Foreshadowing of Daenerys at the Wall (A DWD SPOILERS)

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Was doing a re-read of a DwD and I saw an interesting excerpt in Dany's last chapter that points to her playing a key role in deafeating the others at the wall.

"Evening took her almost unawares. As the sun was gilding the distant spires of Dragonstone,

Dany stumbled onto a low stone wall, overgrown and broken. Perhaps it had been part of a temple, or

the hall of the village lord. More ruins lay beyond it—an old well, and some circles in the grass that

marked the sites where hovels had once stood. They had been built of mud and straw, she judged, but

long years of wind and rain had worn them away to nothing. Dany found eight before the sun went

down, but there might have been more farther out, hidden in the grass.

The stone wall had endured better than the rest. Though it was nowhere more than three feet

high, the angle where it met another, lower wall still offered some shelter from the elements, and night

was coming on fast. Dany wedged herself into that corner, making a nest of sorts by tearing up handfuls

of the grass that grew around the ruins." The next part I'll skip it Dany just remembers about Mereen and has a dream of Quaithe.

"The next morning she woke stiff and sore and aching, with ants crawling on her arms and legs

and face. When she realized what they were, she kicked aside the stalks of dry brown grass that had

served as her bed and blanket and struggled to her feet. She had bites all over her, little red bumps,

itchy and inflamed. Where did all the ants come from? Dany brushed them from her arms and legs and

belly. She ran a hand across her stubbly scalp where her hair had burned away, and felt more ants on

her head, and one crawling down the back of her neck. She knocked them off and crushed them under

her bare feet. There were so many …It turned out that their anthill was on the other side of her wall. She wondered how the ants had

managed to climb over it and find her. To them these tumbledown stones must loom as huge as the

Wall of Westeros. The biggest wall in all the world, her brother Viserys used to say, as proud as if he’d

built it himself."

So basically in a nutshell, Dany is looking for somewhere for the night to sleep and she goes to some ruins and a stone wall, which I interpret as the wall in the North.

"Distant spires of Dragonstone" is very interesting, this is not the real dragonstone, it is drogon's cave Dany names dragonstone but however it is symbolic to the real Dragonstone, since it has spires and we know dragonstones' forts are the most oddly shaped in westoros so I am assuming spires can play outs something foreign in the dothraki sea where Dany is. Also Dragonstone is distant from the wall hence "distant spires"

"The stone wall had endured better than the rest. Though it was nowhere more than three feet

high, the angle where it met another, lower wall still offered some shelter from the elements, and night

was coming on fast." I believe the interpretation to this is that wall in the north protecting westoros from wights, night coming fast could be interprated as winter coming fast.

Now this is the interesting part, when Dany woke she saw ants crawling all over her. My interpretation of the ants are the whitewalkers, they bit Dany and gave her bumbs and she wonders 'Where did they come from?' just as the whole of westoros will wonder where did the others come from?

She then knocked them off her body and crushed them with her bare feet, which could mean Dany/ her dragons play a role in defeating the others.

"It turned out that their anthill was on the other side of her wall. She wondered how the ants had

managed to climb over it and find her. To them these tumbledown stones must loom as huge as the

Wall of Westeros."This is the most important part because, Dany again wonders how the ants got to the other side and connects the stone wall and ruins she was sleeping at with the wall of westeros.

So ants=others in this foreshadowing.

Also another excerpt I found interesting when she reached the stone ruins was this: "Off in the distance, a wolf howled. The sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry."

The only wolf around the wall is Jon Snow but I'm not quite sure what this would mean, all I know is it shows there will be a meeting of Dany and Jon Snow.

This isn't related to the thread but it was later in the chapter in the Dothraki sea:

"From the corner of her eye Dany saw the grass move again, off

to her right. The grass swayed and bowed low, as if before a king, but no king appeared to her. The

world was green and empty. The world was green and silent. The world was yellow, dying. I should get

up, she told herself. I have to walk. I have to follow the stream."

