Drogonthedread Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 You can be as annoyed and flustered as you want. But that isn't going to convince me about anything. I acknowledge the possibility that he might be gone, after all I m not GRRM I don't know how the story ends. and my posts have reflected that. the only person taking a real definitive stance about anything as if he/she knows the entirety of the story is . . . You!I m sure not going to stop speculating about something that interests me just cause it annoys someone. I am not against you speculating or anything .. Everyone wants more from their favorite character..Like I said in the first page I would love to see dillane again but then again I also would have like Ned Ribb and cat lived longer. iam just against speculations that are totally out of character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 I don't get it you just quoted me but didn't say anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yeah sorry for that ...This new design is too slow in mobile And posting also have a lot of issues. I prefer the old one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Like I said in the first page I would love to see dillane again but then again I also would have like Ned Ribb and cat lived longer. iam just against speculations that are totally out of characterOut of character with the books, yes, but the show, no.In the books either stannis wins at winterfell and builds from there or he dies. He certainly will not be defeated in the same manner as the show and if confronted by brienne, unlike the show he would have fought to the end, either killing her or dying himself. In the show though, since so much has been out of character already, its not a radical idea to say things would be out of character again. In fact as leaks are coming out its impossible for certain story's to be in character at this point. Also if you think something is out of character doesn't necessarily mean its out of character. You aren't the authority on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 GRRM also thanked Shae's actress, but we know from leaks that she plays a role next season, whether flashback or not. So I wouldn't put much stock in who GRRM thanked. In the books I could totally see Brienne not killing Stannis. She is very clearly starting to let go of her dogmatic feelings partly because of her relationship with Jaime. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if she is given a chance to confront stannis down the line (not like the show, but later) but realizes that her quest for revenge is pointless. Its a different matter in the show, since D&D can and have made her act out of character as much as they want.What happened with Shae doesn't man it will happen with Stannis. I mean they like Sibel really much and given it has something to do with Tyrion one of the most important characters. I think you're holding for something that is very unlikely to happen, but like George said some characters that died in season 5 are still alive in the books. They probably killed him earlier and give part of his arch to Jon. That might be the case here. Brienne swore a vow that she will avenge Renly and choose this over the one to Cat. It would be bad if she screwed up vow to Cat and then let Stannis live. Basically he has nothing left in the show and even as much as I love Stephane Dillane's acting...I just see no point of him becoming some puppet or servant. They did already enough crimes on his character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 What happened with Shae doesn't man it will happen with Stannis. I mean they like Sibel really much and given it has something to do with Tyrion one of the most important characters. I think you're holding for something that is very unlikely to happen, but like George said some characters that died in season 5 are still alive in the books. They probably killed him earlier and give part of his arch to Jon. That might be the case here. Brienne swore a vow that she will avenge Renly and choose this over the one to Cat. It would be bad if she screwed up vow to Cat and then let Stannis live. Basically he has nothing left in the show and even as much as I love Stephane Dillane's acting...I just see no point of him becoming some puppet or servant. They did already enough crimes on his character.I didn't say anything about stannis being a puppet! when I said he would join Jon snow I didn't mean he would swear fealty to him! Stannis would still press his claim to the throne. I just meant that stannis would join his his military force with Jon to fight the boltons as allies, but he d still want Jon to bend the knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I didn't say anything about stannis being a puppet! when I said he would join Jon snow I didn't mean he would swear fealty to him! Stannis would still press his claim to the throne. I just meant that stannis would join his his military force with Jon to fight the boltons as allies, but he d still want Jon to bend the knee. Why? Clutching at straws dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Why? Clutching at straws dude.lol, no that's what you do in a lot of our arguments. I have always held the possibility that stannis might be dead on the show, just cause I think its more likely that he's alive doesn't mean I think its impossible that he's dead. ps. I have yet to get a response from you on the other thread where we were discussing stannis' ego. did you not come up with a good response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 lol, no that's what you do in a lot of our arguments. I have always held the possibility that stannis might be dead on the show, just cause I think its more likely that he's alive doesn't mean I think its impossible that he's dead. ps. I have yet to get a response from you on the other thread where we were discussing stannis' ego. did you not come up with a good response? How is Stannis being alive anything other than an extreme longshot? Its wishful thinking, and makes almost no sense for him to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 How is Stannis being alive anything other than an extreme longshot? Its wishful thinking, and makes almost no