Blackfish

[aryagonnakill#2]

Warden is only a military title, the Warden leads armies, but that doesn't make him a liege lord.  The Vale is the example here, Robert Aryn was Lord of the Vale but Robert didn't name him warden.  Had he named Jaime warden Jaime would have lead the Vales army in the event of a war, but Robert Aryn would still be Lord of the Vale, and the 1 people would listen to.

[Julia H.]

9 hours ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Frankly Blackfish not surrendering the castle may have the only thing keeping Edmure alive , the moment the castle is surrendered what do the Freys need Edmure for ? As long as he's alive he's a threat to the Freys power in the Riverlands. 

This.

The Freys did not kill Edmure because if they had, they would have lost the most important hostage they had that they could use to blackmail the Blackfish. The problem was the Blackfish knew that, too, or at least he knew that the Freys would have no reason to keep Edmure alive once he had surrendered the castle and somehow he didn't think the word of the Freys as the only guarantee would be worth much (I wonder why).

The only solution was what Jaime did: He made Edmure give up the castle as the Tully overlord. That gave Edmure a chance to save some people, and in that situation even the word of the Kingslayer was worth much more in Riverrun than any promise a Frey would make. 

It's a big leap from the idea "the Blackfish didn't give up a castle he was in charge of defending (a very serious duty) for maybe a 1% (or less) chance of saving his nephew who had left him in charge of said castle and never told him to give it up" to "the Blackfish wouldn't do anything to save the nephew whose castle he had bravely defended in any circumstances". Wow.

[Dolorous22]

It is clear that Edmure was the only currency the Freys had to barter with. They're the wrong people to be making deals though, Jaime's intervention is the only reason the situation was resolved without a massacre. Jaime had a plan C and on the face of things - it worked. The Blackfish's stance on negotiating with the Freys reminds me of our modern notion of negotiating with terrorists. Once an enemy has proven themselves callous and without honor why on Planetos would you consider their terms at all? The Freys have a recent history of either not showing up or arriving far too late when summoned by RR. And their behavior as of late has been treacherous and cruel. I say, no Tully could trust a single word from Frey lips. 

Back to the OP, I honestly don't know where the Blackfish will be, I mean, where does he start? My favourite idea is that he hasn't gone anywhere. That he's still right under their noses. Reason being, is that winter is actually coming now, it's not just Stark words anymore it's an actual fact that it's going to get very difficult for anybody not safely tucked away inside a nice warm well provisioned castle. Overall, I think it's better to let Edmure and his escort bugger off out of the way for the time being. What's great is that they're heading West, so we can speculate that for the first time in the books we'll have Stark sympathist POV in the Westerlands.

Whenever the future of the Riverlands is in question I always wonder, will the massive wolf (literal) army factor in some more? 
They're a great weapon, anyone on horseback would all-of-a-sudden find themselves not on horse back, such is the nature of horses where wolves are concerned. And any man not clad in steel will find them to be a considerably more dangerous opponent given their numbers, ferocity and hunger. There's also the possibility that wolves may be capable of leaving behind only the bones of their enemies - so they're not likely to rise as white walkers. I know it's a long-shot, but the Direwolf Nymeria seems almost as dangerous as her Rhoynish namesake. We've seen Bran struggle to separate himself from summer, perhaps Nymeria has enough of Arya in her to despise the Freys above all others? Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. And the Frey's killed Rob, Grey Wind and Catelyn. So I imagine Frey blood tastes all the more sweeter to the her.

Again, winter is literally coming. We've seen in aDwD that you can cause all kinds of problems for a large keep simply by playing mind games and laying traps outside for unsuspecting occupiers. We've seen how an enemy with greater numbers can be whittled down with a few tricks and feints. So with that in mind - regardless of the wolves, I say that the Blackfish is either still inside RR, or very very close. 

[Blackfish Tully]

5 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Warden is only a military title, the Warden leads armies, but that doesn't make him a liege lord.  The Vale is the example here, Robert Aryn was Lord of the Vale but Robert didn't name him warden.  Had he named Jaime warden Jaime would have lead the Vales army in the event of a war, but Robert Aryn would still be Lord of the Vale, and the 1 people would listen to.

