Channel4s-JonSnow Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Just now, StepStark said: Me? I think you are misunderstanding something. Conspiracy is who killed Kennedy, for example. This is about influence on the media. And it's clearly stated that way in the documentary. Yes a concerted effort by the media to give Game of Thrones good reviews. There is no proof of it, certainly not in the documentary. Its basically a conspiracy theory. "A conspiracy theory is an explanatory or speculative hypothesis suggesting that two or more persons, or an organization, have conspired to cause or cover up, through secret planning and deliberate action, an event or situation typically regarded as illegal or harmful. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 12 hours ago, Ser Gareth said: "As the series continues to achieve critical acclaim for its plotting, high production value and performances, my own interest has waned. This first happened around the time of the third season premiere. I had begun to grow disappointed with the Khaleesi character, our mother of dragons. To see her rise from passive, abused wife to the leader of arguably the most vicious people in the “Thrones” world was an awesome feat. But it’s hard to continue to root and sympathize with a character whose only distinguishing acts as of late revolve around being the white liberator of slaves." You probably realize that this quote doesn't support your case at all. That reviewer points out at the critical acclaim that he thinks the show doesn't deserve. It's ironic really that your quote supports exactly the thing we're saying here for years: that GOT gets good reviews it doesn't deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Yes a concerted effort by the media to give Game of Thrones good reviews. There is no proof of it, certainly not in the documentary. Its basically a conspiracy theory. "A conspiracy theory is an explanatory or speculative hypothesis suggesting that two or more persons, or an organization, have conspired to cause or cover up, through secret planning and deliberate action, an event or situation typically regarded as illegal or harmful. " And that's not what that Serbian journalist was talking about. She wasn't talking about the media organizing in secret to write good reviews about GOT. No, she was just talking about the promotion of GOT that is far stronger than any other promotion of any other show. and about the impact such a promotion had on the reviewers. That is not even similar to what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Just now, StepStark said: And that's not what that Serbian journalist was talking about. She wasn't talking about the media organizing in secret to write good reviews about GOT. No, she was just talking about the promotion of GOT that is far stronger than any other promotion of any other show. and about the impact such a promotion had on the reviewers. That is not even similar to what you are saying. The entire documentary is about WHY the show gets far greater reviews than it deserves. Your words. Now either reviewers are writing reviews based on their own opinion, or there is some external force changing their opinions that we don't know about. Thats what he's getting at. But he has nothing to back it up, just one woman who got taken out for a few nights out and got a couple of gifts, as if that doesn't happen everywhere. "Why is the voice of dissent left behind? Why would any legitimate opinion, and especially one that is shared by huge number of people, be ignored and marginalized? What makes Game of Thronesso special, that the critique of it gets silenced?" From his own site. He's suggesting someone out there is 'silencing' critical opinion. Someone is conspiring to silence him and ranters on the internet. Of course its set out like a conspiracy. Just watch the documentary and look at his website. Your defence of it is baffling. Of course he never found a single shred of evidence for any of this 'silencing', because it doesn't exist. He doesn't understand that nobody really cares about his opinion because its not representative of the general population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: The entire documentary is about WHY the show gets far greater reviews than it deserves. Your words. Now either reviewers are writing reviews based on their own opinion, or there is some external force changing their opinions that we don't know about. Thats what he's getting at. But he has nothing to back it up, just one woman who got taken out for a few nights out and got a couple of gifts, as if that doesn't happen everywhere. "Why is the voice of dissent left behind? Why would any legitimate opinion, and especially one that is shared by huge number of people, be ignored and marginalized? What makes Game of Thronesso special, that the critique of it gets silenced?" From his own site. He's suggesting someone out there is 'silencing' critical opinion. Someone is conspiring to silence him and ranters on the internet. Of course its set out like a conspiracy. Just watch the documentary and look at his website. Your defence of it is baffling. Of course he never found a single shred of evidence for any of this 'silencing', because it doesn't exist. He doesn't understand that nobody really cares about his opinion because its not representative of the general population. Sorry, but you really seem confused. That is not conspiracy. There is something called interest. It is in HBO's interest that GOT gets good reviews. And HBO does everything in their power to get them. They are not conspiring to get them. They are just trying and obviously succeeding to influence the media with their promotions. That is not conspiracy, but influence of the powerful corporations. Nobody is talking about any evidence of any conspiracy. Only you. You are making a strawman argument here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, StepStark said: Sorry, but you really seem confused. That is not conspiracy. There is something called interest. It is in HBO's interest that GOT gets good reviews. And HBO does everything in their power to get them. They are not conspiring to get them. They are just trying and obviously succeeding to influence the media with their promotions. That is not conspiracy, but influence of the powerful corporations. Nobody is talking about any evidence of any conspiracy. Only you. You are making a strawman argument here. Ok I think your being purposely dumb here so I'm going to leave it. Clearly you just don't understand, or just don;'t want to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Ok I think your being purposely dumb here so I'm going to leave it. Clearly you just don't understand. Me again? How come it's never you who don't understand something? FYI you misunderstand a lot of things. For example you also misunderstood the point about actors' excuses. It wasn't about anyone being forced to read the books, but about their fake excuse. You keep misunderstanding the complaints many of us have on the show. Maybe you should think a little about things you don't understand instead of calling me "purposely dumb." