslayer]

So we are given the text of the Night's Watch oath, and some examples of oaths of fealty. But we are never given the text of the Kingsguard oath in one place. This thread is intended to cobble together the main pieces of the Kingsguard oath and then explore some issues of how it plays out in practice.

NOTE: EDITED TO ADD NEW QUOTES

The fullest statement of the Kingsguard oath comes from Barristan Selmy in ADWD:

The first duty of the Kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king's commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and keep silent when it was not, serve his pleasure and defend his name and honor. Strictly speaking, it was purely the king's choice whether or not to extend Kingsguard protection to others, even those of the royal blood. Some kings thought it right and proper to dispatch Kingsguard to serve and defend their wives and children, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins of greater and lesser degree, and occasionally even their lovers, mistresses and bastards.

So the oath includes (1) defend the king from harm or threat, (2) obey the king's commands; (3) keep the king's secrets; (4) counsel the king when requested, otherwise keep silent; (4) serve the king's pleasure; (5) defend the king's name and honor; and (6) if directed, provide kingsguard protection to family members, wives, lovers, mistresses and bastards.

Barristan seems to give some of the actual words concerning the "first duty" when he leaves the KG in AGOT:

Ser Gerold Hightower himself heard my vows . . . to ward the king with all my strength . . . to give my blood for his . . .

And Jaime has a dream where the dead KG and Rhaegar confront him:

"He was your king," said Darry.

"You swore to keep him safe," said Whent.

"And the children, them as well," said Prince Lewyn.

...

"The king you had sworn to die for."

So it includes dying for the king. And at least in the case of Rhaegar, the KG protection was extended to his children.

Jaime seems to give a summary when he's talking to Cat in Riverrun:

"So many vows . . . they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his."

There's more, but that seems to be the KG part, and while it is a shorter list than Barristan's, there is nothing inconsistent with Barristan's.

Jaime also tells Brienne in the bath scene:

The Knights of the Kingsguard are sworn to keep the king's secrets. Would you have me break my oath?

There is more from Barristan:

"I have heard in the Sunset Kingdoms men take solemn vows to keep chaste ..."

"It is," Arstan said, when the question was put. "There are many such orders. The maesters ... The septons ... The Kingsguard and the Night's Watch."

And basically we get the same thing from Arys Oakheart when he is being seduced and trying to resist:

"I swore a vow . . . "

". . . not to wed or father children."

So the vow includes chastity.

We also get this from Barristan, while Dany is in the Dothraki sea and Barristan is in Meereen:

If the queen had commanded me to protect Hizdahr, I would have no choice but to obey.

This emphasizes the importance of obedience and the ability to extend KG protection outside those born as Targaryens.

On the question who can give orders, there is this from Jaime Lannister to Jon Darry, after Rhaegar gives Jaime an order:

"When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey."

So in the case of Rhaegar, the KG swore to obey him as well as Aerys. This may be becuase Aerys chose to extend KG protection to Rhaegar or it may be automatic since Rhaegar was a Targ prince. I dont think this question is answered.

There is also a more general statement in The Hedge Knight:

Baelor took that calmly. "My brother erred when he demanded that the Kingsguard fight for his son. Their oath forbids them to harm a prince of the blood. Fortunately, I am such."

So not necessarily a statement that Baelor had KG protection, but at least that the KG could not harm him. This is probably not explicit in the vow.

There may be some confusion about whether the KG oath transfers automatically from one king to his heir. There's this, from Arys Oakheart:

"I swore an oath!"

"To Joffrey, not to Tommen."

"Aye..."

And this, from Barristan, when Robert dies:

Ser Barristan Selmy was the first to answer the summons, immaculate in white cloak and enameled scales. "My lords," he said, "my place is beside the young king now. Pray give me leave to attend him."

"Your place is here, Ser Barristan," Ned told him.