Blackfish was made Warden of the Southern Marches which means that he is control of everything south of Moat Calin. Edmure is still the Lord of the Riverlands and would make most decisions about thing in the Riverlands but for military matters (and surrendering a castle is a military matter) Blackfish is in charge. 

What sense would it make to make Blackfish Warden of the Southerm Marches but not give him the power over the Riverlands? It would be a stupid military decision. 

[Blackfish Tully]

9 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

It does not state that in the books.

 The people of Riverrun, like Stone Hedge, like Pinkmaiden, like Atranta, like Wayfarer's Rest etc. have a Lord who they obey regardless of what Brynden Tully says. That is why they all surrendered when their Lords told them to despite what the Blackfish may or may not want.

 

Frankly this is fanfiction , you have no idea what the people of Riverrun thought and why they surrendered , you keep saying this like you have any clue what happened in Riverrun. 

 

9 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

As for Brynden being made Warden of the Southern Marches:

•  You have absolutely no idea what he was and was not in command of, what authority he had. You are guessing, trying to make your hero seem far more important than he is.
• He was given that title by a dead man who is no longer King and his kingdom no longer exists
• Even in the Appendices the Blackfish's position as Castellan of Riverrun is seen as more important than his 'wardenship'. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Feast_for_Crows-Appendix#House_Stark

 

What do you think the title meant if not him being in control of everything south of the neck ? 

Robb had named an heir so his kingdom still existed , the Direwolf was still flying over Riverrun so clearly his kingdom still exists. 

9 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

No, they were from Edmure directly telling us that he surrendered the castle. That is pretty conclusive, now maybe in the future this will be discredited but all the evidence we have right now says that Edmure surrendered the castle.

 

Edmure was not telling it to "us" he was telling it to Jaimie his enemy , don't you think he may have been telling Jaimie what he wanted to hear .? Telling your enemy the truth is usually not a good idea. 

 

9 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

Nowhere in the books does it say that Brynden is Edmure's superior.

It's the only thing that makes sense . Robb has to put somebody in charge of his Southern Kingdom , Why would he give Blackfish such a title but not give him authority over Edmure . That would be massively stupid militarily. If Blackfish was not in charge of the Riverlands , then what would he be in charge of ? 

[Blackfish Tully]

6 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Warden is only a military title, the Warden leads armies, but that doesn't make him a liege lord.  The Vale is the example here, Robert Aryn was Lord of the Vale but Robert didn't name him warden.  Had he named Jaime warden Jaime would have lead the Vales army in the event of a war, but Robert Aryn would still be Lord of the Vale, and the 1 people would listen to.

"only a military title" is the only title that matters at this point . The Riverlands are at war and all military decisions would be made by the Warden . Surrendering the castle is a military decision so why would Edmure get to make it instead of the Warden? 

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, Dolorous22 said:

Whenever the future of the Riverlands is in question I always wonder, will the massive wolf (literal) army factor in some more? 
They're a great weapon, anyone on horseback would all-of-a-sudden find themselves not on horse back, such is the nature of horses where wolves are concerned. And any man not clad in steel will find them to be a considerably more dangerous opponent given their numbers, ferocity and hunger. There's also the possibility that wolves may be capable of leaving behind only the bones of their enemies - so they're not likely to rise as white walkers. I know it's a long-shot, but the Direwolf Nymeria seems almost as dangerous as her Rhoynish namesake. We've seen Bran struggle to separate himself from summer, perhaps Nymeria has enough of Arya in her to despise the Freys above all others? Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. And the Frey's killed Rob, Grey Wind and Catelyn. So I imagine Frey blood tastes all the more sweeter to the her.

