Why didn't Martin just let the peace with the slavers stand?

[total1402]

A part of me when I was reading did think, well, at least now she can leave and learn from this. With Hidzhar as King and the slaver armies gone from Mereen she could have finally left for Westeros. But then, Drogon flies in and suddenly the fights back on.

if the point, as many people have told me, is that Dany learns to rule in Mereen and embraces a more destructive aspect of herself after failure. Well, why not just have her move on after shes been humiliated into marrying this foreigner and letting those slavers walk over her. A bit like how at the end of Clash she failed to get support on Qarth and decides to be proactive rather than expecting aid to come to her.

Plus, if the point of Dany in Mereen is that the character fails and learns from it. Well, she has to actually fail. If she just comes back and kills all the slavers solving the problem entirely then thats not really a failure. Especially since the solution is both simple (use violence) and she has been provided possibly several free armies to achieve this. Ironborn, Tyrions mercs and possibly the Dothraki and Volts as well.

I'd rather have plot movement and a line written under Mereen than an irrelevant battle in six years time. It also makes Dany getting to Westeros a lot more complicated since he will have to explain how Dany gets past all the free cities who are at war with her. Especially since he is so sure he can finish the series in two books. Having half the continent at war with Daenerys isn't a trivial matter that can be ignored at a later date.

ps. I would also add that it is far too predictable that Dany is going to fail to make peace with the slavers. We know Vic and Tyrion are en route for a final showdown for the whole book. There was almost never a point where I believed it wasn't going to come down to a big battle at Mereen. It would have actually been surprising if it had.

[Light a wight tonight]

I can't say what's in Martin's mind, but the peace with the savers was doomed. Drogon's return just provided an excuse to resume hostilities. At least she got out of town, away from the conflict. I think GRRM got himself into a bind with the whole Meereen/Slavers' Bay arc and is having a hard time extricating himself.

BTW, which foreigner did Dany marry? Hizdahr is a local; Dany's the foreigner.

[total1402]

I can't say what's in Martin's mind, but the peace with the savers was doomed. Drogon's return just provided an excuse to resume hostilities. At least she got out of town, away from the conflict. I think GRRM got himself into a bind with the whole Meereen/Slavers' Bay arc and is having a hard time extricating himself.

Actually moving Dany away complicates the plot as it seperates her further from Tyrion and Vic and her armies. I hope he has them reconnect quickly and doesn't prolong that. It would be much simpler if she was still in Mereen so we can have the battle and move on without a bunch of Dothraki chapters to remind us who Khal Jhaoqo and Khal whatshisface is and what the Crones of Doshee silly Khalleen are.

Hes a foriegner to Dany.

But if he let the peace stand then she could finally leave since the threat to Mereen has gone. Better to end it than drag it out looking for a graceful way to cut it or trying to bring so many convoluted arcs to one climactic event.

[Rheagar Prime]

cause that would be boring

[FattyPeon]

Because her leaving Slaver's Bay in essentially the state she found it in would be ridiculous story telling.

Because the fighting pit scene with Drogon is part of the narrative, like everything else thats happened so far.

And because the main purpose of reading is not necessarily to be surprised at every turn. Batman beats the Joker, Dany fails to make peace with Slavers.

[l3ol3o]

I don't think Dany will ever get peace with the slavers. She has wrecked two of their cities and now occupies a third. She also seeks to completely upset their entire culture and traditions. Not to mention she really doesn't give a shit about them and she will abandon them at some point. On top of that she is a hypocrite and basically a slaver herself. Her conversation with Xaro is evidence of this. So Dany hasn't done anything to deserve peace. Why give her peace when she is going to leave soon and they can just retake the city then?

Also I don't believe she will make peace before she leaves. She will either install a puppet government that will likely fall the minute she leaves or she will "wake the dragon" and kill pretty much everyone. There is no way she can keep control of Mereen if she leaves.