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, StepStark said: Me again? How come it's never you who don't understand something? FYI you misunderstand a lot of things. For example you also misunderstood the point about actors' excuses. It wasn't about anyone being forced to read the books, but about their fake excuse. You keep misunderstanding the complaints many of us have on the show. Maybe you should think a little about things you don't understand instead of calling me "purposely dumb." Ok, let me ask you, the documentary claims someone is silencing the voice of dissent about the show, who is doing this and how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 What is said and what I read: 3 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: <> I kind of wish he'd gone and explored topics like - why is dissent about something that is so popular so hated by a select few? What is it about popularity that gives people a sense of superiority and smugness when they don't like dissent about that popularity it. Does being able to see honeypot non-existent plot and logicdetails that other people don't make us feel special and what is it that causes us to obsess over these things. - The culture of internet discussion is very interesting, because of how different it is to real life. A board like this for instance is like a petrie dish of ideas, someone will come up with a honeypot theory to justify the plot holes problem they have and it will grow and suddenly everyone is repeating it as if it were something they came up with. Thats not someone particular to this forum either, the internet as a whole works that way. But what is it about internet discussion that created such anger defensiveness in someone that they made paid for and watched this documentary and spent hours criticising it. I think that is interesting. - The nature of fandom, the tribalism of it. This guy clearly feels his identity is tied up with GRRMs D&D&C's work and takes this stuff pretty personally, otherwise why make spend so much time criticising a fan-made documentary. - Geek Culture. What is going on in our lives that we have the time and energy to spend talking about this stuff, and making criticising documentaries about it. Shouldn't we all be doing something a bit more worthwhile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 10 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Ok, let me ask you, the documentary claims someone is silencing the voice of dissent about the show, who is doing this and how? They also claim someone's ignoring and marginalizing that same voice of dissent. So when you put everything in the context, it makes more sense. I'll grant you that silencing is a loaded word on its own, but that's the only thing that speaks for your case because silencing can come from conspiracy. But ignoring and marginalizing is not the conspiracy. So if you look at the context, the documentary seems to claim that the voice of dissent is downplayed because of HBO's influence on the media. No conspiracy there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, StepStark said: They also claim someone's ignoring and marginalizing that same voice of dissent. So when you put everything in the context, it makes more sense. I'll grant you that silencing is a loaded word on its own, but that the only thing that speaks for your case because silencing can come from conspiracy. But ignoring and marginalizing is not the conspiracy. So if you look at the context, the documentary seems to claim that the voice of dissent is downplayed because of HBO's influence on the media. No conspiracy there. But the ability to influence all media is a conspiracy in itself, because its claiming that HBO is able to conspire with media companies to downplay the voice of dissent, but we don't know about it. Its a claim they emptily throw out and but cannot substantiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Just now, Channel4s-JonSnow said: But the ability to influence media is a conspiracy in itself, because its claiming that HBO is able to conspire with media companies to downplay the voice of dissent, but we don't know about it. Its a claim they emptily throw out and but cannot substantiate. No it isn't conspiracy. That's your false claim. You are presenting it as something it isn't, just so you can say that the show is attacked for no reason and with no evidence. But it isn't a conspiracy. When someone is sending gifts and gifts to reporters, and organizes special events for them, then it's not a conspiracy. It is the influence of powerful corporation. If you don't get that, then it's really not surprising you think we're all just ranters and tribesmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anythingatall Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 hour ago, StepStark said: No it isn't conspiracy. That's your false claim. You are presenting it as something it isn't, just so you can say that the show is attacked for no reason and with no evidence. But it isn't a conspiracy. When someone is sending gifts and gifts to reporters, and organizes special events for them, then it's not a conspiracy. It is the influence of powerful corporation. If you don't get that, then it's really not surprising you think we're all just ranters and tribesmen. I guess my question is why bother making a documentary about it? Why this specifically? From what I understand this is common practice, it even has a name - promotion. The blurb for this documentary does imply that GOT is different in some way, it actually states that GOT is 'special' in its treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Just now, Anythingatall said: I guess my question is why bother making a documentary about it? Why this specifically? From