The fact that GRRM used king I think it is related to Jon Snow but not quite sure what it means.

Anyways sorry for the long post, I might be doing one on a Jon chapter I saw that was interesting.

[Queen Elsa]

If the Wall not going to fall, the Others might climb over it (just like the ants did).

This isn't related to the thread but it was later in the chapter in the Dothraki sea:

"From the corner of her eye Dany saw the grass move again, off

to her right. The grass swayed and bowed low, as if before a king, but no king appeared to her.

There was no king but a queen. Also in the HotU there's this vision: "Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed." Some say it was Drogon they're bowing to, also - the Stalliion Dragon that mounts the world.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

If the Wall not going to fall, the Others might climb over it (just like the ants did).

There was no king but a queen. Also in the HotU there's this vision: "Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed." Some say it was Drogon they're bowing to, also - the Stalliion Dragon that mounts the world.

Nice catch on the HotU prophecy I completely forgot about that

[King Tam Stark]

the wall has magic that doesn't allow the others to cross? maybe the ants are the wildings who jon snow let through....its interesting that she brushed them from her arms, legs and belly, this is around the time she bleeds her moonblood and grrm is talking about a bump on her belly, going along with your theory (and all the other dany+jon theories) jon snow is going to get her pregnant

[Queen Elsa]

the wall has magic that doesn't allow the others to cross?

Yeah the Wall has magic repellent for the Others but the Others have magic too (I guess). Maybe they discovered something during the past 8000 years how to counteract the Wall's magic or they're breeding ice spiders (who the heck knows).

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Yeah the Wall has magic repellent for the Others but the Others have magic too (I guess). Maybe they discovered something during the past 8000 years how to counteract the Wall's magic or they're breeding ice spiders (who the heck knows).

Yea they must of been preparing for along time or maybe because winter is coming.

[King Tam Stark]

Yeah the Wall has magic repellent for the Others but the Others have magic too (I guess). Maybe they discovered something during the past 8000 years how to counteract the Wall's magic or they're breeding ice spiders (who the heck knows).

you where supposed to say but the walls coming down lol, at least there has been some evidence/hints of that I can't remember ever hearing anything about the others having magic that counteracts the walls magic

[Lala]

Interesting analysis! I'm still mulling over it, which is why I've been sitting on this topic not responding for so long :leaving:

I do think that Dany and the Others will come into conflict at one point in time, but the nature of that conflict (for me) depends a lot on how Dany's character arc moves forward. This is veering into wild theorization and extrapolation, but if Dany embraces the dragon - fire & blood - then I think the clash will be between two apocalyptic forces (Dany most likely backed by the Rh'llor worshippers as AA reborn), bringing to mind Robert Frost's poem about how some say the world will end in ice, others in fire. If, on the other hand, Dany is able to tame her dragon with her mother persona, then perhaps she will serve as a semi-neutral external force between the struggle between ice and fire.

To wander off on the Ice and Fire tangent - in his poem, Frost compares an apocalyptic fire event to the world ending through "desire" which is an interesting representation of Dany's journey and character arc in general - in many ways, I think Dany is very much a character of "desire" - her desire for home, her desire for love, her desire for vengeance, justice, Daario. By contrast, the Others can be taken to represent "hate" - in the actual poem, Frost interestingly enough says "I think that for destruction ice ..." specifically noting that the world ending in ice would be "destructive" as opposed to the world ending in fire, to which he makes no such reference. So the contrast of ice and fire can also be seen as a clash between two opposite but equally dangerous motivations to the human mind: "desire" and "hate"

If the Wall not going to fall, the Others might climb over it (just like the ants did).

There was no king but a queen. Also in the HotU there's this vision: "Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed." Some say it was Drogon they're bowing to, also - the Stalliion Dragon that mounts the world.

