The Fattest Leech

Wood Dancers and Bran and Pinocchio???

45 posts in this topic

I think you should read this page on the Land of Toys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Toys

Basically, it's a location in "The Adventures of Pinocchio" that serves as a haven for wayward boys and girls, allowing them them to act as they please without recrimination. However, its truer and more sinister purpose is eventually revealed as it begins to physically transform the boys and girls into donkeys, apparently by means of a curse.

I think this might have some bearing on Bran's future. From his first chapter:

Quote

Ass,” Jon muttered, low enough so Greyjoy did not hear. He put a hand on Bran’s shoulder, and Bran looked over at his bastard brother. “You did well,” Jon told him solemnly. Jon was fourteen, an old hand at justice. 

Jon calls Theon an ass, as in the animal. If Bran skinchanges Theon, which seems very likely, then you could say that he transforms into an ass, just like Pinocchio. 

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3 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

I think you should read this page on the Land of Toys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Toys

Basically, it's a location in "The Adventures of Pinocchio" that serves as a haven for wayward boys and girls, allowing them them to act as they please without recrimination. However, its truer and more sinister purpose is eventually revealed as it begins to physically transform the boys and girls into donkeys, apparently by means of a curse.

I think this might have some bearing on Bran's future. From his first chapter:

Jon calls Theon an ass, as in the animal. If Bran skinchanges Theon, which seems very likely, then you could say that he transforms into an ass, just like Pinocchio. 

Egg-cellent! 

George did say Pinocchio was his favorite Disney movie because of just these things you mentioned. 

After I finish decorating the Christmas tree, and finishing my Jack Mule, I'll give it a looksy. 

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16 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Egg-cellent! 

George did say Pinocchio was his favorite Disney movie because of just these things you mentioned. 

After I finish decorating the Christmas tree, and finishing my Jack Mule, I'll give it a looksy. 

You see, now that seems proper to me. My damnable sweet, lovely wife, had us put the tree up more than a month ago. Bah, humbug!!

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46 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

You see, now that seems proper to me. My damnable sweet, lovely wife, had us put the tree up more than a month ago. Bah, humbug!!

Well, I'm damnable to all hells and I just put it up two nights ago but am only just now finished decorating it! It comes down within the first week of January too.

 

4 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

I think you should read this page on the Land of Toys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Toys

Basically, it's a location in "The Adventures of Pinocchio" that serves as a haven for wayward boys and girls, allowing them them to act as they please without recrimination. However, its truer and more sinister purpose is eventually revealed as it begins to physically transform the boys and girls into donkeys, apparently by means of a curse.

I think this might have some bearing on Bran's future. From his first chapter:

Jon calls Theon an ass, as in the animal. If Bran skinchanges Theon, which seems very likely, then you could say that he transforms into an ass, just like Pinocchio. 

I love that someone else is still joining this conversation. Honestly, I never thought it would go anywhere, therefore I just have not attended it very much. Also, the link it great!

It mentions this part, "To its unsuspecting visitors, it appears to be a fantastic place where boys and girls can do whatever they want with no consequences or law. However, its real use is for a slave trade.", and to me, that is why I stubbornly think Bloodraven could be up to no good. Aside from that being one of the sub-plots in the story, it reminds me of this with Bran in the cave:

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

Bran ate with Summer and his pack, as a wolf. As a raven he flew with the murder, circling the hill at sunset, watching for foes, feeling the icy touch of the air. As Hodor he explored the caves. He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling. He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak. "Hodor," Bran said to him, and he felt the real Hodor stir down in his pit.
 
Were they trying to warn Bran? I don't believe the CotF are up to no good, just maybe BR.
I could be totally wrong because it depends on how much George is using from this story before he merges it and starts using his own story.
Edited by The Fattest Leech

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On 23/12/2016 at 8:25 PM, TyrionTLannister said:

Jon calls Theon an ass, as in the animal. If Bran skinchanges Theon, which seems very likely, then you could say that he transforms into an ass, just like Pinocchio. 

