Would you be upset of Jon Snow was a Dayne instead of a Targaryen?

[Colton Casados-Medve]

Although I think R+L=J to be the most textually supported theory that currently exists for ASOIAF, I'm still a huge fan of Jon Snow being the product of a Stark + Ashara Dayne. Most likely Ned Stark but with a stretch possibly Brandon/Benjen. 

 

EDIT: I would like to add that Arthur Dayne + Lyanna Stark is also very appealing to me. 

 

With all the textual references to Jon and the Sword of the Morning constellation, the refusal of GRRM to reveal House Dayne's motto before as it contains spoilers, the mystery surrounding Arthur Dayne at TOJ as well as Ashara Dayne at the Tourney of Harrenhal... The Greatsword Dawn... The Vayrian features of the Daynes even though they may or may not be Valyrian... or some sort of Valyrian/First Men hybrid.... Dawn being forged from a falling star... all of it is very "Last Hero-y" to me. 

 

And we found out the show cast a young (13/14 year old) Ned Stark, presumably to highlight his relationship with Lyanna, but maybe to also show him meeting Ashara Dayne and falling in love with her before Catelyn was even part of the picture? 

 

I'll list some pros and cons of the Jon as a Dayne theory: 

 

Pros

 

• All of the Long Night/Sword of the Morning/Dawn/Starfall mysteries surrounding the house ties in well with Jon's role against the Others. He may become "The Dayne worthy of wielding Dawn." 
• A young Ned as a character would have a major mistake behind him... fathering Jon out of love even though he was supposed to assume his brother's role as Catelyn's husband. Its the one true smear on his character (yeah some people argue that he is too honorable but that's more of a logical analysis as to why he dies rather than something that he does that's actually wrong). 
• It makes Jon a true Stark which is kind of cool. I always considered him a Stark since he was raised as a Stark, and to me I've always been troubled by the idea that he is a Targaryen even though he has no "emotional" connection to that family. He's always wanted to be a true Stark, after all. 
• It removes his claim to the IT, which many aren't a fan of (I personally don't mind if he sits the IT or rules Westeros or not, I trust GRRM to write it either way). But, it does give him a claim to Winterfell, cemented by Robb's will. Bran perhaps will never rule, and Rickon is still too young. I see Arya not going the way of ruling, and I think Sansa is way more important in the Vale/Riverlands than in the North. 

Cons

• We'd have to rethink who Lyanna's child(ren) was/were if this is true, and that can be messy and fly in the face of evidence that points toward R+L=J.
• The nice symbolism/literary devices referring to Jon as ice and fire would be ruined. Granted the title can mean many things with enough analysis, as the themes of ice and fire are prominent throughout the books. 
• Some of the pros I listed can be viewed as cons by other people, such as Ned's unfaithful act and Jon not having a claim to the IT via being a Targ. 

What do you guys think? Would you be upset if this were true, indifferent, or happy? 

 

Personally, I support both R+L=J and N+A=J. I think they would both be fantastic reveals, and whichever one GRRM chooses would make me happy. 

[Scootaloo Stark]

I think there are much more clues for R+L. I'd prefer it and I would be a little disappointed if it's N+A instead. But mainly I would be surprised.

[ASOIAF_Ali]

Personally it makes no difference to me whether Jon is a Targaryen or a Dayne, in an ideal world he would just be Ned's ordinary bastard IMO.

[Varysfan]

Its maybe somewhat clichéd but I think it would be ridiculous if Jon wasn't Rhaegar's son, he is the hero of the story (I don't expect him to be alive come spring mind) a great character and surely the song is his!

[Pancakes1800]

The Waterstones letter revealed that Jon is not Ned's son which means if Jon is Ashara's kid then it has to be from Brandon, but the timeline(and logic) excludes that.  There is more evidence for R+L=J, than Jon wielding Dawn so trying to come up with a parentage theory for Jon just so he can wield Dawn probably isn't the best idea.  

[Colton Casados-Medve]

Its maybe somewhat clichéd but I think it would be ridiculous if Jon wasn't Rhaegar's son, he is the hero of the story (I don't expect him to be alive come spring mind) a great character and surely the song is his!

 

I've been wondering about that lately. When Dany sees the vision of Rhaegar and Elia holding a baby and saying that "his is the song of ice and fire" who are they referring to? That is also when he says there must be two others because the three heads thing yadda yadda. If Jon is the person referenced in that vision why is it Elia that is seen in the vision? 

[Probably Edd]

Nah, I'm sure Martin wouldn't upset me if that were the case. One way or another it could easily turn out interesting.

 

I really doubt Ned and Ashara as the parents, considering that Barristan said that Ashara was "dishonored" by "a" Stark. He knew Ned, and Ned is not one to act dishonorably. If anything it would be Brandon (or Benjen for some reason).

 

Anyway I don't believe either N + A or R + L.

[Pancakes1800]

 

I've been wondering about that lately. When Dany sees the vision of Rhaegar and Elia holding a baby and saying that "his is the song of ice and fire" who are they referring to? That is also when he says there must be two others because the three heads thing yadda yadda. If Jon is the person referenced in that vision why is it Elia that is seen in the vision? 

That is baby Aegon not Jon, Jon was born after Rhaegar died.  Rhaegar thought his three kids would be the Three Heads of the Dragon, but he only had 2 kids and Elia couldn't give him anymore children.  Rhaegar interpreted the prophecy wrong.  

[Pancakes1800]

Nah, I'm sure Martin wouldn't upset me if that were the case. One way or another it could easily turn out interesting.

 

I really doubt Ned and Ashara as the parents, considering that Barristan said that Ashara was "dishonored" by "a" Stark. He knew Ned, and Ned is not one to act dishonorably. If anything it would be Brandon (or Benjen for some reason).