Nice catch! At one point I really want to sit down and do a comprehensive analysis of the HoU prophecies - not as prophetic visions, but as representations of Dany's own subconscious - what she flees from and what she runs towards.

the wall has magic that doesn't allow the others to cross? maybe the ants are the wildings who jon snow let through....its interesting that she brushed them from her arms, legs and belly, this is around the time she bleeds her moonblood and grrm is talking about a bump on her belly, going along with your theory (and all the other dany+jon theories) jon snow is going to get her pregnant

Actually, if you read that passage more closely, it isn't Dany's menstrual cycle, but a miscarriage. When it happens, she notes that the moon is not in the right phase and that the blood came "early"

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Interesting analysis! I'm still mulling over it, which is why I've been sitting on this topic not responding for so long :leaving:

I do think that Dany and the Others will come into conflict at one point in time, but the nature of that conflict (for me) depends a lot on how Dany's character arc moves forward. This is veering into wild theorization and extrapolation, but if Dany embraces the dragon - fire & blood - then I think the clash will be between two apocalyptic forces (Dany most likely backed by the Rh'llor worshippers as AA reborn), bringing to mind Robert Frost's poem about how some say the world will end in ice, others in fire. If, on the other hand, Dany is able to tame her dragon with her mother persona, then perhaps she will serve as a semi-neutral external force between the struggle between ice and fire.

To wander off on the Ice and Fire tangent - in his poem, Frost compares an apocalyptic fire event to the world ending through "desire" which is an interesting representation of Dany's journey and character arc in general - in many ways, I think Dany is very much a character of "desire" - her desire for home, her desire for love, her desire for vengeance, justice, Daario. By contrast, the Others can be taken to represent "hate" - in the actual poem, Frost interestingly enough says "I think that for destruction ice ..." specifically noting that the world ending in ice would be "destructive" as opposed to the world ending in fire, to which he makes no such reference. So the contrast of ice and fire can also be seen as a clash between two opposite but equally dangerous motivations to the human mind: "desire" and "hate"

Nice catch! At one point I really want to sit down and do a comprehensive analysis of the HoU prophecies - not as prophetic visions, but as representations of Dany's own subconscious - what she flees from and what she runs towards.

Actually, if you read that passage more closely, it isn't Dany's menstrual cycle, but a miscarriage. When it happens, she notes that the moon is not in the right phase and that the blood came "early"

I agree Dany and the others will be an Armageddon kinda fight, but I have a feeling some of the characters will be on the side of Ice, with the others, It's also interesting in regard to the fire and ice oppositon, that there is a land of always winter in the north and a land of long summers in valyria

[Pero the first of His name]

For a long time my opinion is that the TV show version of HotU is a stupid spoiler of Dany fighting and dying at the Wall.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

For a long time my opinion is that the TV show version of HotU is a stupid spoiler of Dany fighting and dying at the Wall.

Thats what I thought too

[Queen Elsa]

I agree Dany and the others will be an Armageddon kinda fight, but I have a feeling some of the characters will be on the side of Ice, with the others, It's also interesting in regard to the fire and ice oppositon, that there is a land of always winter in the north and a land of long summers in valyria

Interesting..

For a long time my opinion is that the TV show version of HotU is a stupid spoiler of Dany fighting and dying at the Wall.

I think it was a lame version of the HotU. They don't wan't to use new props so they used what they already have.

[C0bR]

The ratio of 3 feet tall wall to an average height of an average ant is nearly a double of ratio of 700 feet tall Wall to an average Other/wight. Therefore this does not suit.

Additionaly there are no corners at the Wall in which Dany could hide in.

It simply does not fit.

/tinfoil theory rejection

It actually fits pretty nicely and the foreshadowing is quite literal. The scene with the ants is pretty random to not hold some kind of foreshadowing.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

The ratio of 3 feet tall wall to an average height of an average ant is nearly a double of ratio of 700 feet tall Wall to an average Other/wight. Therefore this does not suit.

Additionaly there are no corners at the Wall in which Dany could hide in.

It simply does not fit.

/tinfoil theory rejection

It actually fits pretty nicely and the foreshadowing is quite literal. The scene with the ants is pretty random to not hold some kind of foreshadowing.

The ratio of the wall doesn't have to be the same its just "foreshadowing" not real events

[Groat]

This has been discussed as an example to Others forshadowing before and is a really cool scene to analyze. Another great one is her dream at one point, where she is Rhaegar battling on the trident, except all the enemies are armored in ice.

Yeah the Wall has magic repellent for the Others but the Others have magic too (I guess). Maybe they discovered something during the past 8000 years how to counteract the Wall's magic or they're breeding ice spiders (who the heck knows).

Well, if Old Nan can be believed, so long as the men of the Nights Watch remain true, the Others cannot pass the wall. Personally, I love the theory that, for what ever reason, when Marsh and company attempted to assassinate Jon, this was the final straw, so to speak, that meant the men of the Nights Watch were no longer true, and the fact that Jon could not feel the forth blade, only cold, means the Other attack actually started at the end of DWD,

[Fire Eater]

Ser Jorah told her of the tree it [peach] had been plucked from, in a garden near the western wall.

The wall in the West that comes to mind is the Wall, and with peaches being somewhat used as a symbol of death, this could foreshadow Dany dying at the Wall.

The gaunt outlines of huge catapults and monstrous wooden cranes stood sentry up there, like the skeletons of giant birds

He might as well wish for another thousand men, and maybe a dragon or three.

Dany and her dragons will come to the Wall.

[Ser Pigeon Pie]

Well, if Old Nan can be believed, so long as the men of the Nights Watch remain true, the Others cannot pass the wall. Personally, I love the theory that, for what ever reason, when Marsh and company attempted to assassinate Jon, this was the final straw, so to speak, that meant the men of the Nights Watch were no longer true, and the fact that Jon could not feel the forth blade, only cold, means the Other attack actually started at the end off DWD,

I totally agree with you! One of the key recurring themes in aSoIaF seems to be oath-keeping, or rather oath-breaking. Whatever happens with Jon Snow (personally I think he'll live, we've invested too much time to leave it off there), the actions of the NW has messed with a solemn oath dating back hundreds of years. And as we've seen with the story of the rat cook, the Old Gods aren't so forgiving with oath breakers! I wouldn't be surprised if we see the magic holding the Others off begin to fade away thus bringing about tWoW. So I believe it was a very important foreshadowing of events to come!

Plus, with HoD prophecy, didn't dany see a "blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice"? There's definitely hints at the Wall playing a big part in Dany's future.

[King Tam Stark]

Actually, if you read that passage more closely, it isn't Dany's menstrual cycle, but a miscarriage. When it happens, she notes that the moon is not in the right phase and that the blood came "early"

Ignore my ignorance of the female body I knew she was bleeding because she is supposed to have miscarried and just worded it wrong

[King Tam Stark]

This has been discussed as an example to Others forshadowing before and is a really cool scene to analyze. Another great one is her dream at one point, where she is Rhaegar battling on the trident, except all the enemies are armored in ice.

Well, if Old Nan can be believed, so long as the men of the Nights Watch remain true, the Others cannot pass the wall. Personally, I love the theory that, for what ever reason, when Marsh and company attempted to assassinate Jon, this was the final straw, so to speak, that meant the men of the Nights Watch were no longer true, and the fact that Jon could not feel the forth blade, only cold, means the Other attack actually started at the end of DWD,

mind blown first time ive read that interpretation. Why do the assassins say "for the watch" while carrying out the attack?

[BearandMaidenFair]

Also, the eight hovels she counts could allude to her gaining power over 8 of the 9 regions in Westeros, with the 9th being the North/the Wall. It's pure conjecture, but it kinda fits.