I needed one moment to remind that ass is an old word for donkey :D

According to the fact that donkey/ass are inslaved in the Pinocchio's tale, I think they play in the saga the same symbolic part than sheeps/lambs and other "scapegoat" characters. I mean they perhaps committed some faults or crimes (if they aren't just totally innocents), but what they pay in return is a huge or inadequate price. They are the ancient slaves in Valyria, and the false guilties in Westeros (Theon didn't burn Winterfell nor kill Bran and Rickon; Tyrion didn't killed Joffrey; Cersei didn't kill Jon Arryn (not directly but I think she took little part by sending Pycelle to him when he was poisoned); the boar isn't the only responsible for Robert's death; Brienne didn't kill Renly; Jon Snow nor Craster didn't kill Jeor Mormont; most probably Ramsay isn't guilty for Domeric's death; aso...)

 

On 24/12/2016 at 1:05 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

It mentions this part, "To its unsuspecting visitors, it appears to be a fantastic place where boys and girls can do whatever they want with no consequences or law. However, its real use is for a slave trade.", and to me, that is why I stubbornly think Bloodraven could be up to no good.

I can't see Bloodraven as evil, but I'm also pretty sure all his stuff is preparing Bran to his proper death. More exactly to the ultimate sacrifice of the "3 Eyed-Crow" (which includes Bloodraven's death). And if you consider that at the beginning of the tale, Pinocchio is only a little log for fire, Bran could finish as this log when he began as a true (and clay) little boy. In fact, he seems accomplish some reverse way, and I purpose this hypothesis : it could symbolize the fact that he must go backwards, to find the origin of the Other (the curse of the heart of Winter ^^) and cut the strings (=the curse) which make dance his family blood, and probably now all the world (I think that the Night Watch - by taking "no part" in realms affairs - had in fact and ironically a determinant part by transmitting the original curse to entire Westeros if not even more).

 Daenerys is a chainbreaker. Yeah ! Pinocchio's tale can explain why she spend's so loooong time in Slavers Bay ^^ ! Chainbreaker not only for others but also for herself = Varys and Illyrio failed to manipulate her, Mirri tempted but by taking Rhaego's life she permitted giving birth to dragons, Viserys died, Jorah was expelled, she flied with Drogon when just married to "rabbit's king"... Daenerys can absolutely wear no chains, no strings. 

Also Tyrion - after he built a giant chain when he play the Hand part for his father (and refused an armor form himself from a smith) - at the end of ADWD tells to the Seconds son's smith to break his slave's collar and choose his armor. 

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7 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

I needed one moment to remind that ass is an old word for donkey :D

Oh yes!

:D

 

7 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

According to the fact that donkey/ass are inslaved in the Pinocchio's tale, I think they play in the saga the same symbolic part than sheeps/lambs and other "scapegoat" characters. I mean they perhaps committed some faults or crimes (if they aren't just totally innocents), but what they pay in return is a huge or inadequate price. They are the ancient slaves in Valyria, and the false guilties in Westeros (Theon didn't burn Winterfell nor kill Bran and Rickon; Tyrion didn't killed Joffrey; Cersei didn't kill Jon Arryn (not directly but I think she took little part by sending Pycelle to him when he was poisoned); the boar isn't the only responsible for Robert's death; Brienne didn't kill Renly; Jon Snow nor Craster didn't kill Jeor Mormont; most probably Ramsay isn't guilty for Domeric's death; aso...