 

Anyway I don't believe either N + A or R + L.

Ser Barristan is an unreliable narrator when to comes to the whole Ashara and the Tourney of Harrenhal thing.  I don't think Ser Barristan is as honorable as some people think he is and his thoughts on the Tourney are proof of that.  

[Colton Casados-Medve]

The Waterstones letter revealed that Jon is not Ned's son which means if Jon is Ashara's kid then it has to be from Brandon, but the timeline(and logic) excludes that.  There is more evidence for R+L=J, than Jon wielding Dawn so trying to come up with a parentage theory for Jon just so he can wield Dawn probably isn't the best idea.  

 

Wait how did that letter disprove Ned as his father? All it says is that Jon's true parentage will eventually be revealed. There is a paragraph that is blacked out later on so we don't know what was written in that. 

[Pancakes1800]

 

Wait how did that letter disprove Ned as his father? All it says is that Jon's true parentage will eventually be revealed. There is a paragraph that is blacked out later on so we don't know what was written in that. 

"Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book."

Jon and Arya's passion for eachother continues to torment them because they believe that they are half-siblings, but this torment ends when Jon's parentage is revealed.  This would suggest that they are not siblings and instead are cousins.  Their torment wouldn't end if Jon's parents are Ned and Ashara as they are still half-siblings, but if they are cousins it makes it somewhat okay in their eyes.  

[Good Guy Garlan]

No, I'd like it more if he was a Dayne.

It'd be like, "Jon, the good news is that your mom was not a commoner"

"Yay!"

"The bad news is that you're still a bastard"

"..."

"And the badder news is that you're not the prophesied-hidden prince-savior of humanity"

"Fuck"

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

"Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book."

Jon and Arya's passion for eachother continues to torment them because they believe that they are half-siblings, but this torment ends when Jon's parentage is revealed.  This would suggest that they are not siblings and instead are cousins.  Their torment wouldn't end if Jon's parents are Ned and Ashara as they are still half-siblings, but if they are cousins it makes it somewhat okay in their eyes.  

 

And... this would only matter if Jon and Arya are going to get together in this series.

 

Which they're not.  :rolleyes:

 

*cursing the publication of the contents of the Waterstones letter for the thousandth time*

[matchesmcfly]

he already has dayne blood through rhaegar. he doesn't need to be ashara's kid.

 

i would have loved it if lemore was ashara and for aegon to be ned's kid but that isn't going to happen. Jon being a dayne doesn't fit with tptwp either, and for all intents and purposes, Jon was Promised.

[Colton Casados-Medve]

"Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book."

Jon and Arya's passion for eachother continues to torment them because they believe that they are half-siblings, but this torment ends when Jon's parentage is revealed.  This would suggest that they are not siblings and instead are cousins.  Their torment wouldn't end if Jon's parents are Ned and Ashara as they are still half-siblings, but if they are cousins it makes it somewhat okay in their eyes.  

 

I'll admit this does sort of indicate Ned not being the father. However so much of the plot has already changed. There is no Jon/Arya/Tyrion love triangle anymore (thank the Old Gods and the New). 

 

In fact the entire outline differs from everything that's happened, minus character deaths (circumstances are still way different), and vaguely what Dany has been up to. 

 

The only thing I really trust is the five characters he intended to survive until the end, even though that may be tossed out now as well, for story purposes.

[OldGimletEye]

Personally it makes no difference to me whether Jon is a Targaryen or a Dayne, in an ideal world he would just be Ned's ordinary bastard IMO.

Agree, I could care less if Jon was a Targaryen or a Dayne or whether one of his parents came from Flea Bottom.

 

That said, I do believe his father is Rhaegar because the evidence seems so strongly in favor of it.

[Pancakes1800]

 

I'll admit this does sort of indicate Ned not being the father. However so much of the plot has already changed. There is no Jon/Arya/Tyrion love triangle anymore (thank the Old Gods and the New). 

 

In fact the entire outline differs from everything that's happened, minus character deaths (circumstances are still way different), and vaguely what Dany has been up to. 

 

The only thing I really trust is the five characters he intended to survive until the end, even though that may be tossed out now as well, for story purposes.

GRRM isn't going to change the parentage of one of his main characters, that's something that was decided when GRRM created the character as it's central to that character.  

 

 

And... this would only matter if Jon and Arya are going to get together in this series.

 

Which they're not.  :rolleyes:

 

*cursing the publication of the contents of the Waterstones letter for the thousandth time*

So Jon's parentage is dependent on his relationship with Arya? So one day GRRM thought to himself "well since Jon and Arya aren't going to be romantically involved so I'm going to change Jon's parentage?"

[BrandonStark's bastard]

I'd be thrilled if Jon was a Dayne.

.

I think  Rhaegar is a over glorified moron. And if Lyanna went willingly, a hypocrite and homewrecker.

 

I would be glad my favorite character is not their child. But we can't have everything we want can we?

[BrandonStark's bastard]

double

[The Wolves]

No, I'd like it more if he was a Dayne.

It'd be like, "Jon, the good news is that your mom was not a commoner"

"Yay!"

"The bad news is that you're still a bastard"

"..."

"And the badder news is that you're not the prophesied-hidden prince-savior of humanity"

"Fuck"

I think at this point that by the 5th book Jon has made peace with being a bastard, it took a minute but he's okay with that.

Nor do I think Jon wants to be a prophesied savior.

I like the idea of Lyanna and Rhaegar being Jon's parents but growth wise I think Jon will regress to AGOT Jon with his bastard insecurities and identity issues he had come to make peace with when he finds out R+L=J.