So Barristan had to ask for permission from the Hand and the Small Council to go to Robert's heir and when permission was denied he didn't go. This seems to indicate that either the Small Council or the Hand controls the KG until the new king is formally proclaimed. ***This one is controversial/may be open to interpretation. Oakheart may be talking himself into wriggling around the vow and the Barristan circumstances were a bit unusual***

Then there are a few instances where the KG are put on the horns of a dilemma, but this seems to happen in extreme -- or even unique -- circumstances. One is when Aerys orders Jaime to kill his own father, which would make Jaime a kinslayer. Jaime defies the order and kills Aerys instead. Another is when Cersei and Joffrey order Barristan to leave the KG -- literally ordering him to stop protecting the king. Barristan obeys the order.

So if we were to summarize the KG oath, it seems to be:

• Protect the king from harm or threat
• Provide the same KG protection to royals, lovers, mistresses and bastards (but only if so directed)
• Follow orders from the king, other royals, the Hand and the Small Council
• Serve the king's pleasure
• Keep the king's secrets
• Protect the king's name and honour
• Maintain chastity

There are a lot of interesting side topics to explore involving KG who had to interpret their vows in wierd situations, or break them, or break one vow to follow another. Before we get into that, are there other good quotes that should be added to this summary/other aspects of the vow that are left out here?

[mindchap]

They are sworn not to harm one of Royal blood, not just the king. That's how Baelor gets around the KG in Hedge Knight, when Maekor orders them to fight for him.

[Frey family reunion]

You forgot the most important oath, to bed really hot Dornish princesses.

[mindchap]

And here is the quote

“Not well, anyway,” laughed Ser Lyonel. “Against that, we have three of the White Swords to contend

with.”

Baelor took that calmly. “My brother erred when he demanded that the Kingsguard fight for his son.

Their oath forbids them to harm a prince of the blood. Fortunately, I am such.” He gave them a faint

smile. “Keep the others off me long enough, and I shall deal with the Kingsguard.”

“My prince, is that chivalrous?” asked Ser Lyonel Baratheon as the septon was finishing his invocation.

“The gods will let us know,” said Baelor Breakspear.

*a prince of the blood, sorry my mistake

[Twinslayer]

And here is the quote

*a prince of the blood, sorry my mistake

Excellent, thank you. This is exactly the kind of thing I am looking for. Let's see if there are other good quotes like this and I'll edit the OP to add them.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

He's trying to come up with an argument as to why the Kingsguard were at the Tower of Joy instead of with Viserys, if anyone's curious. He's already come to his conclusion and is looking for validation to back it up, instead of the other way around.

... in case anyone was wondering was the motive in all of this was.

[mindchap]

So now there have to be motives behind forum posts? What is this Law & Order?

[Morienthar]

I don't think it was vow for Sexual Abstinence,But rather to make sure they had no family or even bastards running around.

[Twinslayer]

He's trying to come up with an argument as to why the Kingsguard were at the Tower of Joy instead of with Viserys, if anyone's curious. He's already come to his conclusion and is looking for validation to back it up, instead of the other way around.

... in case anyone was wondering was the motive in all of this was.

No, the place for that discussion is the R+L=J thread. I hope this thread does not degenerate into that topic. For purposes of this thread, I'm more interested in things like why Jaime killed Aerys; why Margaery Tyrell is convinced that Loras will protect her from Joffrey; why Lewyn Martell didn't try to rescue Elia from Aerys when he had a Dornish army at his back; why Barristan chose to try to govern Meereen in Dany's absence when he obviously felt ill-equipped to do that; what Aemon the Dragonknight was up to; why did the Dance of the Dragons happen; why did Aegon the Conqueror need a kingsguard when he had dragons; what motivated young knights in Westeros to join the KG; and a lot of other fascinating topics besides. What the KG were doing at the TOJ is at most a tiny piece of all this. So it would be nice if we could avoid derailing this thread. If you want to talk about R+L=J, please take it to the stickied thread. This one is about the KG vow.