To me, it seems that the donkeys are the ones who were seduced by the elements and actually left a little morality behind to indulge themselves in their wants, and turning into a donkey was the result- make an ass out of yourself and you will turn into one. I love Bran, he is a top 3 favorite of mine, but as discussed before on other threads, he can be naughty. Maester Aemon gives the speech that Hodor is to be treated well because he is a human, but Bran still skinchanges him even though it hurts or upsets Hodor. Bran was told not to climb Winterfell, but he still does. He is told not to stay too long in Summer's body, but he stays longer and longer. Even when Bran is in the cave, he "sneak" skinchanges Hodor and tricks the others around him like he (Bran) is just sleeping. I am not saying Bran is bad, or evil, just naughty the way many little boys are. A little willful, like Auntie Lyanna, but he too has a lesson to learn.

 

7 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

 

I can't see Bloodraven as evil, but I'm also pretty sure all his stuff is preparing Bran to his proper death. More exactly to the ultimate sacrifice of the "3 Eyed-Crow" (which includes Bloodraven's death).

Quite possibly. To me, Brynden Bloodraven Rivers in life, and now the 3EC in the cave, has always been the most interesting character that was always swayed from the most dark grey to the most white. He seems to have such a strong dichotomy in his development and this, admittedly, has me the most confused and the most intrigued. Either way, I love him and the Bran/Bloodraven arc is THE most anticipated read for me in TWOW. Rarely (ever?) do we have such a character that is "all good" on page from the start. This leaves me wondering what is up.

 

7 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

 

And if you consider that at the beginning of the tale, Pinocchio is only a little log for fire, Bran could finish as this log when he began as a true (and clay) little boy. In fact, he seems accomplish some reverse way, and I purpose this hypothesis : it could symbolize the fact that he must go backwards, to find the origin of the Other (the curse of the heart of Winter ^^) and cut the strings (=the curse) which make dance his family blood, and probably now all the world (I think that the Night Watch - by taking "no part" in realms affairs - had in fact and ironically a determinant part by transmitting the original curse to entire Westeros if not even more).

I agree. I think the more Bran sees through the weirnet, the more he learns, and the better the chances he will cut his strings and become independent. This is his escape from the Land of Toys, which could possibly play out as him escaping the cave as well??? Just speculation on that.

That is an interesting point you make about the NW and "taking no part", never thought of it that way :thumbsup:. The funny thing being that Marsh, Yarwyck, and Slynt were all conspiring with the throne to determine what happens at the wall, and plotting to kill Jon, way before Jon was even LC. The southron politics of Wetseros were actually meddling with the affairs of the NW for a while, and now the wall has symbolically fallen as a result. George gave a nice, slow build-up to the mutiny. I believe Jon had to "die" that same way Bran had to "die", which was to help open their third eye/super duper powers.

 

7 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

 Daenerys is a chainbreaker. Yeah ! Pinocchio's tale can explain why she spend's so loooong time in Slavers Bay ^^ ! Chainbreaker not only for others but also for herself = Varys and Illyrio failed to manipulate her, Mirri tempted but by taking Rhaego's life she permitted giving birth to dragons, Viserys died, Jorah was expelled, she flied with Drogon when just married to "rabbit's king"... Daenerys can absolutely wear no chains, no strings. 

Also Tyrion - after he built a giant chain when he play the Hand part for his father (and refused an armor form himself from a smith) - at the end of ADWD tells to the Seconds son's smith to break his slave's collar and choose his armor. 

Nice link between Daenerys and Tyrion with the chains. Considering Tyrion was in actual chains (gold and then fetters) and Dany in metaphorical chains (Meereenese Knot, and the fact the two will be joined in together by the end of TWOW, this is a great connection between the two.

 

I still need another day or two to really get into the deeper connections to this Pinocchio idea. It is still Christmas time around my parts. However, the fact that the Land of Toys is located in Cocagne is also intriguing, and Cocagne has links to the Feast of Fools. Here is a bit about Cocagne:

Cockaigne or Cockayne /kɒˈkn/ is a land of plenty in medieval myth, an imaginary place of extreme luxury and ease where physical comforts and pleasures are always immediately at hand and where the harshness of medieval peasant life does not exist.[1] Specifically, in poems like The Land of Cockaigne, Cockaigne is a land of contraries, where all the restrictions of society are defied (abbots beaten by their monks), sexual liberty is open (nuns flipped over to show their bottoms), and food is plentiful (skies that rain cheeses). Writing about Cockaigne was a commonplace of Goliard verse. It represented both wish fulfillment and resentment at the strictures of asceticism and death.