Addam Marbrand went south of the Redfork to search for the Blackfish. It brings them in BwB territory we traveled through with Arya, but also wolf pack territory that seem to hunt between the Gods Eye and the Redfork. Addam Marbrand also rides a red stallion (and those horses tend to end up riderless, or if the POV has a choice to make the red stallion rider is usually the wrong "horse to bet on"). I can't see Addam Marbrand ever turn against Lannisers or Jaime, so we can safely conclude Addam is going to be a gonner at some point. I think we'll see him killed by the wolf pack, because we have no other POV for it. Brienne and Jaime (as captives or members) are more east.

[Blackfish Tully]

If you think about it it makes perfect sense that Edmure would be Blackfish's superior even though Blackfish is the Warden. 

I can see Robb talking to Blackfish about it .

 

Robb "OK Brynden , i'm going to make you Warden of the Southern Marches while i go North to deal with the Iron Born. Your job is to defend my Southern Kingdom and keep it safe and secure while i'm up North . Oh and you can't tell Edmure what to do in the Riverlands , he's still your superior and will make decisions for the Riverlands , and also you can't tell Howland Reed what to do in the Neck as well. So really you have no real authority what's so ever over anything in the "Southern Marches" and you will have a massive Tyrell/Lannister army coming at you in the coming months so good luck with all that " 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

15 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Blackfish was made Warden of the Southern Marches which means that he is control of everything south of Moat Calin.

 Do you have any evidence for this? That this Wardenship now makes him Edmure's superior?

Quote

Edmure is still the Lord of the Riverlands and would make most decisions about thing in the Riverlands but for military matters (and surrendering a castle is a military matter) Blackfish is in charge.

That is not really how feudalism works in these books. The people of the castles owe their fealty first and foremost to their Lords.

How come every other soldier in the Riverlands obeyed their Lords when it came to surrendering to the Crown and not the Warden? Quite obviously, no matter what you may want to believe, their Lords orders take precedence over whatever Brynden tells them to do. The Lords are in charge of their own men.

15 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

What sense would it make to make Blackfish Warden of the Southerm Marches but not give him the power over the Riverlands? It would be a stupid military decision. 

He can have power without having absolute power. Big difference. The 'warden' titles in the series are mostly honorific military titles.

 

Just now, Blackfish Tully said:

Frankly this is fanfiction , you have no idea what the people of Riverrun thought and why they surrendered , you keep saying this like you have any clue what happened in Riverrun. 

Are we not told by Edmure?

"You required me to surrender my castle, not my uncle. Am I to blame if your men let him slip through their siege lines?"

This is what we are told, until we have further information it is canon that Edmure, not Brynden, ordered the castle to be surrendered.

Just now, Blackfish Tully said:

 

What do you think the title meant if not him being in control of everything south of the neck ?

 It could mean anything. The fact is neither of us have any idea yet you are the on jumping to conclusions.

Not that it matters, Robb is dead, his Kingdom has ended. Whatever titles he gave are now meaningless.

Just now, Blackfish Tully said:

 

 Robb had named an heir so his kingdom still existed , the Direwolf was still flying over Riverrun so clearly his kingdom still exists. 

Do you think Robb shared this information with the Garrison of Riverrun? That he told them his plans before he told his own mother and generals?

He had not even decided on an heir until after he had left Riverrun.

And again, it does not matter as a Lord in his own castle has the final say on what his own men do. That is what constantly happens in Westeros, Lords orders take precedence.

Just now, Blackfish Tully said:

Edmure was not telling it to "us" he was telling it to Jaimie his enemy , don't you think he may have been telling Jaimie what he wanted to hear .? Telling your enemy the truth is usually not a good idea. 

What difference does it make to Jaime if Edmure tells Jaime that he surrendered or he convinced his uncle to surrender? It makes no difference at all!

 

Just now, Blackfish Tully said:

 

It's the only thing that makes sense .

It makes as much sense as Robb demoting the Lord of the Riverlands titles to being a subordinate of the Warden of the Southern Marshes. If he wanted to make Brynden the leader he simply would have made him Lord of the Riverlands.

