Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

Members
  • Content count

    122
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

  • Rank
    Sellsword
  1. Going through the red waste was the only good decision that was available to her. It was either that, or go one of the other ways and risk getting killed or enslaved. It's not a decision she made impulsively (Jorah insists on it). Also, she follows the red comet because there's nothing else to do. And the Dothraki are superstitious, so following the comet keep their hope and faith intact (the reason for her vocal insistence on following the comet). In the end, it turns out to be the right decision. Whether it was coincidence or not depends. The red comet obviously has magical connotations in the books. And it was the bloodrider that followed the comet who finds Quarth, Dany's destination after that dead city. I wouldn't say Dany's decision in this regard is like jumping off a cliff. She faced an impossible situation and did the best she could. If she had jumped off a cliff, she would have abandoned the remains of Drogo's khalasar and sailed off to Asshai with Jorah. She doesn't do that. She stays with the elderly and the sick and leads them to safety. She's a bit like Nymeria (the Rhoynar queen) in this regard.
  2. Mine too! Arya is my all time fav POV character in the books! I can't even explain why. I got so absorbed in her POV in AFFC and I didn't even care that some other main POVs were absent (also DwD had come out when I started reading). I like that fact that she's a survivor like you mentioned. She's also really smart (in GoT, when they are on the way to King's Landing, Arya can enumerate the flowers they have seen). And she doesn't let anyone walk all over her either (beating up Hot Pie in ACoK). She also carries this anger and hatred inside, but doesn't curl up in the corner and cry about it. She has the only POV that's in all 5 books, so I suspect she's more important than we realize. I have Dany as my second favorite. Though she did really frustrate me in DwD (chaining up the dragons, ugh Daario), she has one of the most unique POVs in the books. She overcomes impossible situations, and is also a survivor, kind of like Arya. I mean, she's a young girl in a world that's really dangerous to young girls, but she ends up being the dragon queen. She also shows the ability to rise above prejudice that everyone else holds. Above all, she can empathize, a characteristic most other characters in the story lack. After that, I go with the direwolves and the dragons.
  3. I'm not sure I get your point about Elmina. If you are referring to the fact that it is really poor today (no grand structures) considering that it was a major trading port centuries ago? That's because it's was a colony. The cities in Slaver's Bay are not colonies. The Portuguese, Dutch, and later British used places like Elmina for trade, but never intended to settle. So they never invested in the cities themselves. I made the same point about Singapore before. Back in the day, Singapore was a major trading port for all the European trading companies. But that didn't result in Singapore seeing development parallel to, say, Lisbon. It was much later, following independence, that Singapore got rich. The case is different for Slaver's Bay, where the slavers trade slave in their native lands (they are not simultaneously colonists as well). So there's an incentive to build grand cities because that's their homeland. Well, slavery is always viable in an agrarian economy. Look at agriculture in general today. It's notably more advanced with machinery and whatnot, but who picks the strawberries? The agriculture sector in the U.S. is still heavily dependent on underpaid labor. Even in Latin America, parts of Asia, and elsewhere, farming is lucrative, but the laborers get paid pretty much nothing. The industrial north switched to machines replacing most of the unskilled labor. Would you say that the years and money spent researching these machines and building them are not worth the returns? The machines can work 24/7 and don't demand salaries. Companies save tons of money replacing people with machines. Likewise, having unpaid workers, whether skilled or not, who work all day is far more cost efficient than having paid workers who work shifts. If you are referring to the Unsullied, the super commando soldiers, of course they are worth the price that costs to train them, house them and feed them. They are trained soldiers. The cities and merchants in Essos are super rich, and they face serious threats like the Dothraki. They are not miserly when it comes to defense. In fact, it seems an area they tend to splurge in. Even today, rich countries and people spend freely for security and defense tech, and also soldiers. In GoT, Dany describes how Pentos spends on sellswords and Unsullied guards when the Dothraki turns up. Imagine how much more the sellswords would cost if they were as skilled, loyal and disciplined as the Unsullied. That's why the slavers bother to train the Unsullied. The ones they lose are considered weak and the stronger the bunch is, the more they are worth. I have zero knowledge of botany, but I do get what you are trying to say. I remember in ACoK, Arya eats corn on her way to the north. If Westeros is based on medieval Britain then where did the corn come from? How do they even grow it there? Details like that definitely raise eyebrows. GRRM probably didn't spend that much attention when he wrote some of the stuff. So we shouldn't either, I think. It's exactly the POV structure that made me think that he's showing not telling. There's no third-person omnipresent narrator, which would have sent the books spiraling into the telling category. In fact, the author's voice is totally absent. We see what the characters see, and we know what the characters think. We are supposed to put two and two together based on all that. That, for me, is showing not telling. And that's also what makes the books so immersive and feel so real.
