R+L=D and B+A=J 2nd round

[Nero Martell]

You made up the last words.

Well I call it assumption... And as long as we can fill this Wohle Forum with assumptions, I did. Not expect that to be forbidden... Nevertheless: Sorry! Won't happen again.

[PirateVergo]

As explained, Ned is simply passing Jon off as younger. Passing a 15 month old as a year old or a year old as a nine month old is certainly possible.

You're not making any sense, Ned can't lie on Jon's age, there is a big difference between a new born and a 3 months old baby, when Catelyn came to Winterfell her son was supposed to be older than Jon, if Jon was Brandon's son he would at least 3 months older (and that's assumming Brandon had sex with Ashara right before he died which is highly unlikely).

R+L=J is confirmed since D&D said they guessed Jon's mother right.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

You're not making any sense, Ned can't lie on Jon's age, there is a big difference between a new born and a 3 months old baby, when Catelyn came to Winterfell her son was supposed to be older than Jon, if Jon was Brandon's son he would at least 3 months older (and that's assumming Brandon had sex with Ashara right before he died which is highly unlikely).

R+L=J is confirmed since D&D said they guessed Jon's mother right.

We have no idea how old Jon and Robb were when Ned returns to Cat. The closest clue we get is that Robb was an "infant."

So, passing off a 1 year old as a 9 month old or a 15 month old as a 1 year old is certainly possible.

[sj4iy]

nm

[JonSnow4President]

We have no idea how old Jon and Robb were when Ned returns to Cat. The closest clue we get is that Robb was an "infant."

So, passing off a 1 year old as a 9 month old or a 15 month old as a 1 year old is certainly possible.

Catelyn and Ned were apart for very close to a year (don't have books on me, at work. A Catelyn POV in GoT). Since Robb must have been conceived on the wedding night (or immediately after if Ned stayed a couple days), Robb is 3 months old (give or take 2 weeks for premature/late birth) at the family reunion.

[Ygrain]

Out of curiosity, hos is the show supposed to pull the big reveal of Jon being the son of Brandon and Ashara, if Ashara has never been mentioned so far?

[nastydream]

R+L=J is confirmed since D&D said they guessed Jon's mother right.

:dunno: um what?

i do believe in R+L=J but that made like 0 sense

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Catelyn and Ned were apart for very close to a year (don't have books on me, at work. A Catelyn POV in GoT). Since Robb must have been conceived on the wedding night (or immediately after if Ned stayed a couple days), Robb is 3 months old (give or take 2 weeks for premature/late birth) at the family reunion.

I don't think we have anything on how long Ned was away other than Robb being an "infant" when Ned came back.

Ned stayed with Cat 2 weeks.

We have nothing on Robb being 3 months old at the family reunion. We have no idea how old they were except that Robb was an infant.

[JonSnow4President]

:dunno: um what?

i do believe in R+L=J but that made like 0 sense

In my best translation attempt, I'd say that since they were able to tell it after GoT. The only foreshadowed option is R+L=J (because apparently we can disregard Wylla, even though testing a one word mention would be a good way of making sure they had paid attention). Just my guess how that played out in his head, but that's more just another piece of evidence towards R+L=J rather than confirmation.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Out of curiosity, hos is the show supposed to pull the big reveal of Jon being the son of Brandon and Ashara, if Ashara has never been mentioned so far?

That does worry me, but then again, Lyanna is mentioned once.

[sj4iy]

I don't think we have anything on how long Ned was away other than Robb being an "infant" when Ned came back.

Ned stayed with Cat 2 weeks.

We have nothing on Robb being 3 months old at the family reunion. We have no idea how old they were except that Robb was an infant.

Au contraire, we do:

It came as no surprise to her, in the first year of her marriage, to learn that Ned had fathered a child on some girl chance met on campaign. He had a man’s needs, after all, and they had spent that year apart, Ned off at war in the south while she remained safe in her father’s castle at Riverrun. Her thoughts were more of Robb, the infant at her breast, than of the husband she scarcely knew. He was welcome to whatever solace he might find between battles. And if his seed quickened, she expected he would see to the child’s needs.

There it is. She learned about Jon in the first year of her marriage. She had Robb already, too, and infant at her breast. Robb could not have been more than 3 months old if it were within the first year of her marriage and if they had spent that year apart.

[JonSnow4President]

I don't think we have anything on how long Ned was away other than Robb being an "infant" when Ned came back.

Ned stayed with Cat 2 weeks.

We have nothing on Robb being 3 months old at the family reunion. We have no idea how old they were except that Robb was an infant.

I've quoted the line I'm thinking of before. It's a relatively early Catelyn chapter in GoT. I'm 100% sure it's there that they were apart about a year (at work, book at home). So since we have another +2 weeks there, we know Robb was 2.5-4 months old at the reunion (+/- 2 weeks for term variability, and another possible +2 weeks for time spent with Catelyn)

Edit: ^^^^^^^^^ Thanks

[sj4iy]

I've quoted the line I'm thinking of before. It's a relatively early Catelyn chapter in GoT. I'm 100% sure it's there that they were apart about a year (at work, book at home). So since we have another +2 weeks there, we know Robb was 2.5-4 months old at the reunion (+/- 2 weeks for term variability, and another possible +2 weeks for time spent with Catelyn)

Edit: ^^^^^^^^^ Thanks

NP :)

[Ygrain]

That does worry me, but then again, Lyanna is mentioned once.

She is not mentioned, and more than once. There are both scenes in the crypts with her statue - the Ned-Robert interaction and Bran telling Osha about her, and you also have that made-up scene between Robert and Cersei, and that's just from the top of my head after watching the show but once. Also, you have Oberyn mentioning Rhaegar leaving Elia for another woman, which means Lyanna, even if her name is not mentioned.

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

That does worry me, but then again, Lyanna is mentioned once.

Oberyn,Bran and Robert mention her while the TV viewers dont know a single thing about Ashara but the majority know Lyanna.

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

What worries me about Robbin s theory is that we could at least have some foreshodowing about the whole B+L=J but we dont,the TV watchers dont know a single thing about them and yet they know about Lyanna and Rhaegar.

Lyanna makes Ned to PROMISE her something.

In the show Ned PROMISES Jon that they will talk about his mother and he gets really emotional,i dont think he would get so emotional about a woman he met once.

Beautiful and noble Rhaegar Targaryen left Elia for another woman.=another Lyanna reference.

The winter roses that Daario gives to Daenerys symbolise Jon.

Mance s blood is no more royal than my own.

Tormund and Jon s conversation.

She must have been a rare wrench to make Lord Eddard forget about his honour=She was but not the kind you think she is.

I dont know if forgot something but we had 4 seasons and if Brandon was Jon s dad,The show watchers would get some info for him but they dont meaning he is not important.Preston raised some wonderful questions and i m sure we will get answers in TWOW.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Au contraire, we do:

It came as no surprise to her, in the first year of her marriage, to learn that Ned had fathered a child on some girl chance met on campaign. He had a man’s needs, after all, and they had spent that year apart, Ned off at war in the south while she remained safe in her father’s castle at Riverrun. Her thoughts were more of Robb, the infant at her breast, than of the husband she scarcely knew. He was welcome to whatever solace he might find between battles. And if his seed quickened, she expected he would see to the child’s needs.

There it is. She learned about Jon in the first year of her marriage. She had Robb already, too, and infant at her breast. Robb could not have been more than 3 months old if it were within the first year of her marriage.

Well, hold on, Cat learns that Ned fathered a child in the first year of their marriage. Is she "learning" in the first year or is he "fathering" in the first year or is it both? It's a bit weird as it says they "had spent that year apart" (meaning the year is complete), but it is "in the first year" (meaning the year is not yet complete). Rounding must be happening in some direction.

According to B+A=J/R+L=D, Ned leaves Cat in the 3rd month of the war. Jon is born in the 9th month of the war. Ned gets to the Tower to find Dany in the 17th month (8 months after Jon because of the SSM) and then heads to Starfall where he can send a raven.

Now, obviously, you'd like the strict definition with both learning and fathering being in that first year of marriage. If that is the case, Cat would learn about the other baby in the 14th month of their marriage rather than the 12th. So, 2 months over, but in the realm of rounding when talking about "a year."

