Was Cat the first Southron to marry into the Starks?

[mindchap]

Or at least the first follower of the Seven to marry in? I keep wondering why it's pointed out so often in GoT that the Sept in Winterfell was built specifically for Cat. And the only thing I can come up with is that either she was the first worshiper of the Seven to marry in or maybe she was just the first one with a husband who cared enough about her religious beliefs to build her one.

edt: First to marry into the Ruling Stark line.

[Fire Eater]

I think Catelyn was. The Starks, like other lord paramounts, tended to marry from amongst their bannermen.

[Colonel Green]

In the whole history of the Seven Kingdoms, with marital alliances as big as they are, you would think probably not, even if marrying within one's own bannermen was the norm.

We know that one of Rickard Stark's aunts married into the junior branch of House Royce, so clearly there were some alliances made with other kingdoms (I'd love to hear the story behind that one, because that seems a pretty meager match; I'm not even clear what lands the now-Gates of the Moon Royces are supposed to have had then).

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

We know that one of Rickard Stark's aunts married into the junior branch of House Royce, so clearly there were some alliances made with other kingdoms (I'd love to hear the story behind that one, because that seems a pretty meager match; I'm not even clear what lands the now-Gates of the Moon Royces are supposed to have had then).

Not to get off-topic, but I know there's at least one theory that the Stark girl who married the junior-branch Royce was knocked up when she did it. The wedding was a, er, fire sale, so to speak. Whether that's true or what implications it might have, who knows. But it does explain why the daughter of a paramount lord would marry a junior-branch nobody in a completely different region.

[mindchap]

In the whole history of the Seven Kingdoms, with marital alliances as big as they are, you would think probably not, even if marrying within one's own bannermen was the norm.

We know that one of Rickard Stark's aunts married into the junior branch of House Royce, so clearly there were some alliances made with other kingdoms (I'd love to hear the story behind that one, because that seems a pretty meager match; I'm not even clear what lands the now-Gates of the Moon Royces are supposed to have had then).

But that would not have been the ruling Stark, guess I should have specified.

[Colonel Green]

But that would not have been the ruling Stark, guess I should have specified.

Yeah, I understood that. I do find the idea of Catelyn being literally the first Southron wife rather implausible. We know that one of the previous Kings of the Winter married the daughter of the defeated Marsh King (House Reed), so clearly marital politics still existed back then. The North warred with the Arryns and the Hoares, and you would expect with whomever was ruling the Riverlands at a given time; that no marital alliances or peace treaties were ever part of those dealings stretches credibility.

[Mr Hodor]

over the centuries many may have married the stark of winterfell. Small septs may have been built and neglected till they were ruined.

[mindchap]

Not to get off-topic, but I know there's at least one theory that the Stark girl who married the junior-branch Royce was knocked up when she did it. The wedding was a, er, fire sale, so to speak. Whether that's true or what implications it might have, who knows. But it does explain why the daughter of a paramount lord would marry a junior-branch nobody in a completely different region.

Another drop of Egg IV perhaps? :)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Another drop of Egg IV perhaps? :)

I hope not. Although the idea of a bunch of Aegon IV's bastard, unwashed peasant descendants being plausible dragonriders makes me laugh for some reason.

[mindchap]

Yeah, I understood that. I do find the idea of Catelyn being literally the first Southron wife rather implausible. We know that one of the previous Kings of the Winter married the daughter of the defeated Marsh King (House Reed), so clearly marital politics still existed back then. The North warred with the Arryns and the Hoares, and you would expect with whomever was ruling the Riverlands at a given time; that no marital alliances or peace treaties were ever part of those dealings stretches credibility.

House Reed seems to follow the Old Gods(at least judging from Meera and Jojen) and the Hoares were Ironborn.

[Colonel Green]

Another drop of Egg IV perhaps? :)

Several decades too late for that.

[mindchap]

I hope not. Although the idea of a bunch of Aegon IV's bastard, unwashed peasant descendants being plausible dragonriders makes me laugh for some reason.

Sometimes I think George threw him in just to wreck the secret Targ curve.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I heard a theory that Tully bloood helped ignite the warg powers in the stark children, is there any truth in this?

[mindchap]

Several decades too late for that.

But if there were anyone, and I do mean anyone, who could find a way to knock someone up 30 years later it would be Aegon IV. :)

[mindchap]

I heard a theory that Tully bloood helped ignite the warg powers in the stark children, is there any truth in this?

I'm not sure, I've never heard that.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I heard a theory that Tully bloood helped ignite the warg powers in the stark children, is there any truth in this?

I can't think of why that would be true, given that the warging powers seem to be related to strong First Men heritage and/or old god worship, neither of which fits the Tullys. It also doesn't explain why the most definitely not-Tully Jon is also a warg.

[A Man Has Said]

Yeah, I understood that. I do find the idea of Catelyn being literally the first Southron wife rather implausible. We know that one of the previous Kings of the Winter married the daughter of the defeated Marsh King (House Reed), so clearly marital politics still existed back then. The North warred with the Arryns and the Hoares, and you would expect with whomever was ruling the Riverlands at a given time; that no marital alliances or peace treaties were ever part of those dealings stretches credibility.

Weren't the Arryns particularly proud of being Andals (and therefore of the Seven?) The first Andal invasion was into the Vale, IIRC.

There was a godswood at Riverrun, but it's described in the opening chapters of AGoT as being more park-like, and Catelyn was intimidated by the dark old-growth forest in Winterfell's godswood. And there are godswoods at lots of places in the south that we know of; Raventree, Kings Landing, and so on. The Citadel has (I believe) the only godswood south of the neck with a living Weirwood heart tree.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Ahh yes Jon too is warg, so that cant make sense.

[Petyr Patter]

The rule of Big Numbers suggests no. There have been hundreds, if not over a thousand,Lord Starks of Winterfell. At some point, one of them by sheer chance would have married a women South of the Neck. The lack of a Sept is not a deal killer, since the expectation might have been for the wife to fully adapt the husband's religion. We also know that several (though definitely a minority) of houses South of the Neck keep the Old Gods, including House Blackwood, and probably many more kept the Old Gods in the past before converting.

Still, there has been no confirmed Lord of Winterfell marrying a Southern Lord's daughter in books.

[The Duke]

Maybe previous Starks were just assholes who didn't care about the seven regardless of what their wife thought.