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17 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

6To me, it seems that the donkeys are the ones who were seduced by the elements and actually left a little morality behind to indulge themselves in their wants, and turning into a donkey was the result- make an ass out of yourself and you will turn into one. I love Bran, he is a top 3 favorite of mine, but as discussed before on other threads, he can be naughty. Maester Aemon gives the speech that Hodor is to be treated well because he is a human, but Bran still skinchanges him even though it hurts or upsets Hodor. Bran was told not to climb Winterfell, but he still does. He is told not to stay too long in Summer's body, but he stays longer and longer. Even when Bran is in the cave, he "sneak" skinchanges Hodor and tricks the others around him like he (Bran) is just sleeping. I am not saying Bran is bad, or evil, just naughty the way many little boys are. A little willful, like Auntie Lyanna, but he too has a lesson to learn.

Yes, in France, the bad little scolars went in the corner of the classroom and were wearing donkey's ears, to show they were stupid or not obedient (that's finished now ^^). And, as @TyrionTLannister quote, Theon is called "ass" in the first chapter of the saga; Theon seems the capricious and immature boy who wants to appear as an adult, like Lampwick in the Pinocchio's movie. But at the end, the donkeys are also exploited/enslaved victims, and that's the reason why I was comparing them to the sheeps/lambs. 

Perhaps, the sheeps/lamb/scapegoat is the result for some characters being first like "donkey". When I will have time, I'll look if the donkey metaphor matches with Tyrion (and his land of Cocagne could be Kingslanding when he plays the Hand part; and funnily, at the Sorrows he save Young Griff and is drowned, like Pinocchio dies saving Gepetto from Monstro), or with Arya. And Also with Sansa or Jon. I have very good feeling about Tyrion's arc, but immediatly no idea about the others three. 

 

(I think I'm passioniated by all ASOIAF's characters equally (and alternatively), and I'm not able to decide wich arc I'm the most waiting for :P)

Ok, my little baby girls are calling for their mum, I leave the place ! 

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You’re asking a lame man to teach a cripple how to dance,” Tyrion said. “However sincere the lesson, the result is likely to be grotesque. Still, I know what it is to love a brother, Lord Snow. I will give Bran whatever small help is in my power.” - AGOT Tyrion

I wonder if the lame man refers to Bloodraven. The fact that the result is said to be grotesque is very worrying.

Another parallel between the Fox and the Cat and Theon and Ramsay:

Quote

As Pinocchio travels home to give the coins to his father, he meets a fox and a cat. The Cat pretends to be blind, and the Fox pretends to be lame. A white blackbird tries to warn Pinocchio of their lies, but the blackbird is eaten by the Cat, at which point the Fox states that the blackbird talked too much and had to be silenced

The ironborn can’t keep secrets, they had to die, and someone had to take the blame for it. - ACOK Theon

 

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@The Fattest Leech

I found another reference to PInocchio's movie perfectly integrated to the narration (and the others symbolics). It's in ACOK, Arya IX : 

Quote

Arya's hands curled into helpless fists. "The next helm you make, put mule's ears on it in place of bull's horns!"

Arya just have quarrel with Gendry, whom she asked for help to free the Northmen at Harrenhal. Finally, she will replay with Jaqen the legend of the first Facelessman in the mines of Valyria. At Harrenhal, the servants are like slaves. 

No time to develop more, but Jaqen says also that Arya is an "evil child", in the same chapter, and that recalls the disney Movie of Pinocchio, when evil child are punished by becoming mules/donkey/ass. 