ETA -- For everyone else, I want to discuss all of these topics and more, but I am also very interested in other quotes about the KG vow like the one Mindchap provided. (If you don't have the quote but can point me in the right direction, that is great too).

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

So now there have to be motives behind forum posts? What is this Law & Order?

Just pointing out that his mind is already made up on the matter — which is clear if you've seen the R+L=J thread. The Kingsguard being at the Tower and why is a prime point of contention.

[Twinslayer]

You forgot the most important oath, to bed really hot Dornish princesses.

Yeah, that one is kind of interesting. Oakheart did it. And if you believe the tale, Lewyn Martell had a paramour. Jaime and Aemon the Dragonknight (maybe) did too.

I wonder if it was known to the other KG or Aerys and if so whether they minded. Was there a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, like with the Night's Watch and Mole's Town? Or was it okay to have a mistress as long as you didn't marry her or have children by her?

[mindchap]

They are also not allowed to protect anyone from the king.

The sight had filled him with disquiet, reminding him of Aerys Targaryen and the way a burning would arouse him. A king has no secrets from his Kingsguard. Relations between Aerys and his queen had been strained during the last years of his reign. They slept apart and did their best to avoid each other during the waking hours. But whenever Aerys gave a man to the flames, Queen Rhaella would have a visitor in the night. The day he burned his mace-and-dagger Hand, Jaime and Jon Darry had stood at guard outside her bedchamber whilst the king took his pleasure. “You’re hurting me,” they had heard Rhaella cry through the oaken door. “You’re hurting me.” In some queer way, that had been worse than Lord Chelsted’s screaming. “We are sworn to protect her as well,” Jaime had finally been driven to say. “We are,” Darry allowed, “but not from him.”

Jaime had only seen Rhaella once after that, the morning of the day she left for Dragonstone. The queen had been cloaked and hooded as she climbed inside the royal wheelhouse that would take her down Aegon’s High Hill to the waiting ship, but he heard her maids whispering after she was gone. They said the queen looked as if some beast had savaged her, clawing at her thighs and chewing on her breasts. A crowned beast, Jaime knew.

[Jabronius Maximus]

Just pointing out that his mind is already made up on the matter — which is clear if you've seen the R+L=J thread. The Kingsguard being at the Tower and why is a prime point of contention.

Well, the books don't really outline how valid the KG vows are when your king is dead, so I don't really see this thread as a critcism of R+L=J. If anything, Jaime continued to be a KG of the next king after Aerys' death. That seems to suggest that the KG vows transfer to the next king (Jaime didn't re-enlist did he?). So when the Big 3 stand their ground upon hearing of Aerys' and Rhaegar's deaths, their KG duty presumably transferred to Jon.

They are also not allowed to protect anyone from the king.

That's easily the worst part of the vow. I'm still surprised Jaime stood by and allowed that, and even more surprised he stood by while Aerys was cooking Rickard and killing Brandon. He finally broke his vow, but man how is the KG a position of honour when you essentially have to condone such despicable acts?

[corbon]

For purposes of this thread, I'm more interested in things like why Jaime killed Aerys; why Margaery Tyrell is convinced that Loras will protect her from Joffrey; why Lewyn Martell didn't try to rescue Elia from Aerys when he had a Dornish army at his back; why Barristan chose to try to govern Meereen in Dany's absence when he obviously felt ill-equipped to do that; what Aemon the Dragonknight was up to; why did the Dance of the Dragons happen; why did Aegon the Conqueror need a kingsguard when he had dragons; what motivated young knights in Westeros to join the KG; and a lot of other fascinating topics besides.

You have to remember that KG are human too. They fail, and they make mistakes. They may ignore parts of their oaths they consider unimportant (like Lewyn Martell and his paramour maybe) if it suits them (failure, of a sort), or put other loyalties above their oath (a major failure that, but what Margaery is counting on, for example).

It seems to me that you are trying to reconcile all the above actions with their Oaths, and that seems to me to be a fundamentally flawed objective. Not that it isn't worth trying, just that it assumes as basis the almost impossible premise that all KG always obeyed all their oaths perfectly.