what I understand this is common practice, it even has a name - promotion. The blurb for this documentary does imply that GOT is different in some way, it actually states that GOT is 'special' in its treatment. Well, the Serbian journalists said that GOT is special and that no show was ever promoted that strongly. And on top of that you have the reaction of Newsday guy which was very surprising and unusual and is definitely not ordinary reaction of a TV critic talking about a TV show. So there you have it. I don't know why Miodrag made that documentary, but I think he could have made his questions harsher. That's my complaint on the documentary, because that would make his point more obvious. But I see no problem in asking those questions he asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anythingatall Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 hour ago, StepStark said: Well, the Serbian journalists said that GOT is special and that no show was ever promoted that strongly. And on top of that you have the reaction of Newsday guy which was very surprising and unusual and is definitely not ordinary reaction of a TV critic talking about a TV show. So there you have it. I don't know why Miodrag made that documentary, but I think he could have made his questions harsher. That's my complaint on the documentary, because that would make his point more obvious. But I see no problem in asking those questions he asked. Fair enough. I think my confusion stems from the fact that somebody bothered to make this thing in the first place. At least if there is a hint of a conspiracy then it has some sort of point. Otherwise it just seems like a giant waste of time. At least the Red Letter Media ones are funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Once a show achieve the level of popularity GoT had after its first season, it really doesn't need positive reviews, paid or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 hour ago, StepStark said: No it isn't conspiracy. That's your false claim. You are presenting it as something it isn't, just so you can say that the show is attacked for no reason and with no evidence. But it isn't a conspiracy. When someone is sending gifts and gifts to reporters, and organizes special events for them, then it's not a conspiracy. It is the influence of powerful corporation. If you don't get that, then it's really not surprising you think we're all just ranters and tribesmen. But he's the one suggesting that HBO is able to control 'The Media' (whatever the hell that means). Its a 'conspiracy' by HBO to control the media. Its an unsubstantiated claim that all the reviews for GoT ignore critical dissent because HBO stops them from doing it. I honestly hope you aren't suggesting that HBO can control all of the media and reviews for Game of Thrones and have been able to do it for 6 years, or that they can potentially do that through the power of nights out and the occasional gift! And nowhere in the documentary does he come close to revealing that HBO have done anything like that. They have one Serbian reporter saying she got some nights out when GoT first came out and sometimes the office got gifts in the post (every company does this btw). Then you have Verne who loves Game of Thrones but there is zero suggestion HBO have influenced him (he was the same with Breaking Bad, not a HBO tv show) , and some French critic who merely mentions that french people are more critical of mainstream products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: But he's the one suggesting that HBO is able to control 'The Media' (whatever the hell that means). Its a 'conspiracy' by HBO to control the media. Its an unsubstantiated claim that all the reviews for GoT ignore critical dissent because HBO stops them from doing it. I honestly hope you aren't suggesting that HBO can control all of the media and reviews for Game of Thrones and have been able to do it for 6 years, or that they can potentially do that through the power of nights out and the occasional gift! And nowhere in the documentary does he come close to revealing that HBO have done anything like that. They have one Serbian reporter saying she got some nights out when GoT first came out and sometimes the office got gifts in the post (every company does this btw). Then you have Verne who loves Game of Thrones but there is zero suggestion HBO have influenced him (he was the same with Breaking Bad, not a HBO tv show) , and some French critic who merely mentions that french people are more critical of mainstream products. You're twisting their words again. Nobody was talking about controlling. That would be conspiracy and then you would be right. But that's ot what they are talking about. They are talking about influencing the media. And if you don't think the media can be influenced by a big corporation, that's mind-blowing, sorry to say. So once more, it isn't about controlling as you claim, but about influencing. There is important difference between the two and the difference seems to escape you. And you keep saying that every company does that. But it's about the extent. As Serbian journalist says, the extent to which HBO goes with GOT is something she never saw before. It is the extent what makes GOT special. If you think that's irrelevant, that's you exercising your right to not care about things that are important. And no, he wasn't the same with Breaking Bad. As I remember, he didn't say that he has trouble with objectivity with Breaking Bad. He only said that about Game of Thrones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anythingatall Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 hour ago, StepStark said: And you keep saying that every company does that. But it's about the extent. As Serbian journalist says, the extent to which HBO goes with GOT is something she never saw before. It is the extent what makes GOT special. If you think that's irrelevant, that's you exercising your right to not care about things that are important. What is it relevant to though? How is it important? Why does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, Anythingatall said: What is it relevant to though? How is it important? Why does it matter? It matters to HBO. They thought it's important to promote GOT this way. I don't see how can that be unimportant if we're analyzing GOT reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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