More importantly the title is brand spanking new, no one (especially the garrison of Riverrun) are going to be aware which title has more power or influence over them. They are going to go with what they know, that the Lord of Riverrun has ruled them their entire lives not the Warden of the Southern Marshes.

And shit, let us do a timetable of events to see what happened.

AFFC CHAPTER 38: Jaime negotiates with the Blackfish.

"Are there any terms you will accept?" he demanded of the Blackfish.

"From you?" Ser Brynden shrugged. "No."

Clearly Bryndem Tullys position is very, very clear. He is not going to surrender.

 

AFFC CHAPTER 38: Jaime negotiates with Edmure.

"Your uncle is an old man. Valiant, yes, but the best part of his life is done. He has no bride to grieve for him, no children to defend. A good death is all the Blackfish can hope for . . . but you have years remaining, Edmure. And you are the rightful lord of House Tully, not him. Your uncle serves at your pleasure. The fate of Riverrun is in your hands."

Edmure stared. "The fate of Riverrun . . ."

"Yield the castle and no one dies.

All you need do is yield the castle."

Edmure raised his hands from the tub and watched the water run between his fingers. "And if I will not yield?"

Must you make me say the words?

Again, this is very, very clear. Jaime points out that Edmure is the ruler of Riverrun and Jaime also threatens Edmure's unborn child with death.

Sometime after AFFC chapter 38 and before 44: Edmure is released and the castle surrenders

Now we can conclude given that Edmure is released and the castle surrenders, despite the Blackfish clearly stating that he would never do so, then this was Edmure's doing.

AFFC Chapter 44: Jaime talks to Edmure

"I did all that was asked of me."

"Oh?" Jaime Lannister had not slept since Riverrun had opened its gates, and his head was pounding. "I do not recall asking you to let Ser Brynden escape."

"You required me to surrender my castle, not my uncle. Am I to blame if your men let him slip through their siege lines?"

So there we have it. Edmure surrendered the castle. This is what we are told, this is canon.

What you have is a tinfoil theory of what happened. Despite both Edmure, Jaime and the other soldiers of the Riverland Lords making it clear who is in charge, you have a theory that something else happened. That is all you have. Come TWOW this theory might prove true but until then we are quite clearly told that Edmure, not Brynden, surrendered the castle.

[Blackfish Tully]

9 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 Do you have any evidence for this? That this Wardenship now makes him Edmure's superior?

That is not really how feudalism works in these books. The people of the castles owe their fealty first and foremost to their Lords.

How come every other soldier in the Riverlands obeyed their Lords when it came to surrendering to the Crown and not the Warden? Quite obviously, no matter what you may want to believe, their Lords orders take precedence over whatever Brynden tells them to do. The Lords are in charge of their own men.

He can have power without having absolute power. Big difference. The 'warden' titles in the series are mostly honorific military titles.

 

Yes the Lords are in charge of their own men but Blackfish is in charge of the Lords , that's the way it works . If not you have total chaos. 

Somebody has to be in charge and until i see otherwise i'm assuming that the Warden of the Southern marches is in charge of the Riverlands until Robb's heir returns. 

14 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

And again, it does not matter as a Lord in his own castle has the final say on what his own men do. That is what constantly happens in Westeros, Lords orders take precedence.

 

So if Robb was in Riverrun then he would not have the final say on what Edmure's men did ? I doubt that Edmure's orders would take precedence over his KIng. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

8 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Yes the Lords are in charge of their own men but Blackfish is in charge of the Lords , that's the way it works . If not you have total chaos. 

Where does it say that Brynden was in charge of the Lords?
 Can you provide the quote?

8 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Somebody has to be in charge and until i see otherwise i'm assuming that the Warden of the Southern marches is in charge of the Riverlands until Robb's heir returns. 

So the books directly telling us that Edmure surrendered the castle is not good enough for you?

 

8 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

So if Robb was in Riverrun then he would not have the final say on what Edmure's men did ? I doubt that Edmure's orders would take precedence over his KIng. 

Sure they would. We see this time and time again were the soldiers sworn to Lords obey their Lords rather than the King.

