Put away the GNC, we already have a new King in the North

[C0bR]

The North is in ruins now because of a series of poor choices made by the Starks. They weren't simply betrayed. In fact many reprisals they recieve (such as Theon taking Winterfell and to an extent the Red Wedding) are well deserved

Do I believe that that people with more food and less ice monsters are going to come out on top over those with snow to eat and Others to keep them company? Yes. It's simply the logical conclusion. I don't believe the Northerners are some master race

How is it in ruins? Most of it is intact with stores stocked with food from several harvests. Few places like Winterfell don't mean anything in grand scheme of things in an area of thousands of square miles.

They certainly have more food for winter than burned down Riverlands, burned down Westerlands, already starving Crownlands, deserts of Dorne or the wasteful Reach that probably does not keep anything for winter as they don't expect it to come at all if Catelyn's account of their spending is anything to go by.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

They certainly have more food for winter than burned down Riverlands, burned down Westerlands, already starving Crownlands, deserts of Dorne or the wasteful Reach that probably does not keep anything for winter as they don't expect it to come at all if Catelyn's account of their spending is anything to go by.

Not to mention IB decimating the Reach too. All in all i think all Kingdoms are screwed.

[Lilly Snow]

The North is in ruins now because of a series of poor choices made by the Starks. They weren't simply betrayed. In fact many reprisals they recieve (such as Theon taking Winterfell and to an extent the Red Wedding) are well deserved

Do I believe that that people with more food and less ice monsters are going to come out on top over those with snow to eat and Others to keep them company? Yes. It's simply the logical conclusion. I don't believe the Northerners are some master race

Ok you obviously hate the Starks and I'm not going to debate what they deserved/didn't deserve with you since I don't think you're going to analyze them objectively.

But where are you getting the more food/less ice monsters thing from? What is the guarantee of this?

Plus I definitely don't think the Northerners are some master race. Its just a matter of simple logic coz you know, they live in a place with harsh winters and all, unlike the Southerners. Which has been emphasized in the books repeatedly.

[Salinda]

No. Stannis has done a terrible job of ruling the North. He doesn't understand the locals. The crofter's village is a perfect example of how terrible a ruler Stannis would make. He's secluded himself from everyone else, left his men to starve to death, and burned people alive for committing a crime he consider himself in his youth, all the while suffering significantly greater casualties then the Northerns who have little patience for him, his men, and his religion.

He's done a terrible job?! Please read the original post and you'll that such an opinion is quite clearly incorrect. He's the best thing that could happen to the North at this very moment

Maester Cressen told him to consider eating the dead. He never considered it himself. The Northerners may not like his religion, but a price has to be paid for them to get the vengeance they want, something only Stannis can deliver

[Salinda]

How is it in ruins? Most of it is intact with stores stocked with food from several harvests. Few places like Winterfell don't mean anything in grand scheme of things in an area of thousands of square miles.

They certainly have more food for winter than burned down Riverlands, burned down Westerlands, already starving Crownlands, deserts of Dorne or the wasteful Reach that probably does not keep anything for winter as they don't expect it to come at all if Catelyn's account of their spending is anything to go by.

Stannis men are starving there is not much forage left in the wolfswood. Sure Winterfell may have stores, but for how long? No new harvest can be planted and tons of farmhands died in the war anyways.

The Westerlands and the Reach are from burnt down. And Dorne has tons of food, doubtless they'll suffer the least of the Winter anyways. The North is not in a good position at all

[Lilly Snow]

How is it in ruins? Most of it is intact with stores stocked with food from several harvests. Few places like Winterfell don't mean anything in grand scheme of things in an area of thousands of square miles.

They certainly have more food for winter than burned down Riverlands, burned down Westerlands, already starving Crownlands, deserts of Dorne or the wasteful Reach that probably does not keep anything for winter as they don't expect it to come at all if Catelyn's account of their spending is anything to go by.

:agree: And if I remember correctly there were 70 courses during Joffrey's wedding.

[Salinda]

How did they deserve the RW and Theon betraying them?

For one thing Theon never betrayed them. To say that he did is also to say that Sansa betrayed her new family the Lannisters by running away

And not to derail the thread but it's clear that the RW was a result of extremely idiotic actions taken by Robb against all better sense and good judgement. So it was as I said, to an extent well deserved. But this thread isn't about that

[Salinda]

Ok you obviously hate the Starks and I'm not going to debate what they deserved/didn't deserve with you since I don't think you're going to analyze them objectively.

But where are you getting the more food/less ice monsters thing from? What is the guarantee of this?

Plus I definitely don't think the Northerners are some master race. Its just a matter of simple logic coz you know, they live in a place with harsh winters and all, unlike the Southerners. Which has been emphasized in the books repeatedly.