  4. When I read the Slaver's Bay parts in the books, it reminded me most of the factors of the transatlantic slave trade from the school history books. I'm not actually making an highly educated historical comparison here. I'm sure there are similar to Roman and Arab slavery here as well. But people getting nabbed from here and there for the sole purpose of becoming slaves strongly apparels the transatlantic slave trade. Owning a human is expensive, but not if that human can be turned into a commodity that generates revenue that exceeds that cost. The Essoi slavers are doing that buy training slaves into being servants, farmers, or soldiers. Then they buy or rent them, making these slaves their main source of income. The slaves are their finished goods. American South shows that slavery is a highly viable and lucrative enterprise when you take the out the human factor of it all. The African slaves in history did serve as foot soldiers to British and Portuguese quite prominently as I remember. I have no idea about Elmina so I don't get the point here. I think GRRM is getting inspiration from many places from early to very late medieval periods. I didn't say hybrid economies, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I know GRRM is heavily basing this on medieval European history, but when I read about Braavos, the state founded by slaves, the first thing that came to my mind was Haiti, not a medieval European city. GRRM is a shower, not teller, so I think that allows him not to detail every single thing. We are to discern how things are. I mean, we know Ned was the lord of Winterfell, but do we really need to know how he collected taxes? I agree that nitpicking over some things is kind of senseless. What do you mean about the "way phenotypes follow surnames" or evolution of plants? Totally at a loss here.
  5. Yes, Braavos has no value as a trading outpost, and it's not like the they don't know it. A country or a place doesn't have to have value as a trading port to get rich in the real world or in ASOIAF world (Highgarden, Casterly Rock, etc). The comparison I made with Singapore was to illustrate that point. Obviously, a medieval made-up world doesn't have the same tech as in the real world. As I mentioned, Singapore didn't make its money being a trading post, it did so using financial instruments like investment banking you mention. Braavos tries a medieval fantasy world equivalent of this. That's how they got rich. You wondered why Braavos is rich when they don't have any natural resources and is located so far off the main trading routes, and that's the likely reason. Braavos does have other valuable commodities, like the purple dye that gets so famous. Also I forgot to mention Faceless Men. I know they are only one group, but we know they are world famous assassins that cost a lot of money to hire. The FM would be another major commodity Braavos has, like Swiss mercenaries in the middle ages. The slaves are their valuable commodity. It's like buying raw metal and turning it into a value-added commodity like steel pipes. I know it's a crude comparison but this is the basic economic model that sustains this region. Salver's Bay is like the middle man between the plantation owner and the African warlord. There's apparently high demand for the slaves in Essos, so how can they not profit? The slaves also provide unpaid labor to the slavers, that's more money saved. Can you maybe specify how this model is nonviable? It doesn't matter if the some of the boys die during training, because their lives are worth nothing financially to the trainers. They can always get more. The boys are only worth once they become fully trained Unsullied. What do you mean "economically unproductive"? They provide much needed protection to the highlords and rich states like Pentos. Threats like the Dothraki makes the Unsullied another invaluable commodity. The rich pay a lot to hire or buy the Unsullied. Also, the Unsullied provide protection to the slavers, so this is their army too. And it's an army they don't have to pay for. They only have to pay for the training, and selling and renting the Unsullied covers that cost. This again reminds me of the Swiss mercenaries (in the way of profit, not the training and the enslavement). I'm not sure about which slave soldiers you are talking about. I'm talking about the salve soldiers of colonial Portuguese. The Portuguese sent enslaved men to fight their colonial wars in places like South Asia. These slave soldiers were not paid, and certainly didn't get any benefits. They were not highly trained like the Unsullied, but they did get basic training. The Unsullied serves a similar purpose, where the slavers can own a deadly army without the typical costs associated with one. Are you talking about the price revolution? It was caused by several factors from what I remember. There was an oversupply of gold and silver, because Spain was mining the stuff in the Americas and sending them over to native land where the demand didn't match the supply. That is definitely not what is happening at Casterly Rock. What makes you think the Lannisters are mining "unlimited" amounts of gold? They have gold rich land and they sell this gold everywhere in the world. The worldwide demand clearly outweighs the supply so the metal remains precious. In addition to raw gold, they make