Could a Dothraki army actually conquer Westeros?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I, as a commander, would use heavily armored foot, armed with lances/spears for the charges, in the woods and draw the Dothraki into there. 40.000 riders in a forest area are of less use than nipples on a breastplate... ;)

Especially since they'd be 40,000 infantry after a week even without enemy contact. Wood makes a terrible meal for horses :devil:

[E-Ro]

Especially since they'd be 40,000 infantry after a week even without enemy contact. Wood makes a terrible meal for horses :devil:

Haha, 40k dothraki infantry would be a sight to see. Most likely they would stumble around trying to raze villages for food before the local lords managed to completely wear them out with raids on their foraging parties. That is of course assuming no one leads a large host against them ASAP and crushes them even faster.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Dothraki infantry is just bad... Just look at Ser Jorah. A mediocre Westerosi knight has no problem taking down one of the fiercest Dothraki warriors.

[Chaircat Meow]

It makes me sad, all this glee at showing how much of a joke the Dothraki are, as I genuinely don't think the author ever intended this. Jorah's discussion of he Dothraki, Tyrion's comments to Illyrio, and even Ned's failure to point out westerosi armies could defeat them with ease (he just pointed out they couldn't travel across the sea) all point towards their ridiculousness not being intentional.

[Sansa_Stark]

Dothraki infantry is just bad... Just look at Ser Jorah. A mediocre Westerosi knight has no problem taking down one of the fiercest Dothraki warriors.

Mediocre?

Ser Jorah is like 6'5 and above average seeing as how he is high born and trained for life.

He even beat Jaime Lannister in a tourney.

[Erkan12]

Fighting place is important too, if they are manage to fight in downhill, with their horse it would very dangerous. But if you lure them to uphill, they could be destroyed even on open field.

Mediocre?

Ser Jorah is like 6'5 and above average seeing as how he is high born and trained for life.

He even beat Jaime Lannister in a tourney.

Yes but Qotho is not average fighter either, he was bloodrider, it is kind of kingsguard for Khal.

If you compare them, westeros has many fighter like Jorah but Dothraki bloodriders are few.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

It makes me sad, all this glee at showing how much of a joke the Dothraki are, as I genuinely don't think the author ever intended this. Jorah's discussion of he Dothraki, Tyrion's comments to Illyrio, and even Ned's failure to point out westerosi armies could defeat them with ease (he just pointed out they couldn't travel across the sea) all point towards their ridiculousness not being intentional.

It might not be intentional, but the way they have been shown, it seems highly likely.

What are they to do against full plate armored knights with 8foot lances with their little arakhs? If the Westerosi commanders has at least half a brain, he picks the spot for the battle and wins.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Mediocre?

Ser Jorah is like 6'5 and above average seeing as how he is high born and trained for life.

He even beat Jaime Lannister in a tourney.

Jousting and swordfighting are 2 completely different things, you know? No where in the books is he even considered, to be close to the best swordsmen.

Just think about the Mountain vs 20 Dothraki infantry. It would be a massacre...

[Chaircat Meow]

It might not be intentional, but the way they have been shown, it seems highly likely.

What are they to do against full plate armored knights with 8foot lances with their little arakhs? If the Westerosi commanders has at least half a brain, he picks the spot for the battle and wins.

well the idea was the knights were only a small portion of the army. I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm just saying, if it is intentional, the author's misdirection on this point is very very strange and pointless.

[juanml82]

It might not be intentional, but the way they have been shown, it seems highly likely.

What are they to do against full plate armored knights with 8foot lances with their little arakhs? If the Westerosi commanders has at least half a brain, he picks the spot for the battle and wins.

They don't. They would need to use hit and run tactics using their bows. If they charge at any half decent Westerosi army, they'd get decimated.

[aceluby]

As proven by the Dothraki being curbstomped by 1/10 their number of Unsullied at Quohor?

Westerosi men-at-arms are very well-trained and equipped galaxies above the Dothraki.