What is the guarantee? How about that the southern regions are more fertile and can grow more food than the North which is a tundra for the most part. Not mention fishing villages all aling the Stony Shore were raided by the Ironborn. By Asha's own account the North is a largely barren land

And no matter how acclimated they are, they will still die by the thousands. Just like they did in the last Long Night. People over estimate this Northern hardiness. There is simply little evidence to support the idea that the North will tough out the winter to a much greater degree than the Southerners. Sure they may do a bit better, but the jury's still out on how much better as far as I'm concerned, Wull boasting aside.

[Carter209]

For one thing Theon never betrayed them. To say that he did is also to say that Sansa betrayed her new family the Lannisters by running away

And not to derail the thread but it's clear that the RW was a result of extremely idiotic actions taken by Robb against all better sense and good judgement. So it was as I said, to an extent well deserved. But this thread isn't about that

What book series are you reading? Cause you got some shit messed up, for sure. That or you're just trolling hard, but I'll finally bite for this one.

#1-Theon most definitely betrays the Stark family. He fucking takes Winterfell, for Christ's sake. Then, for all appearances, he kills the heir and secondary heir of the North. If you're going to try and argue that Theon doesn't betray the Starks, then I don't know what you're smoking.

#2-The RW is not just the fault of Robb's. It's Robb's for marrying Jeyne Westerling, yes, but it's also Edmure's, for not letting Tywin pass the fords which gives Stannis time to take KL. It's Cat's for releasing Jaime(arguably). It can be attributed to Theon taking Winterfell and Ramsey sacking and burning it. It can also go to Roose for going along with the plan in the first place and killing his king. It can most assuredly go to Walder Frey for doing the deed in his castle. My point is, no one person can be blamed for the RW. It's not well deserved, either. I think it's brutal but also pretty damn effective at face value while leaving long-term problems(like we're seeing right now with the possible GNC and the goings on in the North).

Sorry to keep the derail going, everyone, but I had to say that.

[Lilly Snow]

What is the guarantee? How about that the southern regions are more fertile and can grow more food than the North which is a tundra for the most part. Not mention fishing villages all aling the Stony Shore were raided by the Ironborn. By Asha's own account the North is a largely barren land

And no matter how acclimated they are, they will still die by the thousands. Just like they did in the last Long Night. People over estimate this Northern hardiness. There is simply little evidence to support the idea that the North will tough out the winter to a much greater degree than the Southerners. Sure they may do a bit better, but the jury's still out on how much better as far as I'm concerned, Wull boasting aside.

There are going to be no fertile regions anywhere when the entire continent is covered by snow.

And little evidence?? GRRM has spent 5 books showing the decadence of the Southern nobles and how wasteful they are. The unnecessary tourneys and feasts and 77 course for a wedding! You seriously think these people are going to fare better than the people whose main house motto is Winter is Coming?

And Stannis' cause just seems doomed right now. He is stuck in the North waging war against the Boltons. His army is going to be severely weakened by the time he reaches South. Where he will inevitably face much stronger contenders for the IT (Dany and Aegon).

[Salinda]

What book series are you reading? Cause you got some shit messed up, for sure. That or you're just trolling hard, but I'll finally bite for this one.

#1-Theon most definitely betrays the Stark family. He fucking takes Winterfell, for Christ's sake. Then, for all appearances, he kills the heir and secondary heir of the North. If you're going to try and argue that Theon doesn't betray the Starks, then I don't know what you're smoking.

#2-The RW is not just the fault of Robb's. It's Robb's for marrying Jeyne Westerling, yes, but it's also Edmure's, for not letting Tywin pass the fords which gives Stannis time to take KL. It's Cat's for releasing Jaime(arguably). It can be attributed to Theon taking Winterfell and Ramsey sacking and burning it. It can also go to Roose for going along with the plan in the first place and killing his king. It can most assuredly go to Walder Frey for doing the deed in his castle. My point is, no one person can be blamed for the RW. It's not well deserved, either. I think it's brutal but also pretty damn effective at face value while leaving long-term problems(like we're seeing right now with the possible GNC and the goings on in the North).

Sorry to keep the derail going, everyone, but I had to say that.

How could Theon betray his jailers? You realize his last name is Greyjoy right? He was a political prisoner there to be killed if Balon rebelled. He owed the Starks nothing and to say otherwise is silly. It's the equivalent of saying "How could Sansa betray Tyrion who was so nice to her?!"

Edmure followed his orders to the letter, it was Robb who was a fool and left them unclear ( I highly suspect that he never really had a plan but I digress). Cat releasing Jaime had no impact on the Red Wedding. Tywin isn't going to let the chance to swiftly dispose of an enemy slip by because his son is endangered. He puts his House before his children. Theon would have never taken Winterfell if Robb wasn't so idiotic as to release him against his mother's counsel. No Theon release, no Ramsay sacking Winterfell so again it's Robb's fault. And Roose betrayed Robb because he isn't going down on a sinking ship captained by an incompetent child. And Walder gave up his heir that he was grooming for over 50 years, in Robb's war and Robb chose to repay that by shaming his House in one of the worst possible ways.