[Blackfish Tully]

Back to what Blackfish is going to do . 

Rescuing Edmure is not the impossible task it seems to be . The BWB seems to be all over the siege of Riverrun. 

Daven reports that there are signal fires all around. 

"Your lightning lord's not the only man who knows how to tie a noose. Don't get me started on Lord Beric. He's here, he's there, he's everywhere, but when you send men after him, he melts away like dew. The river lords are helping him, never doubt it. A bloody marcher lord, if you can believe it. One day you hear the man is dead, the next they're saying how he can't be killed." Ser Daven put his wine cup down. "My scouts report fires in the high places at night. Signal fires, they think . . . as if there were a ring of watchers all around us. And there are fires in the villages as well. Some new god . . ."

Jaimie notes that there are missing Riverlords at the Riverrun siege

The nearest ford across the Red Fork was upstream of the castle. To reach Ser Daven's camp they had to ride through Emmon Frey's, past the pavilions of the river lords who had bent their knees and been accepted back into the king's peace. Jaime noted the banners of Lychester and Vance, of Roote and Goodbrook, the acorns of House Smallford and Lord Piper's dancing maiden, but the banners he did not see gave him pause. The silver eagle of Mallister was nowhere in evidence; nor the red horse of Bracken, the willow of the Rygers, the twining snakes of Paege. Though all had renewed their fealty to the Iron Throne, none had come to join the siege. The Brackens were fighting the Blackwoods, Jaime knew, which accounted for their absence, but as for the rest . . .

Where are those Riverlords ? are they in communication with the BWB ? What about the Riverlords at the siege are they working with the BWB? what about any Northerners that are still in the Riverlands ?

There are plenty of potential soldiers for Blackfish to lead and with the BWB  coordinating them it would not be impossible to get a large party of soldiers after Edmure . 

[True.Kitn902]

The Blackfish being warden of the southern marches simply means the BF  is in command of the riverlands army not RR it's self which is Edmure castle and Edmure controls it.  

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

18 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Well timing is an issue. Where would the Blackfish find help from? Considering Jaime sends Edmure and the other prisoners with Prester the next day then he is going to have to have found this help very quickly.

When Edmure and the Westerlings departed, four hundred men rode with them; Jaime had doubled the escort again at the last moment.

It seems unlikely that he will be able to not only find more than 400 trained men, but also 400 horses in one day who are all ready to peruse Prester.

It also seems hugely unlikely that Jaime, who rode part of the way with Prester, would not have noticed the huge column of riders pursuing Prester.

No, that is precisely what happened. The first time they put the noose around his nephews neck he knew the Freys, responsible for the Red Wedding, were capable. He was willing to sacrifice Edmure to hold onto Riverrun a bit longer

As I said, he was willing to sacrifice his nephew.

He probably would do. But it is a pointless plan without an army and the only army he is likely to raise is Robin's in the Vale.

 

 He was willing to let him hang without trying to save him. Edmure's life is in less danger at the Rock then it was with a noose around it when the Blackfish did nothing.

Yes clearly. One of us is basing our opinion on events that happened in the books and the other on our avatar.

He needs to raise men first. He needs to gain support. At present he simply does not have the means to chase after Edmure and rescue him. He is a human being, not Superman

He does not need horses for all his men to catch them.... It's a common misconception that mounted men travel faster than men on foot over long distances... Unless the mounted men have lots of spare horses with them or stations along their path to get more horses, for distances over 100 miles men on foot can cover ground faster.  Horses are great for combat and for fast travel over short distances, but they need lots of time to rest and eat, while soldiers can easily cover forty miles a day on a forced march for several days.

[Blackfish Tully]

1 hour ago, True.Kitn902 said:

The Blackfish being warden of the southern marches simply means the BF  is in command of the riverlands army not RR it's self which is Edmure castle and Edmure controls it.  

Are not the soldiers in Riverrun part of the Riverland army? what sense would it make to put somebody in charge of the defense of the Riverlands but not give him control of the castles and the men inside the castles , wouldn't that unnecessarily tie his hands .?

