Stannis Iron Baratheon Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Does anyone else realize the potential alliance between Daenerys and Bravos? Both despise slavery and want a change of regime in Westeros. Dany has the army and dragons to take the kingdoms while bravos has the ships and gold to transport and fund the conquest. The Targaryens had no known history of refusing payment to the iron bank, and as soon as they are deposed, money starts being lent with little return. If they help her then they have a strong alliance with the seven kingdoms and don't have to worry about her burning their fleet to ash. Dany would have the navy she lacks and enough coin to buy the remaning sellsword companies that haven't already joined her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbor Golden Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 except they hate dragons and the faceless men may already working at her downfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickrs Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 The Iron Bank already has a deal with Stannis, so the finantial part is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Iron Baratheon Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 except they hate dragons and the faceless men may already working at her downfall First, where is it written that they hate dragons? They hated the slavers of valyria because they where their former slaves, dany is destroying slavery all together, something that they always have wanted. And even if (and one big f***ing if) the faceless men are working towards her downfall, they are not Bravos and do not make the decisions of the city. The Iron Bank already has a deal with Stannis, so the finantial part is out. So? They have plenty gold where that came from, do you think they would back only one horse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyrinLannister Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 First, where is it written that they hate dragons? They hated the slavers of valyria because they where their former slaves, dany is destroying slavery all together, something that they always have wanted. And even if (and one big f***ing if) the faceless men are working towards her downfall, they are not Bravos and do not make the decisions of the city. So? They have plenty gold where that came from, do you think they would back only one horse? In DWD, Jon chapter, he makes a joke about wishing they had a dragon at the wall and the Bravosi banker does not take it well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Dany might be able to form an alliance with Braavos. The operative word here being "might". If Dany snubs the IB and shows up with a Dothraki horde on Braavos' border, threatening its independence, I could see Braavos turning against her. It all depends on how Dany decides to approach Braavos. And let's face it, Dany isn't exactly a savvy or an astute politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Does anyone else realize the potential alliance between Daenerys and Bravos? Both despise slavery and want a change of regime in Westeros. Dany has the army and dragons to take the kingdoms while bravos has the ships and gold to transport and fund the conquest. The Targaryens had no known history of refusing payment to the iron bank, and as soon as they are deposed, money starts being lent with little return. If they help her then they have a strong alliance with the seven kingdoms and don't have to worry about her burning their fleet to ash. Dany would have the navy she lacks and enough coin to buy the remaning sellsword companies that haven't already joined her. Yes, Braavos, the only Free City to despise the Valyrians so much that they hid in a lagoon, the same people who have a vested interested in ensuring that their loans are repaid (I don't see Dany offering to pay the "Usurper's" debts), are going to help Dany... The person who brought dragons back into the world. The things they hate most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I always thought that after the Targs left that payments continued to be made to the IB, it's just that they also accrued a ton of debt. In theory this is good for the IB up to a certain point, that's partly how they make their money is the interest on the loans. The problem occurred when eventually the latest person in power refused to make payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickrs Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 So? They have plenty gold where that came from, do you think they would back only one horse? Backing Dany AND Stannis means that half of the investment is fated to doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bittersteel Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Backing Dany AND Stannis means that half of the investment is fated to doom. I'm sure any possible investment would be nothing compared to the debt they're owed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickrs Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I'm sure any possible investment would be nothing compared to the debt they're owed. I meant this, supporting both sides means that the one loan will go to waste. Unless the winner compromises to pay the loser's debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I meant this, supporting both sides means that the one loan will go to waste. Unless the winner compromises to pay the loser's debt. Banks do similar things all the time here on earth in the form of hedging using derivatives, currency swaps, etc. If they aren't sure enough who is going to win and the amounts they think are at risk in their loans to Stannis and Dany are less than what they think they won't get back from the IT, it could be beneficial to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 When Tycho mentions Dany, he doesn't talk about her anti-slavery crusade, but her dragons. He is unnerved by her dragons. The Braavosi have also already thrown in with Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 At face value it seems like it could be a decent partnership. Except for four things. 1. They've already thrown in with Stannis. 2. Dany has already shown that she can't be trusted to carry out a business transaction. Regardless of how Braavos feels about slavery, what happened in Astapor could indicate to them that she'll just burn the city down rather than repay her loan. 3. Dany sends mixed signals. She starts off as the wife of a khal who goes along with his slaving, then decides to turn to abolition (which coincides with her getting a free army), but then she gets to Meereen and marries a slaver, allows Yunkai to operate a slave market outside and has people working without compensation. She profits from the slave trade herself by allowing Meereenese to sell themselves. She also sows chaos and instability wherever she goes, which is economic poison and something any halfway intelligent banker would want to avoid. 4. They don't fuck around with dragons. And even if Dany herself is sufficiently anti-slavery for the Braavosi, her dragons could outlive her by decades if not a hundred years or more. What guarantee do the Braavsoi have that whoever ends up with the dragons when Dany dies won't do a U turn and decide to use the dragons to enforce slavery or even create a new Valyria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Iron Bank will help Dany only if they see that she is winning. And currently she isn't. She lost control over 2 dragons , her city is under siege and everyone thinks that Dany is dead.And she is few thousand miles from Westeros and BraavosAnd if I were sealord of Braavos I won't be very happy if thousands dothraki , ironborn raiders , Iron Fleet , slave soldiers , several sellsword companies of bad reputation and 3 not fully controled dragons aproach my city :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNinjaDC Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 The most of an alliance I could have seen was the Bravosi fleet sticking it to the Volantis fleet(old time rivals). However I believe that ship has sailed, quite literally, with the Volantis fleet already heading to Merreen. Right now, Bravosi are backing her enemy for the throne, and are literally killing to find out how to kill dragons. Yes, they do have shared interests in ending slavery, but this is ASOIAF. Natural allies being made enemies happens all the bloody time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creticus Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Backing Dany AND Stannis means that half of the investment is fated to doom. I don't necessarily believe that Braavos is going to team up with Daenerys, but this particular argument is unconvincing to me. What kind of bank doesn't hedge its investments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I don't necessarily believe that Braavos is going to team up with Daenerys, but this particular argument is unconvincing to me. What kind of bank doesn't hedge its investments? There's a difference between diversifying your stock portfolio and sinking money into both sides of two directly competing parties, in which only one can actually win (so not like Google and Apple where they compete but can both ultimately co-exist). Think of it this way: If it backs Stannis (I say Stannis because the bank has already backed him) and only Stannis and gives him the best chance of winning, hypothetically, that means he can get it done sooner while using just that one loan. It's also not out the money it'd lose backing a rival to Stannis. But if it backs both Stannis and someone else and gives them each the financial resources to carry a drawn-out campaign, that means it would take both parties longer to come out ahead, during which time they might need an addition to their original loans (so more money down the drain). And the bank would eventually eat its investment in the loser, which it wouldn't have lost if it hadn't invested in two parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodmane Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Bravos is not just the Iron Bank, other forces are at play in bravosi politics: the FM, the bravos themselves ("vox populi"), and the sealords. Even if it would be economically advantageous (what I doubt) the support of Bravos would not be granted to the living symbol of Valyria (a dragon-riding, vayirian looking sorceress-queen who reenacts the conquest of the Slaver-bay). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hos the Hostage Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Does anyone else realize the potential alliance between Daenerys and Bravos? Both despise slavery and want a change of regime in Westeros. Dany has the army and dragons to take the kingdoms while bravos has the ships and gold to transport and fund the conquest. The Targaryens had no known history of refusing payment to the iron bank, and as soon as they are deposed, money starts being lent with little return. If they help her then they have a strong alliance with the seven kingdoms and don't have to worry about her burning their fleet to ash. Dany would have the navy she lacks and enough coin to buy the remaning sellsword companies that haven't already joined her.I've considered this but it give no leads.Braavos fought wars to stop slavery, so Dany is their friend. In principle, if not in practice. But she is also the descendant of Valyrian dragonlords. So she is their enemy. There is also the possibility that FM somehow helped the extinction of dragons. And Jaqen-Pate is at citadel. But Euron is pals with FM and trying to marry Dany. Iron Bank has already thrown in with Stannis, but it is possible that they also support Aegon and/or Dany, just so that the Lannisters are replaced by someone, anyone, who will pay back their money. It's complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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