The RW is pretty much 60-70% Robb's fault. Pity the men who died in those tents. And the GNC is likely just fan imaginations running wild

[fuem]

*gets the popcorn*

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

He's done a terrible job?! Please read the original post and you'll that such an opinion is quite clearly incorrect. He's the best thing that could happen to the North at this very moment

Maester Cressen told him to consider eating the dead. He never considered it himself. The Northerners may not like his religion, but a price has to be paid for them to get the vengeance they want, something only Stannis can deliver

I disagree w/ the OP. The Crofter's Village is a microcosm of the Realm under Stannis: a bleak and terrible place.

Obviously Stannis considered cannibalism otherwise Ser Wylde would have been thrown over the walls of Storm's End instead he died in the dungeon:

“Yields?” Lord Rowan laughed. “When Mace Tyrell laid siege to Storm’s End, Stannis ate rats rather than open his gates.”

“Well I remember.” Renly lifted his chin to allow Brienne to fasten his gorget in place. “Near the end, Ser Gawen Wylde and three of his knights tried to steal out a postern gate to surrender.Stannis caught them and ordered them flung from the walls with catapults. I can still see Gawen’s face as they strapped him down. He had been our master-at-arms.”

Lord Rowan appeared puzzled. “No men were hurled from the walls. I would surely remember that.”

“Maester Cressen told Stannis that we might be forced to eat our dead, and there was no gain in flinging away good meat.” Renly pushed back his hair. Brienne bound it with a velvet tie and pulled a padded cap down over his ears, to cushion the weight of his helm. “Thanks to the Onion Knight we were never reduced to dining on corpses, but it was a close thing. Too close for Ser Gawen, who died in his cell.”

[Darksnider05]

In a siege that's the sensible thing to do with dead people and captives.

[Salinda]

I disagree w/ the OP. The Crofter's Village is a microcosm of the Realm under Stannis a bleak and terrible place.

Was ser wylde thrown over the walls of storem's end or was he thrown in the dungeon?

Stannis clearly considered cannibalism.

Renly is just lying about that men being catapaulted. Can you expect less from a blood traitor? And that quote as I said, shows Cressen counseling Stannis to eat the dead men but we don't see his reaction to such an idea (which I assume would be shock and disgust). Also logically, if Stannis was ever going to resort to cannabilism, he would have done that before he started eating rats

Gawen just died in his cell of starvation I assume. The text isn't implying anything special

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

I disagree w/ the OP. The Crofter's Village is a microcosm of the Realm under Stannis: a bleak and terrible place.

Obviously Stannis considered cannibalism otherwise Ser Wylde would have been thrown over the walls of Storm's End instead he died in the dungeon:

Yet he never agrees. Don't you think he would have eaten dead before eating rats and boot leather.

"Ned found it hard to imagine what could frighten Stannis Baratheon, who had once held Storm's End through a year of siege, surviving on rats & boot leather while the Lords Tyrell & Redwyne sat outside with their hosts, banqueting in sight of his walls." AGoT Chapter 58

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

Oh I see, Renly was lying :lmao:This idea is completely baseless, nice try. His reaction was to listen to Maester Cressen's advice and put Ser Wylde in the dungeon instead of wasting good meat. Logic doesn't lead most people to cannibalism before they've exhausted other food stuffs - cannibalism in such a context is a last resort.

Instead of double posting eta:

“Yields?” Lord Rowan laughed. “When Mace Tyrell laid siege to Storm’s End, Stannis ate rats rather than open his gates.”

“Well I remember.” Renly lifted his chin to allow Brienne to fasten his gorget in place. “Near the end, Ser Gawen Wylde and three of his knights tried to steal out a postern gate to surrender.Stannis caught them and ordered them flung from the walls with catapults. I can still see Gawen’s face as they strapped him down. He had been our master-at-arms.”

Lord Rowan appeared puzzled. “No men were hurled from the walls. I would surely remember that.”

“Maester Cressen told Stannis that we might be forced to eat our dead, and there was no gain in flinging away good meat.” Renly pushed back his hair. Brienne bound it with a velvet tie and pulled a padded cap down over his ears, to cushion the weight of his helm. “Thanks to the Onion Knight we were never reduced to dining on corpses, but it was a close thing. Too close for Ser Gawen, who died in his cell.”

Renly clearly states that Stannis was going to fling Ser Wylde over the wall. Wylde was being strapped down to the trebuchet, but Maester Cressen suggested saving him for food, and Stannis changed his mind and sent him to the dungeon, where he died. Try reading the books without the StanStan glasses on, it's really quite interesting.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Oh I see, Renly was lying.

You act as if Renly never lied. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

Renly laying in other instances doesn't have any bearing on this specific example. StanStan textual analysis is both baffling and laughable. Do you have any explanation for why GRRM would include this story only for it to be a lie?

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Renly laying in other instances doesn't have any bearing on this specific example. StanStan textual analysis is both baffling and laughable.

Yeah sure. :rolleyes: