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What If...... Jon didn't join the Night's Watch?


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34 replies to this topic

#1 Jose Stark

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:12 PM

What would have happened with Jon if he didnt join? Another traveler for King's Landing? Anotthr pair of eyes and ears for Ned ? All those scenes with Arya? Or would he have stayed with Robb and gone to fight with him in the war of the 5 kings? Escape from the RW? Outlaw? Exile in the free cities? Or what about the watch itself without Jon? Would Mance have taken the wall and invaded the north? What about Ygritte? Would he be there to stop Theon? Be lord of winterfell?

Go crazy!!!!!

#2 Dire-Lion

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:19 PM

Due to Catelyn's insistence that he leave Winterfell, he could have gone to stay with one of Ned's bannermen. But I think he would have returned to serve with Robb to get Ned back, and would have died in the RW.

#3 The-Paul-Arron00

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:30 PM

Honestly there were only 2 things that could've happened. 1 he goes with Ned and probably dies. 2 Robb commands Jon to return to winterfell almost immediately and they march together and Jon gets placed in command or 2nd in command to the northern foot that Roose Bolton used to betray the north preventing that. I guess he could've stayed at winterfell too and stopped the iron born and ramsay before they even started

#4 danm_999

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:34 PM

He'd have stayed at Winterfell with Robb and Theon, and gone south with them when Robb called his banners. He'd probably be named Robb's heir once Bran and Rickon were 'killed', and Sansa was married to Tyrion. He'd then probably either die at the Red Wedding.

#5 intheswamp

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:38 PM

I can't see Cat letting him stay at Winterfell. Ned wouldn't take him to King's Landing, where he could be in danger. So, Ned would probably send him to a trustworthy, and likely northern, house: one of his bannermen or a house like House Royce. I could see Ned sending him to Greywater Watch. Howland is possibly the only person besides Ned that knows the truth about Jon's birth and Greywater Watch is as safe a location as you can find.

Jon would definetly join Robb in his march south. If it hadn't been for his vow to the Night's Watch, he would have left. He'd probably be one of Robb's personal guard. I think Jon would have been a good advisor. He's very observant and picks up on the nature of others. He didn't like Theon and I don't think he'd trust Roose (He mentions somewhere that Eddard never trusted Roose.). Jon's flaw in Dance was that he sends all his friends away and takes everything on his own shoulders. Robb's flaw was that he was too trusting of the wrong people. They'd form a nice team. Who knows what would happen to him? Maybe he makes a name for himself in the war or maybe he takes an arrow to the throat while taking a piss.

#6 GallowsKnight

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:41 PM

Due to Catelyn's insistence that he leave Winterfell, he could have gone to stay with one of Ned's bannermen. But I think he would have returned to serve with Robb to get Ned back, and would have died in the RW.

Not necessarily. I'm optimistic to how well his presence could have changed things (considering Robb's campaign couldn't have gone worse). Here's a few things that could have happened:

Jon's presence at the Crag might stopped Robb from sleeping with Jeyne, as he has someone to mourn Rickon and Bran with.

With another young commander with more importantly a f**k off huge direwolf, maybe Jaime would have been killed or captured at the Whispering Woods without all the Karstark casualties.

He could have been put in charge of the Northern foot and not lead them to a massacre at the Green Fork or Duskendale.

He could have identified Arya at Harrenhal.

He could have been sent to negotiate with Renly (and then subsequently Stannis). And made some sort of alliance or returned to convince Robb to take off his crown.

He could have been sent to the Iron Island instead of Theon. Likely ending up in a cell, but at Theon wouldn't take Winterfell and "kill" Bran and Rickon.

He could have been left at Winterfell and not fallen for Theon's ruse at Torrhen's Square.

#7 Morienthar

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:41 PM

He'd be dead,at either one of the battles protecting Robb most probably at the whispering woods.

ETA..
There's a decent chance that Robb wouldn't have married Jeyene if Jon was around to mourn the loss of his brothers with him.

Edited by Morienthar, 24 August 2013 - 10:43 PM.


#8 thecryptile

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:45 PM

Jon would have died, either with Ned in KL or Robb at the Red Wedding- of course he might be dead now.

#9 Minsc

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:46 PM

He could have been sent to negotiate with Renly (and then subsequently Stannis). And made some sort of alliance or returned to convince Robb to take off his crown.

He could have been sent to the Iron Island instead of Theon. Likely ending up in a cell, but at Theon wouldn't take Winterfell and "kill" Bran and Rickon.


Robb might not be the best at politics, but I don't he stupid enough to send his bastard half-brother as his ambassador to the opposing kings, nor do I see how he would have been anymore successful then Catelyn and Theon.

#10 C0bR

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:52 PM

I doubt he would've been given a command of troops. Can you imagine the Greatjon or Rickard Karstark serving under a bastard? He would've most likely stayed with Robb in his guard.

The most important thing he could've possibly done was talking Robb out of sending Theon to Balon.

#11 GallowsKnight

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:58 PM

Robb might not be the best at politics, but I don't he stupid enough to send his bastard half-brother as his ambassador to the opposing kings, nor do I see how he would have been anymore successful then Catelyn and Theon.

