Sci-2

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    The 11th Little Indian

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  1. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    Well it would suck to wait longer than a year or so, but if there's enough new tidbits we can probably keep slogging along. AIs, consciousness, simulation hypothesis, idealism, Gnosticism, negative theology, language & logic, genetics, ethics, transhumanism....we've run through a remarkable number of topics in the intervening span so far...
  2. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    I just assumed they were all dead at this point? Could an Intact Quya, let along an Erratic, survive that long wandering in darkness?
  3. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    yeah I really hope there's some kind of explanation in the book. i'm beginning to think it might inch up toward Dragons and Chorae status...
  4. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    I suspect the Consult has grown reckless as they are so close to their goal. They fear an unknown quantity like the Dunyain - we know Dunyain have no magical prowess but the Consult had no clue so were willing to exterminate them lest they fall prey to an army of meta-gnostic sorcerers.
  5. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    But this then suggests sorcerer salt isn't Chanv but some has some as yet unknown purpose in Earwa that makes it more valuable than regular salt? Unless we're going with the idea that the kid is a runner for some drug cartel and had special knowledge about how sorcerer salt is Chanv? Admittedly a possibility but I'm skeptical.
  6. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    Just want to point out this wasn't me. I just noted that the idea would fit into the notions of final causation where entities point toward natural ends and the Dunyain would subvert/pervert those natural ends. edit: As to the rest, yeah my problem is a metapyhsical whodunnit should at the very least give us a consistency to the world that isn't just a dismissive hand-wave where the reader is blamed for working through the text.
  7. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    How do you know it's sorcerer salt if you've not preserved the sorcerer's form? I mean maybe the boy was trying to break off a whole limb? But from what we've seen doesn't the salt break apart with relative ease?
  8. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    I was just thinking you'd need a massive amount of Inchie corpses assuming Chanv production had been going along for a decent amount of time? It's interesting to think that Inchies, knowing that damnation awaited them, were willing to endure the procedures that might enable them to wield sorcery [but were more likely to kill them]? Did Sil have some power over his subjects that would be the Tekne equivalent to the Cants of Compulsion?
  9. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    Ah so the Well of the Aborted is located near Chanv production?
  10. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    It's worth pointing out that from a Gnostic perspective the Machines in the Matrix are akin to the Archons in that they lack the fragment of divine light (IIRC this the pleroma). So the sucking on humans as batteries is more the Archons hunger for the pleroma than an optimal means of getting electricity. Comparing this with the Bakkerverse - are the Hundred also somehow artificial, or at least lacking in something Earwan souls possess? The text even suggests they are more like spiders than humans - and for all their power they can't even fight against the No-God or perceive its arrival. Perhaps the Hundred and No-God are forms of material life, and just as the Hundred need to feed on souls to live the No-God needs a soul in the Carapace to exist? But if a human or Nonman soul possesses that shard of pleroma, a fragment of the True God, can that fragment somehow serve to awaken that deity somehow? Is this how the No-God was defeated the first time around?
  11. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    Isn't Chanv production a mystery though? Why would a boy on the street know it? And if it's not for Chanv, what reason is sorcerer salt more valuable than regular salt and why has it not be elucidated after all this time?
  12. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    I think salt is just incredibly valuable - that's why that boy was trying to get some?
  13. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    Clearly you are: -Being selective in your whining since hey, it's just fantasy maaaaaannnnn. -Unable to deal with the HARD IMPLICATIONS only Bakker and his most loyal fans can cope with. -A Kalbear alt
  14. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    There doesn't seem to a topoi in Ishual though? I actually wondered about this as well, but if the Daimos opens a gateway between Inward and Outside isn't that enough?
  15. Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fractions

    What I mean by philosophically wrong is that if you think of the God splintering as creating reality, but this splintering is due to an event in reality, you have a contradiction. If everything is determined from Beginning to End then how is Kellhus or Mimara able to break free of the Block Universe you (and admittedly Bakker in some parts of the text) suggest? I think the Hundred set up what happens in the Outside, though they can't affect the Inward as easily (perhaps because the God's dream is more lucid there?) and thus have to utilize servants. On souls and consciousness...you might be right...it's admittedly confusing to try and figure out how these relate based on the text. The Weapon Races are self-aware since we get their POVs. So self-awareness isn't proof of being ensouled. And then there are animal who seem to every so often get souls. @Baztek I agree with a good amount here. Though I'm not sure about: "In the mysteries, all operations that are conducive to experiencing the divine are performed with complete detachment and not the slightest emotional investment..." Seems to me any desire for enlightenment of the Truth is from the Divine Spark as the gnostics would call it? I think there can be a selfless love, and metaphorically Bakker is using one of the most potent symbols of this idea -> A mother's love for her children. I think this kind of love is a kind of opportunity to reach for the God of Gods via a kind of understanding that Kellhus is perhaps incapable of having. It's knowledge of an emotional state, and thus not something than can be abstracted via mathematics nor captured in logical chains of reasoning: "In the same way I love my child, God - who is Us - loves Us. So through gnosis of this love I awaken to the part of me that is Divine." It may even come to pass that only a female Cish can truly grasp the God....Mimara's daughter maybe, or a descendant of her line?