sense for him to come back. Long shot or not, we will know when the next season airs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfreak Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 They've butchered his character enough already. Let him rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 They've butchered his character enough already. Let him rest.Stannis fans have butchered his character way worse than D&D ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 Stannis fans have butchered his character way worse than D&D ever did.This doesn't even make sense. Stannis fan's aren't making an adaptation of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 This doesn't even make sense. Stannis fan's aren't making an adaptation of the story.Stannis in the show is D&D's interpretation of the character from the books. Stannis fans have also given their interpretations, and from what I've seen, most of them are vastly inferior to the show's, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShieraSeastar7 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 i'm pretty sure my reaction would be the world's most exaggerated eye roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 My reaction will be how they kept Stephen Dillane's filming so well hidden in comparison to Kit's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Stannis in the show is D&D's interpretation of the character from the books. Stannis fans have also given their interpretations, and from what I've seen, most of them are vastly inferior to the show's, imo.Stannis fans interpretation of Stannis as some sort of loving Gandhi like superhero doesn't seem especially accurate either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 Stannis fans interpretation of Stannis as some sort of loving Gandhi like superhero doesn't seem especially accurate either!Strawman alert.As far as I remember most stannis fans (including myself), regard stannis as a grey character. He might be a lighter shade of grey but grey nonetheless. Stannis has done some questionable actions no doubt about that, but he has done those deeds in contexts where its not so easy to judge him for it. For instance stannis indirectly killing Renly, might seem like good old fashion fratricide (obviously bad) on the surface, but taken in the context of stannis' situation at the time, its difficult to condemn him in a black and white way. Yes killing your brother (even indirectly) is a terrible act, but its not so clear in a situation where the brother declared war on you and you may very well be killed if you don't kill your brother first. Its easy to condemn fratricide when we are not in a difficult lose-lose situation like stannis is. What a lot of non stannis fans miss with stannis is the appreciation for a morally complex character whose decision are extremely difficult to judge. If you prefer your characters with less moral ambiguity then I can see why you might not like stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Strawman alert.As far as I remember most stannis fans (including myself), regard stannis as a grey character. He might be a lighter shade of grey but grey nonetheless. Stannis has done some questionable actions no doubt about that, but he has done those deeds in contexts where its not so easy to judge him for it. For instance stannis indirectly killing Renly, might seem like good old fashion fratricide (obviously bad) on the surface, but taken in the context of stannis' situation at the time, its difficult to condemn him in a black and white way. Yes killing your brother (even indirectly) is a terrible act, but its not so clear in a situation where the brother declared war on you and you may very well be killed if you don't kill your brother first. Its easy to condemn fratricide when we are not in a difficult lose-lose situation like stannis is. What a lot of non stannis fans miss with stannis is the appreciation for a morally complex character whose decision are extremely difficult to judge. If you prefer your characters with less moral ambiguity then I can see why you might not like stannis. I agree with you entirely. Stannis is an incredibly grey character, thats in fact what I've been trying to get at. My opinion that he acts out of his own ego, doesn't preclude him from doing good things, and it doesn't mean hes evil either. Hes somewhere in between. My problem comes with holding Stannis up as a heroic character, it seems many Stannis fans are under the impression he was the guy you were supposed to be rooting for, who's going to be saving Westeros. That for me is where the black and white thinking exists. He's not that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 I agree with you entirely. Stannis is an incredibly grey character, thats in fact what I've been trying to get at. My opinion that he acts out of his own ego, doesn't preclude him from doing good things, and it doesn't mean hes evil either. Hes somewhere in between. My problem comes with holding Stannis up as a heroic character, it seems many Stannis fans are under the impression he was the guy you were supposed to be rooting for, who's going to be saving Westeros. That for me is where the black and white thinking exists. He's not that guy. Why not? I prefer rooting for stannis the guy who deals with more morally ambiguous situations than some kid whose been taught by his father to be "honorable" and is rarely placed in a lose-lose situation like stannis to make hard choices. Also stannis' positive qualities make him great for brining peace back to westeros. He's the guy who will make the tough hard decisions others would shy away from. Stannis won't be the guy who inspires big triumphant parades for his victories, but he certain can be the guy who makes the hard choices which will ultimately save lives. GRRM has said many that super morally upright characters don't necessarily translate into good rulers. A good ruler needs to make good harsh assessments that occasionally can lead to some people getting hurt. If you think the story will end with a white knight killing the baddies and everyone cheering hiim/her on, you might be disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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