I'm talking could of here, not would of or should of. Robb made some poor decisions in his campaign. Sending Jon isn't an impossibility.

There are some advantages to sending Jon. Jon Snow is known to be Ned Stark's son, he's an important Stark family member and at this point obviously close in Robb's counsels. But as a bastard his value as a hostage is little. He's not an heir and has no power. It's a similar advantage to sending his mother.

I don't think he'd necessarily be more successful. However in the case of Balon he'd most certainly be imprisoned immediately. But his presence there means Theon is still with Robb and therefore won't take Winterfell or "kill" Bran and Rickon.

With Renly and Stannis it's simply a timing thing. Jon might not have been present when Renly was killed (being as you properly point out less important than Catelyn) and may have been able to stick around and negiotiate/talk with Stannis. Then be able to return and pass on his messages to Robb. It may not have come to anything but it's better then Catelyn fleeing with Renly's presumed murderer.

I doubt he would've been given a command of troops. Can you imagine the Greatjon or Rickard Karstark serving under a bastard? He would've most likely stayed with Robb in his guard.

The most important thing he could've possibly done was talking Robb out of sending Theon to Balon.

Agreed it's unlikely. But it's not impossible. If Jon is able to develop a similar Young-Wolf reputation as Robb, lords may overlook his bastard status. He looks like Ned Stark and has a massive direwolf.

Also Robb did stupid things. He might be stupid enough to give Jon a command and then lucky enough to have it pay off.

#12 Mother of Jon

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:05 PM

What would have happened with Jon if he didnt join?

He won't get the Caesar treatment that's for sure.

Another traveler for King's Landing? Anotthr pair of eyes and ears for Ned ? All those scenes with Arya?

I don't think Ned would let him come to King's Landing coz there are too many eyes staring, lips talking/whispering, and ears listening and he doesn't want anyone digging on Jon's parentage and be revealed it so soon. Arya will be very happy if Jon comes though.

Or would he have stayed with Robb and gone to fight with him in the war of the 5 kings?

He can and be gone dead with him, too.

Escape from the RW? Outlaw? Exile in the free cities?

If he escaped, there's no other place to go but the Wall and he'll look for Uncle Benjen

Or what about the watch itself without Jon?

Sam dies early. Mormont will be killed by wighted Othor. Since Sam dies, Puddles lives and since Mormont dies early, too, there won't be any ranging beyond the Wall but there won't be lots of dead NW brothers.

Would Mance have taken the wall and invaded the north?

Without Jon spying on them and warning the NW, yeah.

What about Ygritte?

She will never know about the Lord's kiss and Jon will still be a virgin.

Would he be there to stop Theon?

Then Theon won't become Reek.

Be lord of winterfell?

Mayhaps.

#13 bloodsteel bitterraven

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:49 PM

Ned couldn't bring him to KL. It would have been an insult to the King. Sending him to one of his bannermen is the only solution. Howland Reed sounds like a good option since he wouldn't be in danger of having his identity revealed there. He would obviously join Robb in his campaign which would cause some tension with the Blackfish. Jon would agree with Catelyn though on not sending Theon to the Iron Islands which might have bridged the gap between them or even swayed Robb to avoiding one of his greatest mistakes

#14 bloodsteel bitterraven

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:59 PM

Sam dies early. Mormont will be killed by wighted Othor.


I agree that Sam wouldn't have survived the training, but I'm not sure about Mormont and the wight. It was Ghost that found the wights in the first place. Even if they had found them without Ghost, it was Sam's comments on the state of the bodies that made Mormont take them back for Maester Aemon to examine them. If it wasn't for Sm they would have burned them right there.

#15 Inquisitor Glokta

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:02 AM

He would have never met the love of his life, Satin.

#16 Minsc

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:19 AM

Ned couldn't bring him to KL. It would have been an insult to the King.

Not really, that was just Ned being a complainer and attempting to justifying his attempt to shift Jon onto Catelyn as with how Auranne Waters had no real problem in King's Landing.

Jon would agree with Catelyn though on not sending Theon to the Iron Islands which might have bridged the gap between them or even swayed Robb to avoiding one of his greatest mistakes

Why would Jon magically be against sending Theon? It isn't like he understands the Iron Isles and Balon anymore then Robb

#17 bloodsteel bitterraven

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:27 AM

Why would Jon magically be against sending Theon? It isn't like he understands the Iron Isles and Balon anymore then Robb


Jon thought Theon was an ass and didn't trust him one bit. That was one thing him and Catelyn could agree on.

#18 Minsc

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:29 AM

Jon thought Theon was an ass and didn't trust him one bit. That was one thing him and Catelyn could agree on.


The issue wasn't Theon it was Balon who they couldn't trust.

#19 Ser Pigeon Pie

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:43 AM

Or what about the watch itself without Jon?


The NW will probably carry on the same up to aSoS, with a few minor changes such as Sam getting bullied and probably being more of a recluse. The rest will depend on who they elect as the next LC and how he'll deal with everything that follows.

#20 Father of Hosts

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:51 AM

He dies at the RW, protecting Robb I would imagine.