[sweetsunray]

26 minutes ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

He does not need horses for all his men to catch them.... It's a common misconception that mounted men travel faster than men on foot over long distances... Unless the mounted men have lots of spare horses with them or stations along their path to get more horses, for distances over 100 miles men on foot can cover ground faster.  Horses are great for combat and for fast travel over short distances, but they need lots of time to rest and eat, while soldiers can easily cover forty miles a day on a forced march for several days.

Exactly.

And the houses that supposedly surrendered to the new rule and showed up at the siege: what were they doing? They were eating food and sitting around. It's a delay tactic and it can work. There's a joke how Belgian resistance works in WWII. Let's say you have a metal manufacturer who gets ordered to turn it into an ammunition factory. In many countries the first guy getting the order from the occupiers says "No!" to make a stand, gets put against the wall and shot, etc, until eventually they find a guy who says "Yes" and promptly does it. But in Belgium the chances are high the first guy says "Sure, we'll do that," and then whenver they occupying commanders come to check how the work goes, there will be this issue, and that issue, and it never gets done, and after a few years the occupying army is gone anyway. The region that is now Belgium has been occupied by one army after the other intermittently in the course of 2000 years, beginning with Caesar: Romans, Franks, Germanics, Vikings, French, German, Austrian, Spanish, Dutch. It creates a people who nod yes but do as they please including sabotage. The Riverlands have a similar history of foreign armies and where a lot of the battles are fought, because it are lowlands without few natural barriers, except for rivers. I would count hardly any army at the siege aside from the Freys as trustworthy Frey-Lannister allies. They are collaborators who will help resistance at the same time.

And the Edmure escort to CR will have to ride through the lands and country of these houses.

Of course they will not do an open attack. That's stupid. The Blackfish is smart and has a 15 year logn career of catchign and fighting Vale mountain clans. He'll use an ambush. I expect that they will lure the escort in some type of trap by having natural material blocking the road. They then have to disperse in the woods or file few by few, making it far easier to ambush them. What was that ambush again of the green army who passed woods of hanged men and finally came upon an ambush with live men in trees? None of the green army survived. The Blackfish has at least one day ahead of the escort to make it West, no doubt with the help of others.

[Blackfish Tully]

34 minutes ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

He does not need horses for all his men to catch them.... It's a common misconception that mounted men travel faster than men on foot over long distances... Unless the mounted men have lots of spare horses with them or stations along their path to get more horses, for distances over 100 miles men on foot can cover ground faster.  Horses are great for combat and for fast travel over short distances, but they need lots of time to rest and eat, while soldiers can easily cover forty miles a day on a forced march for several days.

plus Prester has Lady Westerling and her daughters with him so he would not be able to travel as fast as he may want to . 

The BWB would know about the group leaving for the West the question is would they be able to get enough men together to ambush them before they get out of the Riverlands?  400 is a large group but i don't think it's impossible that the Riverlords and the BWB could get as much or more men together and if they had Blackfish to lead them all the better . Who is better at organizing sneak attacks then Blackfish?  

[Blackfish Tully]

4 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

Do you think Robb shared this information with the Garrison of Riverrun? That he told them his plans before he told his own mother and generals?

 

The men of the Riverrun garrison are military men and one thing that i do know about the military is that the chain of command is one of the if not the most important things that they know. Every man of the garrison would know that Blackfish is the Warden of the Southern Marches and they would know exactly what that titles means and where he fits in the chain of command . Blackfish is not one to brag about his titles but he's also a military man through and through , every man in his command would know exactly what the chain of command is at all times . Without the chain of command then you just have chaos and disorder and i do not see Blackfish as the type to allow that to happen. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

23 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Are not the soldiers in Riverrun part of the Riverland army? what sense would it make to put somebody in charge of the defense of the Riverlands but not give him control of the castles and the men inside the castles , wouldn't that unnecessarily tie his hands .?

