Naming of Royal/Noble Houses

[Red Priest]

I'm just wondering what the House naming tradition in Westeros is like. If say for instance, Stannis wins the throne and his only heir is Shireen. After she inherits and dies, her son say by Jon, Sweetrobin, Butterbumps or whoever inherits. The son will he be of House Baratheon or will he be of House Snow, Arryn, Clown etc.

In the Bael the Bard legend House Stark appears to have carried on through Bael's son although obviously he was not of direct Stark male descent. But since this appears to be just a legend, in reality what do you think would happen?

NB: If this has already been covered, I would be most grateful for a link to the relevant thread. Haven't found one myself so far.

[OberynBlackfyre]

kinda like Tommen. Probably a combined House heraldry/rule

[Tywin Manderly]

Any children of Shireen would take the name of Baratheon.

[Raven in Winter]

*snickers* butterbumps of house clown

I would guess kid would be named after the fathers family. Westorsi society is extremely patriarchal.

[Blutraven]

They'd take the royal name.

[Red Tiger]

They'd take the royal name.

Im not sure about that

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaenyra_Targaryen

She wed Ser Laenor Velaryon, the son of Lord Corlys Velaryon and Princess Rhaenys Targaryen. They had three sons together: Jacerys 'Jace' Velaryon, Lucerys 'Luke' Velaryon, and Joffrey Velaryon. All of them were near adulthood and had dragons of their own when Rhaenyra's father Viserys I died. It is rumored that those sons of Rhaenyra's were actually fathered by her lover, Ser Harwin Strong. Rhaenyra's other sons, the future Aegon III and Viserys II were fathered by her second husband, her uncle Prince Daemon Targaryen, the most experienced warrior of his time. Her father's intention that she should follow him on the Iron Throne was confirmed by proclamation and the will of Viserys I.

[Red Priest]

I just remembered that when Orys Baratheon slew the last Storm King of the House Durrendon and took over the Stormlands, he married Argilac's daughter, Argella and founded the house Baratheon. It is however said that he kept the words, banners of House Durrendon. So maybe it's a matter of choice for the new ruler?

I remember somewhere in AGOT during the royal visit to Winterfell where Jon Snow sneers at Lannister pride while viewing Joffrey's coat of arms provoking a very feminist response from Arya. The subsequent conversation hints that one can choose to include their maternal coat of arms if they wish to.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

It would be the choice of the heir. But in 99.99% of the cases, they choose the more prestigous name - the one of the royal House.

[Fightbringer]

Any children of Shireen would take the name of Baratheon.

i doubt that if it were say, a lannister who she married, that the child would take the surname 'baratheon' (unless she was queen, in which case it might be more of a grey area) i think there's no rules on this things, people make a choice which surname they or there children will take

[Fanless Mace]

They'd take whatever name was most politically expedient and least likely to be challenged at the time. Also, it's likely many female rulers will look to the more" modern" Dorne as a precedent for passing the family name through the female side, especially when no male heir is present. One imagines, for instance, that any child of a Mormont woman at the time of ASOFAI might gladly retain the Mormont name, unless their father had a more bitchin' name OR the child grows up to marry someone more powerful. It's all about positioning and framing one's rights. And I suspect, with Cersei having been the de facto Queen in at least some eyes, the era of men men men men men on the throne and first in inheritance may be is passing.

[Tywin Manderly]

i doubt that if it were say, a lannister who she married, that the child would take the surname 'baratheon' (unless she was queen, in which case it might be more of a grey area) i think there's no rules on this things, people make a choice which surname they or there children will take

There are indeed no rules, and it therefore a matter of free choice, but anyone in his or her right mind would choose the royal name, since that name is more prestigious and provides a link to the previous monarchs sitting the Iron Throne.

[belladeuil]

The name goes with the inheritance. When Harry Hardyng inherits the Eyrie, he will become an Arrin. When Bael the Bard's son inherited Winterfell, he became a Stark (if he was not one already). Had Jaecaerys Velaryon inherited the Iron Thorne, he would have taken the Targaryen name.

Davos Baratheon, son of Orys Baratheon and Argella Durrandon, inherited Storm's End through his father, who received Storm's End from Aegon the Conqueror. If he had inherited Storm's End through his mother, he would have taken the Durrandon name.

[OmnomnomPomelo]

If Stannis was king and this happens then all he has to do is make a law: children of Shireen must be called Baratheon. So no problems.

[Lowborn]

The name goes with the inheritance. When Harry Hardyng inherits the Eyrie, he will become an Arrin. When Bael the Bard's son inherited Winterfell, he became a Stark (if he was not one already). Had Jaecaerys Velaryon inherited the Iron Thorne, he would have taken the Targaryen name.

Davos Baratheon, son of Orys Baratheon and Argella Durrandon, inherited Storm's End through his father, who received Storm's End from Aegon the Conqueror. If he had inherited Storm's End through his mother, he would have taken the Durrandon name.

I have a little problem with people who state this in such a certain way. As far as I know we have no direct saying, in either the books or an SSM, that this must be the case. It seems like the most likely scenario, and I believe it at least in the case of Harry the Heir, but we don't actually know. If anything, it would be a case to case thing, not something that is law or set in iron custom.

I will add though that we have an example of a person suggested a name change in the case of the survival of a dynasty. Leobald Tallhart suggests naming his youngest son, Halys Hornwood's nephew, as the heir to Hornwood and also adds that he might even change his name from Tallhart to Hornwood. Of course this doesn't happen, and it's not even the solution supported by Bran, but the fact that he puts it forward and nobody speaks about it being strange we can assume that changing names isn't unheard of in the case of matrilineal inheritance.

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

Im not sure about that

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaenyra_Targaryen

Their children inherited Velaryon lands, not the crown, so they were Velaryons.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I have a little problem with people who state this in such a certain way. As far as I know we have no direct saying, in either the books or an SSM, that this must be the case. It seems like the most likely scenario, and I believe it at least in the case of Harry the Heir, but we don't actually know. If anything, it would be a case to case thing, not something that is law or set in iron custom.

I will add though that we have an example of a person suggested a name change in the case of the survival of a dynasty. Leobald Tallhart suggests naming his youngest son, Halys Hornwood's nephew, as the heir to Hornwood and also adds that he might even change his name from Tallhart to Hornwood. Of course this doesn't happen, and it's not even the solution supported by Bran, but the fact that he puts it forward and nobody speaks about it being strange we can assume that changing names isn't unheard of in the case of matrilineal inheritance.

We have multiple examples of that happening in the books. Dozens even.

[Wmarshal]

Im not sure about that

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaenyra_Targaryen

That probably had more to do with their questionable heritage then following tradition.

[Lowborn]

We have multiple examples of that happening in the books. Dozens even.

I must have missed those then, the Tallhart example was the only one I remembered. Still, I am relatively certain it is never stated as either law or custom, only examples where it happens. From this I make the conclusion that heirs taking their ruling mother's name is common, but not necessary. It probably depends on the prestige of the houses involved. I am almost certain Harry the Heir is going to become an Arryn if he becomes lord, for example. Obviously, this is only my interpretations and guesses.