(Arya as a wood-dancer in the same chapter was yet noticed in the first page of this topic)

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On 1/10/2017 at 4:30 AM, GloubieBoulga said:

@The Fattest Leech

I found another reference to PInocchio's movie perfectly integrated to the narration (and the others symbolics). It's in ACOK, Arya IX : 

Arya just have quarrel with Gendry, whom she asked for help to free the Northmen at Harrenhal. Finally, she will replay with Jaqen the legend of the first Facelessman in the mines of Valyria. At Harrenhal, the servants are like slaves. 

No time to develop more, but Jaqen says also that Arya is an "evil child", in the same chapter, and that recalls the disney Movie of Pinocchio, when evil child are punished by becoming mules/donkey/ass. 

(Arya as a wood-dancer in the same chapter was yet noticed in the first page of this topic)

:blink:...:thumbsup: Excellent find.

Here is the whole quote. I wanted to add this here because Arya also calls Gendry "mulehead". A mule is a sterile hybrid of a male donkey and a female horse. A half and half. We see this "sterile" side of Gendry when he rejects Bella at the Peach (for more reasons than she is a half-sister unknown to him).

Also, Lyanna was described as "half a horse", and Arya is described as like a mini version of Lyanna.

The Land of Toys, where the mule/donkey/bad kids go, it a representation of both wish-fulfillment and resentment. Arya struggles with this in her interactions with Gendry. She likes him, but she is still too wild to grasp a few concepts of control. She gets that control training while at the HoBW, and I think this will help her when she returns to Westeros, the Riverlands specifically, where the foreshadowing of an Arya/Genry reunion of sorts is heavily implied.

Gendry won't be that sterile mule for long ;)

However, when Arya returns and meets Gendry again, he won't be a mulehead, he will "skinchange" and once again be a bullhead (not to mention his strong male stag blood). Gendry will also be more trained, have more experience with the common people and some politics now that he is outside of the little blacksmiths shop and has real world experience. Gendry is now also protecting the children, something the warrior is supposed to do, and I believe he was able to get his bull's helm back??? The job of a bull is to protect his herd.

  • A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

"I'm a 'prentice smith, and one day might be I'll make a master armorer . . . if I don't run off and lose my feet or get myself killed." He turned away from her, picked up his hammer once more, and began to bang.
Arya's hands curled into helpless fists. "The next helm you make, put mule's ears on it in place of bull's horns!" She had to flee, or else she would have started hitting him. He probably wouldn't even feel it if I did. When they find who he is and cut off his stupid mulehead, he'll be sorry he didn't help. She was better off without him anyhow. He was the one who got her caught at the village.
 
UPDATING: This is the type of mule Arya was talking about in regards to Gendry and mule's ears. Gendry was never sterile. Arya was just reinforcing the stag deer symbol for Gendry and the river/water symbol she has, and the color black.

The mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) is a deer indigenous to western North America; it is named for its ears, which are large like those of the mule. There are believed to be several subspecies, including the black-tailed deer.[1][3][4][5][6][7]

Unlike the related white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus), mule deer are generally more associated with the land west of the Missouri River,

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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@GloubieBoulga I was just given the info about an Italian fairy tales book that George translated back in the early 90's (if I remember correctly). I thought that was such a cool coincidence that I went ahead and found the book on Amazon and ordered it. 

I'll give updates to that in the weeks ahead. 

Have you found anything yet?

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8 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Have you found anything yet?

That was me who has the book, Italian Folktales, by Italo Calvino, translated by GRRM.

It is a big book with lots of stories. I go through a few each night. No Pinocchio stuff, but a hell of a lot of other stories that you can't help but wonder if they are direct inspiration for GRRM at times. It could be a name, what happens to someone while they travel, or the "lesson" behind the story, and definitely the idea that just because someone wears black or is called a witch, doesn't make them "bad".