But its unlikely that they fail their oaths while proudly proclaiming that they are KG and "swore an oath". Especially not ones held up as shining examples.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Well, the books don't really outline how valid the KG vows are when your king is dead, so I don't really see this thread as a critcism of R+L=J. If anything, Jaime continued to be a KG of the next king after Aerys' death. That seems to suggest that the KG vows transfer to the next king (Jaime didn't re-enlist did he?). So when the Big 3 stand their ground upon hearing of Aerys' and Rhaegar's deaths, their vows presumably transferred to Jon.

That's my interpretation, too. It is not, however, Twinslayer's.

[mindchap]

That's easily the worst part of the vow. I'm still surprised Jaime stood by and allowed that, and even more surprised he stood by while Aerys was cooking Rickard and killing Brandon. He finally broke his vow, but man how is the KG a position of honour when you essentially have to condone such despicable acts?

Yeah Selmy has some serious regrets in DwD when he's thinking back, like maybe he should have left Aerys to the Darklyns and let Rhaegar take the throne and heal the kingdom.

[Twinslayer]

They are also not allowed to protect anyone from the king.

Yes, that is a very good one. I think it shows the following:

-- KG protection was extended to Rhaella. Was that done by Aerys (because she was his wife), Aegon V (because she was his grand-daughter) or Jahaerys (because she was his daughter)?

-- Aerys put his KG on the horns of a dilemma, where they had to choose between conflicting imperatives.

-- Jaime wanted to intervene but he didn't because Jon Darry told him not to. So when Aerys put his KG to the test, there was uncertainty, but the junior person deferred to the senior person.

-- These guys took their oaths (whatever they were) far too seriously because they did not stop THAT.

-- The answer is not always obvious, even when it should be.

Interested in what conclusions you draw from this?

[Twinslayer]

You have to remember that KG are human too. They fail, and they make mistakes. They may ignore parts of their oaths they consider unimportant (like Lewyn Martell and his paramour maybe) if it suits them (failure, of a sort), or put other loyalties above their oath (a major failure that, but what Margaery is counting on, for example).

It seems to me that you are trying to reconcile all the above actions with their Oaths, and that seems to me to be a fundamentally flawed objective. Not that it isn't worth trying, just that it assumes as basis the almost impossible premise that all KG always obeyed all their oaths perfectly.

But its unlikely that they fail their oaths while proudly proclaiming that they are KG and "swore an oath". Especially not ones held up as shining examples.

That is a very good observation. Maybe we can't always reconcile their actions with their oaths, What is interesting to me is that there are some good KG trying to follow their oaths to the letter and there are some KG who do what they want and then try to justify it. And there are some, like Jaime, who are a little of both.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

That's easily the worst part of the vow. I'm still surprised Jaime stood by and allowed that, and even more surprised he stood by while Aerys was cooking Rickard and killing Brandon. He finally broke his vow, but man how is the KG a position of honour when you essentially have to condone such despicable acts?

It's not, and therein lies its tragedy. Think about it. Knights are ideally supposed to uphold justice, protect the weak and give aid and comfort to the powerless. And yet the best knights in the country are plucked to become the bodyguards for the wealthiest, most powerful, egotistical family in the country. The entire existence of the Kingsguard as an institution is more or less a blaspheming of the ideals that knights are supposed to strive for. Thank the stupid Targs for creating it.

[nirolo]

He's trying to come up with an argument as to why the Kingsguard were at the Tower of Joy instead of with Viserys, if anyone's curious. He's already come to his conclusion and is looking for validation to back it up, instead of the other way around.

... in case anyone was wondering was the motive in all of this was.

Apple Martini, you should welcome Twinslayer's service.

The best way to measure the success of a theory is to see how well it withstands objections from the other side.

I'm sure when all else fails, you will stand guard and strike down each and every objection swiftly and forcefully.