Oh and if Dany does return to Mereen and kill everyone then I wouldn't consider that a success. She is trying to be a successful ruler. Killing everyone and then leaving only proves that she can't rule the city.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Also I don't believe she will make peace before she leaves. She will either install a puppet government that will likely fall the minute she leaves or she will "wake the dragon" and kill pretty much everyone. There is no way she can keep control of Mereen if she leaves.

This is pretty much what I expect to happen. She's either going to obliviously install a puppet/enemy government (maybe even led by the Green Grace), or she's going to burn the city and everyone in it to the ground. I don't see an option C (namely, she leaves and it stays stable) that wouldn't feel like an ass-pull.

As for "peace" with the slavers, it's not an option and never has been. Either they'll drive her out or she'll destroy them all.

[Éadaoin]

the reason the peace could not last is because the slavers simply cannot accept dany having a free state so close by to them and after she wrecked those cities, it would make them look weak imo. And they are not men who would take that sort of thing well.

[mindchap]

Because having Dany okay with slavers would tick off just as many fans as fighting them did. It's a lose, lose situation.

[Jon of Elsewhere]

I could possibly see it. After breaking the slavers backs in the coming battle she leaves her loyal slaves backed by unsullied in Essos to enforce rule over the slavers, and leads her newly won Khalissar and the rest of her peoples over the Narrow sea instead. It would be a nice end of the slavers bay arc (Slave unsullied with the power to truely change Slavers Bay) and it would also address the problem of having Dany land with a ridiculously huge army against Westerosi armies bled completely white.

[Jon of Elsewhere]

don't hurt me

[IRON BANK]

The mereneese knot: 1st problem Dragons have to grow, and be trained. 2nd problem Dany rides with the khalassar in a different direction. 3rd problem Pov's need time to travel to meet up with Dany. I know it seems like it took a long time. But when you think about it how many books have all of us read where things that should take a long time are never properly explained. And quests just take place w/ out explanation. It makes for poor reading. As Martin takes his time and introduces you to a whole fantasy world.

[Nictarion]

I don't think Dany will ever get peace with the slavers. She has wrecked two of their cities and now occupies a third. She also seeks to completely upset their entire culture and traditions. Not to mention she really doesn't give a shit about them and she will abandon them at some point. On top of that she is a hypocrite and basically a slaver herself. Her conversation with Xaro is evidence of this. So Dany hasn't done anything to deserve peace. Why give her peace when she is going to leave soon and they can just retake the city then?

Also I don't believe she will make peace before she leaves. She will either install a puppet government that will likely fall the minute she leaves or she will "wake the dragon" and kill pretty much everyone. There is no way she can keep control of Mereen if she leaves.

Oh and if Dany does return to Mereen and kill everyone then I wouldn't consider that a success. She is trying to be a successful ruler. Killing everyone and then leaving only proves that she can't rule the city.

If the part in bold was true, she would have taken Quentyn's offer and left right then and there.

[Light a wight tonight]

Actually moving Dany away complicates the plot as it seperates her further from Tyrion and Vic and her armies. I hope he has them reconnect quickly and doesn't prolong that. It would be much simpler if she was still in Mereen so we can have the battle and move on without a bunch of Dothraki chapters to remind us who Khal Jhaoqo and Khal whatshisface is and what the Crones of Doshee silly Khalleen are.

Hes a foriegner to Dany.

But if he let the peace stand then she could finally leave since the threat to Mereen has gone. Better to end it than drag it out looking for a graceful way to cut it or trying to bring so many convoluted arcs to one climactic event.

Getting out of Meereen means that she no longer has her hands effectively tied by the Harpy, Hizdahr, whoever. She'd been losing ground to the Establishment almost as soon as the shock of the takeover wore off. And the (former) slaveowners were colluding with the Yunkaii and Astapori during the siege. Basically she could have kept the status quo and gotten ground to pieces slowly, gone the Shavepate route and started taking retribution on the slaver families, or cut her losses and left.

As to a peace, the other cities had no intention of honoring one. Setting up a slave market in sight of Meereen was one provocation, killing envoys was another. Volantis had a fleet on the way to take part in sacking Meereen. The only lasting peace would have been based on the slaver armies being defeated, which might have happened since they were so weakened by the Pale Mare.