I am loving the hell out of the book.

Here is a link to an interesting review on that book done by another fantasy author.

https://newrepublic.com/article/114763/ursula-k-le-guin-italo-calvino

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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I've found some foreshadowing that Bran will kill Bloodraven.

Quote

The next day two of them came together to audience; the Greatjon's uncles, blustery men in the winter of their days with beards as white as the bearskin cloaks they wore. A crow had once taken Mors for dead and pecked out his eye, so he wore a chunk of dragonglass in its stead. As Old Nan told the tale, he'd grabbed the crow in his fist and bitten its head off, so they named him Crowfood. She would never tell Bran why his gaunt brother Hother was called Whoresbane. (ACOK Bran II)

So Mors killed the crow that pecked out his eye. Later in the chapter, the three-eyed crow pecks out Bran's eye. 

Quote

Fly or die!" cried the three-eyed crow as it pecked at him. He wept and pleaded but the crow had no pity. It put out his left eye and then his right, and when he was blind in the dark it pecked at his brow, driving its terrible sharp beak deep into his skull. He screamed until he was certain his lungs must burst.

So this could foreshadow Bran killing Bloodraven. 

Quote

None of them had been as strong as Varamyr Sixskins, though, not even Haggon, tall and grim with his hands as hard as stone. The hunter died weeping after Varamyr took Greyskin from him, driving him out to claim the beast for his own. No second life for you, old man. Varamyr Threeskins, he’d called himself back then. Greyskin made four, though the old wolf was frail and almost toothless and soon followed Haggon into death. (ADWD Prologue)

Varamyr kills his mentor, Haggon, because he didn't like the rules he imposed on him. This could foreshadow Bran killing Bloodraven for similar reasons.

 

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On 2/23/2017 at 3:56 AM, TyrionTLannister said:

I've found some foreshadowing that Bran will kill Bloodraven.

So Mors killed the crow that pecked out his eye. Later in the chapter, the three-eyed crow pecks out Bran's eye. 

So this could foreshadow Bran killing Bloodraven. 

Varamyr kills his mentor, Haggon, because he didn't like the rules he imposed on him. This could foreshadow Bran killing Bloodraven for similar reasons.

 

Remeber this from the Land of Toys in Pinocchio?

Located in the fictional land of Cocagne,[citation needed] Pleasure Island serves as a haven for wayward boys and girls, allowing them to act as they please without recrimination. However, the truer and more sinister purpose of Pleasure Island is eventually revealed as it begins to physically transform the boys and girls into donkeys, apparently by means of a curse.

Oddly enough I also think Bran may have to kill Bloodraven. Maybe not quite like this, but maybe more to save his own life. To me, it seems like Bran is already starting to turn into a tree after he ate the weirwood pate (Jojen paste) and he started to have stronger visions he comes back to now and has this little experience. This could be like Pinocchio turning into a donkey in the story. However, Pinocchio does end up escaping. Will Bran?

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"No," said Leaf. "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death."
"I saw him." Bran could feel rough wood pressing against one cheek. "He was cleaning Ice."
"You saw what you wished to see. Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw."
Edited by The Fattest Leech

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2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Oddly enough I also think Bran may have to kill Bloodraven. Maybe not quite like this, but maybe more to save his own life. To me, it seems like Bran is already starting to turn into a tree after he ate the weirwood pate (Jojen paste) and he started to have stronger visions he comes back to now and has this little experience. This could be like Pinocchio turning into a donkey in the story. However, Pinocchio does end up escaping. Will Bran?

Very interesting. That does make more sense. Do you think you could start a thread about it?

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6 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Very interesting. That does make more sense. Do you think you could start a thread about it?

I have considered that. Maybe I will later today. 

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41 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have considered that. Maybe I will later today. 

Well, I'll keep an eye out for it!

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2 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Well, I'll keep an eye out for it!