stuff with gold, so value added commodities.That's why the Lannisters are filthy rich. By cash do you mean gold dragons? Lannisport trades with Essos and it is mentioned in the books. GoT even has a gold trader from Lannisport trading in the Dothraki western market. The Essoi ships have to go to Lannisport to get their gold. Being on the other side doesn't matter here apparently. Places like White Harbor are closer, but the trade there flows from east to the west where eastern goods are purchased by the Westerosi. So they don't get rich like Lannisport, where the ships come to buy Lannister gold. Maybe you are right, but I don't get how you are making these calculations. How do we know how much money partying costs in Westeros? Ned shows shock when he realizes Robert has put the realm in millions of debt. He clearly is an incompetent ruler. He doesn't even attend the finance meetings. Robert is negligent, ignorant and should never have been on the throne. Even he realizes it in the end. Ned's fault is his inability to stand up to his friend (and also underestimating political opponents. How could he seriously think that Cersei would tuck her tail and flee to Essos if her kids were in danger? She is the richest daughter in Westeros!) Lol. GRRM doesn't specifically detail the how the lord system works in Westeros either, but we do understand it to be a feudal system with landowning lords. He is not explicitly describing the economy in a similar manner, so why would it somehow not resemble a plausible historical economic system? I don't see any glaring plot holes here or even minor ones that are inexplicable.
  6. Braavos gets rich by trading in secret with Westeros and some other kingdoms for reasons that are actually important to the overall plot. (Being Secret City is very important to Braavos history, and also to the overall story about the fire magic thing). Obviously, they managed to achieve this without being in the middle of a trade route. I don't have much knowledge of ancient Venice, but Braavos reminds me a bit of modern day Singapore. Sure, Singapore is in the smack middle of a major shipping route, but that's not how they got rich. (When it was a colonial outpost, the pace was a real criminal-infested dump in fact.) The city state has absolutely nothing in terms of natural or land resources, but they got rich by playing at finance. TWOIAF mentions Braavosi made a special dye, that was their first major commodity, and they expanded. The trade routes were already established by the Valyrians, so Braavosi only had to get their goods there. And then, like Singapore, they got rich using financial instruments I suppose, mainly the Iron Bank. The original escaped slaves there were also skilled apparently, so it's not hard to believe that they managed to build something out of nothing. Also, Braavosi don't make their own ships as far as I remember. The original ships they got were stolen Valyrian ones, and afterwards they probably bought ships or the wood to make them. Obviously, the slave cities are based on the slave economy of America and Europe during the colonial era. The economy of the American south, for example, was entirely built on slave labor, and the south got really rich off that until the Civil War. The slavers own the slaves, they don't have to pay them. That's a lot of money saved on paying for labor. And the slaves do everything from farming to soldiering without getting an actual salary. Slaves are the in-demand commodity of free cities, and they sell chattel around the world so it's not hard to believe that they turn a major profit. We don't see many slaves in Westeros, but even some Westerosi buy them, like Patchface (but when they come to Westeros they are not legally slaves). Also, how can slave soldiers not be profitable? Maintaining an army is expensive when you have to actually pay the soldiers. But when you can just own the soldiers, like the arrows and the swords, you only have to pay for food, clothing, etc, and not a salary. The money and resources spent on training the slaves would be similar to training a non-slave army. And now imagine how much the slavers can save by not paying extra salaries. And the Unsullied are a highly trained force. Cities like Pentos, which are super rich thanks to trading commodities with the far east, apparently pay those slaver cities a lot of money to hire or buy Unsullied, so the bottom line is more than covered. Why would buying slaves not be profitable? The slave cities pay next to nothing for get the slaves from Dothraki and pirates and whatever. It doesn't cost anything for the slave grabbers to enslave people, and whatever they get in return for human chattel is profitable. For the slavers, they can pay little for slaves and then pay a bit more to get them trained, and then they have a highly valued commodity to sell or use. So I don't really see the problem how the slave trade can not be lucrative for places like Mereen. That's exactly the reason why such a horribly oppressive system endures. I highly doubt the gold mines Casterly Rock produces "unlimited amounts of gold." It doesn't get devalued because the demand across the world is bigger than the supply from this one place. Remember, The Lannisters sell gold in Essos as well. Also, Lannisters are rich because they control Lannisport, the main trade connection between