Are not the many, many Riverland soldiers holding Riverrun under siege part of the Riverland army? How come they are obeying their Riverland Lords and not the Warden of the Southern Marches?

And we have no idea what powers came with this title. The Wardenship title can still be effective without it displacing the Lord of the Riverlands.

15 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

The BWB would know about the group leaving for the West the question is would they be able to get enough men together to ambush them before they get out of the Riverlands?  400 is a large group but i don't think it's impossible that the Riverlords and the BWB could get as much or more men together and if they had Blackfish to lead them all the better . Who is better at organizing sneak attacks then Blackfish?  

Sneak attacks either require to be already ahead of or faster than them. Without at least 400 horses this seems unlikely, though not impossible as this is a fantasy novel after all.

It also should be remembered that at a similar time Edmure was sent West the BWB were ambushing Ryman Frey's party going North to the Twins while Brienne seems to be captured by another group at the Inn of the Crossroads east of Riverrun. Clearly the BWB are already fractured and not altogether, ready to track down the 400 with Edmure. 

Furthermore, it makes more sense for them to focus on capturing Jaime and exchanging prisoners rather than chasing something of a lost cause.

8 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

The men of the Riverrun garrison are military men and one thing that i do know about the military is that the chain of command is one of the if not the most important things that they know.

You have yet to provide any evidence to show what rank the Warden has.

Quote

Every man of the garrison would know that Blackfish is the Warden of the Southern Marches and they would know exactly what that titles means and where he fits in the chain of command .

How would they? Do you think they were explicitly told that the Blackfish now outranks the Lord of Riverrun?

 

Quote

Blackfish is not one to brag about his titles but he's also a military man through and through , every man in his command would know exactly what the chain of command is at all times . Without the chain of command then you just have chaos and disorder and i do not see Blackfish as the type to allow that to happen. 

Well it did. It is written in the books.

[Blackfish Tully]

20 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Are not the many, many Riverland soldiers holding Riverrun under siege part of the Riverland army? How come they are obeying their Riverland Lords and not the Warden of the Southern Marches?

 

Because their Riverland Lords have betrayed the Starks and have bent their knee to the Lannisters , i thought  that was pretty clear in the books. 

 

20 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

Sneak attacks either require to be already ahead of or faster than them. Without at least 400 horses this seems unlikely, though not impossible as this is a fantasy novel after all.

It also should be remembered that at a similar time Edmure was sent West the BWB were ambushing Ryman Frey's party going North to the Twins while Brienne seems to be captured by another group at the Inn of the Crossroads east of Riverrun. Clearly the BWB are already fractured and not altogether, ready to track down the 400 with Edmure. 

Furthermore, it makes more sense for them to focus on capturing Jaime and exchanging prisoners rather than chasing something of a Lost cause.

 

We have no idea where and how many men are in the BWB and also we have no idea how much the BWB are communicating with the Riverlords . There are plenty of men in the Riverlands that could ambush the party heading West the question is can the get organized in time . Prester's party has women with him and he's going to be extra careful with his movements so there would be time to get an ambush ready i would think.. 

 

20 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

You have yet to provide any evidence to show what rank the Warden has.

20 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

 

Until GRRM releases an official job description i guess we will just have to use our best judgement  . Mine tells me that Warden of the Southern Marches is in charge of the "Southern Marches" which i'm assuming is everything South of Moat Calin. 

 

20 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

How would they? Do you think they were explicitly told that the Blackfish now outranks the Lord of Riverrun?

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Of course they would have . The Riverlands are at war and the garrison of Riverrun are soldiers in that war so what sense would it make not to tell them who is in charge? The Blackfish is in Riverrun with a new title "Warden of the Southern Marches"  so every Lord , commander, Knight , ect..  would be told what his title meant and where he stands in the chain of command and they would pass that information down the ranks until every soldier in the Riverlands knows what it means . That's how the military works and frankly i'm not sure why i have to explain this . Don't you think that everybody in the Lannister army knows that Daven is the Warden of the West? even the soldiers in the Casterly Rock garrison would know it.