Ok, reality is telling me that I won't be able to get a good thread going about this topic until maybe Tuesday. That will give me the time I need to get my other real-world writing done and ready for a meeting on Monday, time to get the correct source information organized, which brings me to Tuesday. I will tag you when I get a thread posted.

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Thoughts...

The Wood Dancers turning the trees into weapons sounds like an homage to Tolkien and the ents.

The greenseers calling beasts = Bran will surpass Varamyr in bond animals who will help in the fight against the Others...provided he can protect them from wighting. The Warg King had "beasts" so the ability to have more than one bond animal has a decent history. If indeed the BlackwoodWK theory is correct then Bran has the necessary bloodlines to do this (it might even be the combination of Stark and Blackwood that makes him as powerful as he is). 

Pinocchio (at least in the movie) escapes and goes home calling for his father, and then goes after his father who had gone looking for him and saves his father at the cost of his own life. Bran can't go after Ned, but he CAN go after his family. Hopefully he won't have to sacrifice himself and his own life in order to save what remains of House Stark.

I'm not sold on Bloodraven as bad guy. In fact I think somewhere is a fairy tale or folk tale for him, and he's intersecting with Pinocchio's tale.  The Sleeping Beauty in the Wood maybe? ;)

When did Bloodraven do something equivalent to Gepetto making Pinocchio new feet? 

Unimportant perfectionist nonsense: Bloodraven is not a diminutive, it's a byname. A diminutive for Brynden would be Bryn, or Den, or Denny. It's late, I'm hurting (dentist yesterday) and I cannot stop myself from mentioning this.

The Blue Fairy's line about them all being dead reminds me strongly of Coldhands rather than Meera. He's dead, the wights are dead, anyone the Others get to is dead, Bloodraven is nearly dead, the Children are almost extinct. It's a dead kind of landscape in which he lives. And if Bran doesn't get trained, everybody's going to be dead.

I've long held to the belief that Littlefinger's goal is not to sit the IT but to be the puppetmaster behind the throne. He wants to make everyone dance while he pulls the strings. LF is actually an interesting parallel to Bran. In a way LF is Pinocchio too because he grew up wanting to be a "real boy" in the sense of wanting to be one of the upper crust of Westerosi nobility. He lies so much his nose would be a forest by now if this was literal. He was the puppet, dependent on those above him, his life determined by which strings they pulled, and when he tried to break free, he ended up broken. He's spent his whole life trying to prove he's not broken, but it's the pain from the past that still drives him, and he smashed his cricket...er, conscience, long ago.

@The Fattest Leech is there a table of contents for that book of Italian folk tales? I've spent years looking (when I remember) for a book of Italian Fairy Tales that my family had when I was a kid, with no luck. Now I'm hoping to find any of the stories it had in other books.

Great thread, by the way.

On to other fairy tales...the Humpty Dumpty for Patchface got me thinking of Shireen as Alice who is in danger from Mel as the Queen of Hearts. I hope Arya as TLM doesn't end up losing her tongue...which puts me in mind of Varys' little birds, Ser Ilyn Payne, and Euron's crew.

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12 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I've long held to the belief that Littlefinger's goal is not to sit the IT but to be the puppetmaster behind the throne. He wants to make everyone dance while he pulls the strings. LF is actually an interesting parallel to Bran. In a way LF is Pinocchio too because he grew up wanting to be a "real boy" in the sense of wanting to be one of the upper crust of Westerosi nobility. He lies so much his nose would be a forest by now if this was literal. He was the puppet, dependent on those above him, his life determined by which strings they pulled, and when he tried to break free, he ended up broken. He's spent his whole life trying to prove he's not broken, but it's the pain from the past that still drives him, and he smashed his cricket...er, conscience, long ago.

I like very much your way to synthetize LF character ! LF, the crow/bird/singer character on the tree, who whispers the tonality, who stays hidden behind the leaves, and whom all child dreams were broken


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