the east and the west. The Tyrells produce the most food on the realm but I don't see them selling it across the realm. Westeros has an agrarian economy with small local farms. Tyrells probably sell some of the food, especially to nearby areas, but not everywhere. Food is a perishable good, while gold is not. That's why Lannisters can sell gold around the world and profit like crazy. As for the point you make about winter, the people are obviously not preparing for it. No one is storing food, the opposite is happening where farming land is destroyed by war. And the fact that Robert bankrupted the realm thanks to his negligence and ignorance about basic economy is not an in-story perception. We are told how much debt Robert puts the realm in so we are the ones making that connection. The Hound wins only 40,000 as the champion. Nearly 90,000 is spent on all the winners of various competitions. Well, if the Lannisters managed to give the crown 3 million gold dragons, 40, 000 is not enough to become the wealthiest man in Westeros overnight. Also, land ownership is the real marker of wealth in the realm, not currency. I don't remember the time period where these people spent the money. But if someone has cash on hand, it will definitely get spent, especially when they are aimlessly wandering. There are no banks in Westeros or a concept of saving cash. So the natural instinct would be to spend cash without risking it getting stolen (especially for a traveller). It's really easy to spend money at bars, even in ancient ones, because these places are just giant traps that get drunk men to spend money mindlessly. So it's not completely unbelievable that happens. Even the good majority of people who win lotteries today don't manage to keep their money. GRRM is not giving us a highly detailed account of the economic system in Westeros and Essos to draw definitive conclusions clearly. It's based on how economics were conducted in the medieval and colonial periods, so I don't really see how what he has written so far makes no sense.
  7. Some POV chapters, like Arya's, do mention what the common people think or feel about what the people in power do. It's mostly along the lines of "this is how things are". So that's already established. Having just one commoner POV would do terrible injustice the number of opinions being involved. GRRM may include like a prologue or standalone chapter coming from a commoner POV exclusively in the upcoming books, mostly to show what the war has done to things like the food supply and how that fares with the coming winter.
  8. How so?
  9. We get some commoner perspective from Arya's chapters, especially in GoT when she's at Flea Bottom.
  10. Okay. I didn't write that
  11. The Others return before the return of fire magic and before dragons are born. WW are present in the GoT prologue, and when we go to the Wall we know that many ranger parties have disappeared before. The Others are a completely different species. It will be like humans and dragons trying to communicate. Anyway, there could be a way to communicate with them because there are legends of human interactions with the Others, like Night's King.
  12. I think you are confusing hospital births with non-hospital ones. Newborns do need to be nursed soon as they are done wailing. And they already know how to nurse. The babies that don't are the exception to the rule. Newborns don't wait "several hours" after birth to nurse, they do it in the first couple. Unless the birth is a cesarean, but that's a new thing. Mothers immediately produce nutrition for babies once the baby is born. Medically it's known as something else, but for all other purposes it's milk. Some mothers don't lactate, and that's also the exception to the rule. An infant who isn't nursed and loses body weight as much as a pound will not survive in a medieval world. Newborns in hospitals can survive most conditions because there are teams of doctors to look after them. This is not the case in a medieval setting. A newborn who is not properly taken care of soon after birth will most likely die whether in the modern world or the ancient world. Dany is also camping in the middle of nowhere, where no one is prepared for a birth, and the chances of a newborn surviving that is quite slim. It's even a miracle that Dany survived it. Who says that "my dreams, unlike yours, come true" or something like that? I thought it was Egg. Anyway it was a Targ. The original point I was going to make is that Dany has prophetic dreams like her ancestors, and in one of them she sees the adult Rhaego would have grown up to be if he was born. But that doesn't happen, she gets other "children" instead. It's very hard to believe an event as explicitly described as Dany's curse abortion didn't go as GRRM describes it. It was in a POV chapter and we read it happening in real time. I can't think of any other instance that something that we read about in real time turns out to be something else. Feel free to point out if I'm wrong about this. The other supposed baby swap with fAegon is an event in the past that we learn about in passing from people who never actually saw the deaths happen. Jon's parentage issue is also something that happens in the past, and Ned's POV chapter is never explicit about it either (mostly because GRRM is carefully crafting that particular mystery).