Hizdahr was a foreigner to Dany? Good 'un.

[Master Forel's Fro]

i dont see why taking into account that slaves run every aspect of the slavers lives, from bedmates to army they can rule themselves. they have all the tools and knowledge but not how to apply it, i think with a powerfull ally say a westerosi queen with dragons and given time might be decades or centuries but it could happen, by first inter-marrying the slavers to the newly appointed members of the slaver cities, mix the bloods and every noble can claim to have half slave blood in the veins. :)

[SeanF]

This is pretty much what I expect to happen. She's either going to obliviously install a puppet/enemy government (maybe even led by the Green Grace), or she's going to burn the city and everyone in it to the ground. I don't see an option C (namely, she leaves and it stays stable) that wouldn't feel like an ass-pull.

As for "peace" with the slavers, it's not an option and never has been. Either they'll drive her out or she'll destroy them all.

Wiping out the Great Masters, and their families and supporters, and leaving someone like the Shavepate in charge, seems the likeliest outcome to me.

[total1402]

The mereneese knot: 1st problem Dragons have to grow, and be trained. 2nd problem Dany rides with the khalassar in a different direction. 3rd problem Pov's need time to travel to meet up with Dany. I know it seems like it took a long time. But when you think about it how many books have all of us read where things that should take a long time are never properly explained. And quests just take place w/ out explanation. It makes for poor reading. As Martin takes his time and introduces you to a whole fantasy world.

1-Its fantasy, the dragons can grow as much or as little as needed. Besides,if she left at the end of ADWD it still would have left a fair amount of time for the dragons to grow. She would still need to reach the coast of the Narrow Sea.

2-Why do we need the Dothraki? It is Winter in Westeros. Winter. A big army is useless now because there is no way of feeding it. Martin would be entering the realms of stupid if he had any army bigger than a few hundred people marching in Winter. So she does not need any more soldiers because she physically cannot use them at this point.

3-Long time? Dude, nobody met with Daenerys during ADWD. It is a 1200 page book and it will likely be another big chunk of the Winds of Winter before these characters finally meet eachother. What possible benefit is there to dwelling on how Tyrion Vic and Quentyn get to Mereen and spending hundreds of pages on that? Nothing of relevance happened on their journeys aside from a deliberately brief, obtuse and un-insightful introduction to Aegon.

4-He has said quite specifically that places outside Westeros are only important in how they reflect on Westerosi characters. Essos does not matter. Therefore world exploration in Essos is the most pointless exercise imaginable. These places are of peripheral importance to the plot and will be forgotten about as soon as Dany reachs Westeros in the final book.

Something somebody said earlier. I thought the books were meant to be known for surprises? Having something which you can easily predict from ASOS and spending a thousand pages leaving a quivering question mark over a possible question mark is just time wasting. Everybody knows she is going to crack and kill the slavers with fire n blood. Its just that martin thought spending a thousand pages on this was a good idea no matter how predictable it was.

[Lion of Judah]

Wiping out the Great Masters, and their families and supporters, and leaving someone like the Shavepate in charge, seems the likeliest outcome to me.

I like this idea, but the Shavepate is an exceptionally cruel man in his own right.

[total1402]

cause that would be boring

And ADWD wasn't boring? I would rather have had plot movement and a line written under Mereen with Dany leaving than six Barri, Vic n Tyrion chapters building up to a battle thats not going to happen until another book is released. Which is fucking stupid. I don't care about the introduction to Winds of Winter. It serves no purpose putting it there except to waste time

[PrimeRhaegar]

And ADWD wasn't boring? I would rather have had plot movement and a line written under Mereen with Dany leaving than six Barri, Vic n Tyrion chapters building up to a battle thats not going to happen until another book is released. Which is fucking stupid. I don't care about the introduction to Winds of Winter. It serves no purpose putting it there except to waste time

it was more exciting than AFFC