[JonSnow4President]

Well, hold on, Cat learns that Ned fathered a child in the first year of their marriage. Is she "learning" in the first year or is he "fathering" in the first year or is it both? It's a bit weird as it says they "had spent that year apart" (meaning the year is complete), but it is "in the first year" (meaning the year is not yet complete). Rounding must be happening in some direction.

According to B+A=J/R+L=D, Ned leaves Cat in the 3rd month of the war. Jon is born in the 9th month of the war. Ned gets to the Tower to find Dany in the 17th month (8 months after Jon because of the SSM) and then heads to Starfall where he can send a raven.

Now, obviously, you'd like the strict definition with both learning and fathering being in that first year of marriage. If that is the case, Cat would learn about the other baby in the 14th month of their marriage rather than the 12th. So, 2 months over, but in the realm of rounding when talking about "a year."

She clearly learned about it in her first year from that first sentence. "That year" refers to the first year of her marriage, but looked upon from current time period Catelyn. It's a simple case of different tenses referring to the same object. There isn't any discrepancy....

So, based on your B+A.... math, Dany is at best 7 months younger than Robb, if not younger. Comparing a 7 month old child to a newborn is clear as day. Comparing a year old child to a 5 month old child is clear as day. Not really sure how this is supposed to work?

[A Bastard Snow]

Again the biggest point against this besides (timeline/death/distance) is there is no need for it to be a secret......Why on earth would Ned hide that Brandon had a child when Ned says that he never wanted to be Lord of Winterfell.Ned is not the type of person to steal from his dead brothers child.

Also how does Dany time travel?Explain to me how Dany went back in time and managed to get to Dragonstone while also being at the ToJ.

[sj4iy]

Well, hold on, Cat learns that Ned fathered a child in the first year of their marriage. Is she "learning" in the first year or is he "fathering" in the first year or is it both? It's a bit weird as it says they "had spent that year apart" (meaning the year is complete), but it is "in the first year" (meaning the year is not yet complete). Rounding must be happening in some direction.

According to B+A=J/R+L=D, Ned leaves Cat in the 3rd month of the war. Jon is born in the 9th month of the war. Ned gets to the Tower to find Dany in the 17th month (8 months after Jon because of the SSM) and then heads to Starfall where he can send a raven.

Now, obviously, you'd like the strict definition with both learning and fathering being in that first year of marriage. If that is the case, Cat would learn about the other baby in the 14th month of their marriage rather than the 12th. So, 2 months over, but in the realm of rounding when talking about "a year."

You're grasping at straws here. The text CLEARLY states that they were apart for no longer than a year. They spent a year apart. You're trying to move the goalposts by inferring something like "oh, well, they could have rounded it". No, the text says twice that they "Spent a year apart" in the same paragraph.

The text says that Dany is born 8-9 months after the sack of KL, and Martin says that Jon is born 8-9 months before she is. That means he was born around the time of the sack of KL. Ned gets married, leaves Cat right afterwards, and they spend a year apart. Cat says that she got pregnant with Robb on the first try- which would have been when they consummated their marriage.

“His heir failed him.” Robb ran a hand over the rough weathered stone. “I had hoped to leave Jeyne with child... we tried often enough, but I’m not certain...”

“It does not always happen the first time.” Though it did with you. “Nor even the hundredth. You are very young.”

And since we know from the text that the rebellion 'raged on for close to a year' (Ned, AGoT 12), and that Ned had gone to the ToJ and Starfell before returning to Winterfell with Jon, that there's no way that Ned and Catelyn could have been married at the beginning of the war and only spent a year apart because then there's no time for Ned to go to the ToJ and Starfell before returning home. Even if there are some problems in the timeline, there still HAS to be time for Ned to get to one place and another. Ned and Catelyn MUST have married at least a couple of months after the war began (as also evidenced by everything that happened after Brandon and his father died by Aerys' hand in KL). They could not have been married on the same day that Catelyn and Brandon were to be married because then Ned wouldn't have time to go to KL or SF before coming back. It also means that if Robb was about 2-3 months old at the time of Ned's return to Winterfell, then so was Jon because the sack of KL would have had to have taken place 2-3 months before he came home...and we know from the author himself that Jon was born around the time of the Sack of King's Landing.

Your timeline doesn't work, and Jon and Robb are clearly about the same age. Like the book states.