  13. You say MMD could have hid a newborn in her medicine chest, given the chest to some slave who would have ridden off with one of the Dothraki who abandoned Drogo. Then the baby would come out of the chest to breathe and be nursed by a slave woman who would also have given birth. And during this journey the baby would not die. A newborn, possibly premature baby wouldn't survive being stuffed in a chest. Someone would have seen it. The baby needs to be nursed the moment it's born anyway. But none of the safety precautions occurs and Rhaego somehow miraculously survives. Of course, no one sees MMZ passing over a chest, or hears a baby inside. Rhaego is a good baby who sleeps quietly. And the Dothraki, who absolutely loathes the maegi, don't notice her chest. And no one notices a new baby popping out of nowhere because there are so many pregnant women there? This is exactly the sort of stretch GRRM doesn't allow. Have you been reading the books? Of course Dany has prophetic dreams just like her ancestors. She dreams the waking of dragons early in GoT. Then her dream when she is out at the end is sort of prophetic. Then in later books she has similar dreams, like the army of ice. Of course Dany has that Targ prophetic ability where dreams do actually come true. It's not to the strong level of being an actual oracle of some sort, but it's like what Egg in the other books have. (I haven't read them, but there's a collection of dream prophesies from that series in the Citadel section). This is highly speculative. Even GRRM has admitted that his "seed is strong" dark hair supersedes light hair from AGoT was wrong. So there's no way what you say is an actual accepted fact. Dany just doesn't dream Rhaego with copper skin and silver hair and violet eyes. It's the same Rhaego she's shown in House of Undying as well. Same figure from two different accounts. That's how Rhaego would have looked like if he had actually been born. Why would MMD be an unreliable character? It turns out what she says is actually true, after a fashion. She doesn't deliberately try to deceive Dany. She bandages Drogo's would as he asks her to, and then after the spell he is still alive. Considering that she hasn't lied to Dany's face outright so far, why would you believe that she is lying when she says her baby came out some lizard creature that's been dead for years? The dead part being the key word here. They can strangle the baby, but that would be hard with spectators. MMZ could try snapping the baby's neck, or drowning it or whatever, but that's not easy with others there. This is also assuming that she would actually get to deliver the baby. Women who are heavily pregnant or has just given birth cannot ride. That's why that one woman and her baby gets left behind. Dothraki can migrate with newborns, but the mother and the baby would probably be carried. Dany noticed that the newborn dies because it cannot withstand the ride, not because of the climate. There are at least two I remember. There's Septon Barth's claim of a Valyrian prophesy that says doom of man comes from the west. There's also that Dothraki saying of ghost grass covering the whole world consuming everything that is alive. Both these prophesies strongly allude to the Others. He's a red priest of R'hllor. He doesn't know how it happens because that's not what he intends. That's why red priests believe the Lord of the Light brings people back from the dead at his will. So that case would be divine intervention, maybe, because Thoros doesn't do any magic as far as we know. But there is a give-take where the resurrected aren't as human as they were before. Maybe their own death pays for their undead life. He does it again with Catelyn and we know she's not the same after. Also, that sort of happens off screen so we don't know if he actually did some ritual. Only if you ignore the two visions and Pyat Pree telling Dany of her blood betrayal. As I said before, MMD doesn't outright lie. It's a good question if she deceived Dany, or Dany just chose to trust her without asking the right questions.
  14. It will solely depending on which side you are with wouldn't it? You called WWII "battle for civilizations" as in of Europe, because that's how you see things from the Western side. But someone from the Indian side would call the "battle for civilizations" for what Gandhi did for India. There are still many countries that side or empathize with Germany in WWII, not because they approve of Holocaust, but because it helped get rid of the British Empire. It's all a matter of what threatens you the most. It's the sort of thing GRRM is trying to show here I think with his play of perspectives. People who are fans of the King's Landing stuff thinks it's the most important and Dany should go there asap. Then if there are Essoi fans they would like to see how Dany's anti-slavery mission changes the politics there and also see what is going on in places like Asshai. In the end, I think both matters a lot to the overall plot to overthrow the Others, if not overtly, at least subtly. If you obsess over one POV, then you will miss seeing the overall picture.