Flanking armies on the field is difficult at best. And useless if you lack a hammer to exploit it. The Dothraki have no hammer, they are a rasp at best, grinding away the weak spots: villages and peasants.

I just reread this part and this is a very weak argument. First off, the Dothraki didn't even try to flank the unsullied because of their Khal's ego. Secondly, AFAIK, this wasn't an open field battle. And third, the unsullied are much better fighters than a Westerosi army.

You're also forgetting that the Dothraki don't have infantry, every single one of their fighter's is horsed and has been trained to fight 100% on horseback, including their archers. This allows for completely different tactics than the westerosi are used to, especially in open battle. I agree that if the Westerosi can avoid open battle by fighting in the North, woodlands, Dorne, or get the Dothraki to try and take a castle, the Dothraki don't have a chance, but if the Dothraki can push the ego down a bit, stick to what they are good at, and avoid battles where they cannot win, there is definitely something for Westeros to be worried about, especially with how divided things are.

I just don't think it's as cut and dry as people believe it to be. There are many variables and fighting an army unlike any army ever encountered before is guaranteed to have its challenges.

[Sansa_Stark]

Fighting place is important too, if they are manage to fight in downhill, with their horse it would very dangerous. But if you lure them to uphill, they could be destroyed even on open field.

Yes but Qotho is not average fighter either, he was bloodrider, it is kind of kingsguard for Khal.

If you compare them, westeros has many fighter like Jorah but Dothraki bloodriders are few.

Not really. Jorah is better than most knights.

And from two large hosts we know.

The Lannister/Tyrell alliance during the War of Conquest which had about 55000 men and 5000 knights.

And Rhaegar's 40000, in which less than 1/10th of which were knights.

The amount of knights and good fighters that Westeros has isn't as much as the Dothraki, all of whom should at least be fairly competent to survive on a khalsar.

I agree that a knight is better than a Dothraki warrior, but most Westerosi soldiers aren't so good.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

well the idea was the knights were only a small portion of the army. I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm just saying, if it is intentional, the author's misdirection on this point is very very strange and pointless.

The most comments about the Dothraki prowess in battle, comes from people, who have never actually seen a khalasar. Usually not the kind of people I would take advice from.

The Dothraki fight mostly on flat ground covered with grass. Change this to a slopy forest area and everythings changed.

Now picture a combined Westerosi force of at least 100.000men (probably closer to 150k) with their known and chosen ground. They wouldn't stand a popsicle's chance in hell.

edit:

You all think about a Westerosi army, armed to fight another Westerosi army. If I had command, I would arm as many men as possible with a spear and shield.

If the Dothraki shoot arrows, hide behind the shield. If they charge, put out the spears, hit the horse, horse falls and crushes riders foot, rider dead.

What else could they do?

The Dothraki can not apply any complicated tactics with their given ressources. They have no spears, no siege engines and fight like 99% off horseback. If you minimize their advantage through horses, by choosing good ground to fight, they have nothing.

edit2:

Not really. Jorah is better than most knights.

I would like to see a quote for that... Otherwise it is just your wishful thinking, speaking here.

[Chaircat Meow]

The most comments about the Dothraki prowess in battle, comes from people, who have never actually seen a khalasar. Usually not the kind of people I would take advice from.

No, they don't. They come from people who have.

The Dothraki fight mostly on flat ground covered with grass. Change this to a slopy forest area and everythings changed.

Don't worry about this, the dothraki can stay on the grasslands.

Now picture a combined Westerosi force of at least 100.000men (probably closer to 150k) with their known and chosen ground. They wouldn't stand a popsicle's chance in hell.

Well, you would never muster such a large army, 20-25,000 is usual operational maximum but in some circumstances you can have 35-40,000. Anyway, I don't deny the Dothraki are shit I just think it is likely a screw up on GrrM's part.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

It makes me sad, all this glee at showing how much of a joke the Dothraki are, as I genuinely don't think the author ever intended this. Jorah's discussion of he Dothraki, Tyrion's comments to Illyrio, and even Ned's failure to point out westerosi armies could defeat them with ease (he just pointed out they couldn't travel across the sea) all point towards their ridiculousness not being intentional.

I do think the author intended it. It's just so very, very one-sided that it has to be intentional.

Jorah's discussion has that much of a subtext of "hope, hope, hope, blind hope and getting into Dany's pants", it isn't pretty anymore.

Neither Tyrion nor Ned had any dealings with the Dothraki, not even fourth hand. Or tenth. Furthermore, Tyrion agrees with Illyrio's negative assessment of the Dothraki, he'd just prefer to wipe them out in a short, but expensive campaign instead of bribing them with small quantities for centuries.

And Ned doesn't focus on the Dothraki's weakness since after the first rational argument was ignored by Robert, there was no need for more.

I just reread this part and this is a very weak argument. First off, the Dothraki didn't even try to flank the unsullied because of their Khal's ego. Secondly, AFAIK, this wasn't an open field battle. And third, the unsullied are much better fighters than a Westerosi army.

You're also forgetting that the Dothraki don't have infantry, every single one of their fighter's is horsed and has been trained to fight 100% on horseback, including their archers. This allows for completely different tactics than the westerosi are used to, especially in open battle. I agree that if the Westerosi can avoid open battle by fighting in the North, woodlands, Dorne, or get the Dothraki to try and take a castle, the Dothraki don't have a chance, but if the Dothraki can push the ego down a bit, stick to what they are good at, and avoid battles where they cannot win, there is definitely something for Westeros to be worried about, especially with how divided things are.

I just don't think it's as cut and dry as people believe it to be. There are many variables and fighting an army unlike any army ever encountered before is guaranteed to have its challenges.

The Dothraki didn't flank the Unsullied because of an ego all of them share. It was pretty close to an open field battle, the walls of Quohor were no more advantage to the Unsullied than a river of a forest would be. The Unsullied are actually inferior to Westerosi soldiers since they are outdated by two millennia.

Yes, it allows other tactics, but the Dothraki don't employ them. Furthermore, they actually lack the heavy cavalry to make good use of it. And the Westerosi are used to them either way, that's what Robb Stark did with his 6,000-odd men.

The problem for Westeros wouldn't be military, but economy and society. 20,000 Dothraki in 50-man bands riding through Westeros murpillaping after the khalasar was destroyed? Big trouble, civil unrest and all that to be exploited by Aegon and the Golden Company a few years down the line. But it wouldn't help the Dothraki at all.

[E-Ro]

It's possible the author messed up. I just don't get why he had to stress that they don't use armor or do sieges. Like, wtf was he thinking if he wanted them to be a credible threat?

[Inquisitor Glokta]

No, they don't. They come from people who have.

I must have missed the part where Ned, Robert and Tyrion went backpacking through Essos in their youth and spent a few month with a khalsar. Otherwise, the only statement from a Westerosi about the Dothraki prowess in battle came from Jorah talking to Dany, and we all know he wanted to get in her pants...

[Grimbold]

Aren't you all forgetting something?

IF this is a dothraki horde with Dany at it's head, then this will most likely mean Barristan Selmy is with her, you know, a more than capable commander. Everyone is just assuming westeros would've a brainless khalasar wondering about raiding and being raided to death.

[Draco_Dracul]

well the idea was the knights were only a small portion of the army. \

That doesn't matter because most of the Dothraki will be dead from arrow wounds long before the encounter a Knight due to standing archers having longer ranges and the Dothraki being far more vulnerable to arrows than men at arms.

[Light a wight tonight]

Dothraki army is an oxymoron. Dothraki are an unorganized mob, not an army.

Beyond that, getting a sizable number of Dothraki effectives from Essos across the Narrow Sea would be next to impossible. Not just the fighters, but their horses, including remounts and food and water for them. You'd need to transfer the whole tribe or some other Khal would seize the women and children and sell them for slaves. More food and water. Plus, of course, you'd need to persuade them to get on ships to cross the sea, which they have a dread of.

And on the off chance that you were able to solve the logistics, when they land it's Winter, and those darling rawhide vests simply don't make it as cold-weather gear.