Are both Umbers "in" with Wyman? Is Mance the key?

[Stannis is the man....nis]

I was thinking recently about what Wyman real plans are and I've been thinking that he has more friends in WF that we know of. I know some talk about Wyman having told Lady Dustin about the Starks boys being alive and that is why she was in the crypt but what if he told others? What if both Mors and Hother know about this plan as well? The key to why I think that is Mance, Mance went looking for Arya around Long Lake which is in Umber territory and the next time we see him is at WF when he is let in only because Wyman conveniently doesn't have a singer with the musicians he brought. The when Theon and FArya escape Mors is right there to greet them. I submit that this is not coincidence and that Mors found Mance and Mance told him only about his mission to Jon which made it's way back to Wyman leading Mance being allowed in due to a "missing singer". Mance inside WF can cause the distraction that Wyman needed so that they can save FArya with Mors right on the outside to save her. So with Davos on his way to retrieve Rickon in order to trump Roose's claim but on top of that they remove Roose's claim by getting rid of FArya leaving Roose exposed. Wyman has a friend on the isnide working against Roose and also benefits from having Mors in on this as someone will be needed to eventually inform Stannis of this so Wyman is killed for "executing" Davos. With this I say that Hother and Mors are working together with Wyman and using Mance to make their plan work.

[The Drunkard]

If that were the case you'd expect Mors to send word to Stannis that Wyman isn't his enemy, either with Theon and the bankers or preferably much earlier. In the sample chapter though Stannis still lists "Lord Too-Fat" as one of his foes. And it wasn't necessarily a coincidence that Theon and Jeyne ran into Mors so quickly, since they were escaping in the direction of the drumming and horns hoping to reach Stannis' advance guard.

Also, Mors really hates the wildlings. They stole his daughter and one of the conditions he gave to Stannis was that he wanted Mance's skull.

[Free Northman Reborn]

With hints as to Mors's fate, based on some recent image enhancements of a screenshot of a chapter Martin was working on for the Battle of Ice, I am starting to wonder whether Hother won't come into greater prominence from an Umber perspective. And in that vein, I wonder whether his history as a partially trained Maester will become relevant somehow. Could he have some involvement in manipulating some messages sent via raven, for example?

[Stannis is the man....nis]

7 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

With hints as to Mors's fate, based on some recent image enhancements of a screenshot of a chapter Martin was working on for the Battle of Ice, I am starting to wonder whether Hother won't come into greater prominence from an Umber perspective. And in that vein, I wonder whether his history as a partially trained Maester will become relevant somehow. Could he have some involvement in manipulating some messages sent via raven, for example?

I didn't hear about this what is it?

[Free Northman Reborn]

26 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

I didn't hear about this what is it?

On the "Ultimate Winds of Winter resource" thread in the Winds of Winter sub-forum, they did some analysis of a blurry screenshot of Martin's computer from some TV segment he did. There are some potential hints about what happens in the Battle of Ice, but its kind of speculative, because the magnification is not very clear so only a few words were kind of figured out.

If it even applies anymore after so many years.

[Clegane'sPup]

I’m glad you brought this up. It has bugged me a long time as to why Mance ended up at WF instead of looking for the “girl on the horse.” The wedding was supposed to take place in Barrowton. That’s where people were summoned to. Roose changed his mind and had everyone moved to WF.

According to Theon The Mance showed after everyone is settled in. Theon says He[Mance] calls himself a bard. In truth he's more a pander. Lord Manderly had brought musicians from White Harbor, but none were singers, so when Abel turned up at the gates with a lute and six women, he had been made welcome."

I think the northmen are concerned about the Stark girl being wed to Ramsey for a bunch of reasons, especially because of what happened with the Hornwood woman. I also think some of the northmen might be aware that the “girl” is an imposter. Crowsfood did sort of interrogate Jeyne in the Theon preview chapter.

So, I asked myself why try to save an imposter? I mean the Mance might very well know the “Stark girl is an imposter. Mance did tell Jon that he attended the feast for King Robert and that he made passing note of Lord Eddard's children and the wolf pups that ran at their heels."

If I remember correctly Manderly already knows the Bolton’s lied about what happened at WF. But there no proof or evidence. If Theon & Jeyne are saved/rescued and if Davos gets his hands on Rickon that would mean a world of hurt for the House of Bolton.

Throw in the mix the rumors that Manderly had rejected Robett Glover’s plea for men. Yet Robett is the man who lead Davos through the secret passages of Wolf’s Den to meet with Manderly.

Now you got me again thinking that the man (hooded or not) Theon crossed paths with is Robett and that there is a huge conspiracy going on. And where do those ships Jory told Umber & Manderly to work on fit in.

[Shireen Purratheon]

I tend to the think that Stannis is in league with Mors who is in league with Hother who is in league with Wyman. By the transitive property, Stannis is in league with Wyman, but neither of them know that yet.

Mance getting in because of Wyman is interesting and something I'd never thought of before. I read an idea just this week about how one of the spearwives was Mors' daughter that had gotten carried off, and that Mance had stopped in to Last Hearth see Mors and to tell him "hey, your daughter's okay, let's work together." Mors would tell Hother who would tell Wyman that they need to get a singer into Winterfell, and that would reconcile Mors' hatred of wildlings with him working with Mance.

[Jon Fossoway]

The first time I read Dance, I got the feel that Hother is on a suicide mission. As much he says no Umber soldier will fight an Umber soldier, he's still on the besieged side, pledging his swords to the impopular Boltons. That's why he took the old men with him. With winter coming, their deaths in the battle of Ice doesn't matter much. In fact, according to northern culture, it will help. Mors, on the other hand, is commanding a lot of the new muscle left of the Umbers, and they matter the most in the coming winter, since it's up to them to carry on.

Same as Wyman Manderly, who took a small portion of his knights to Winterfell and no hostages, dissobeying a direct command of the thoughtful Roose, and actually upsetting him. That's a huge sign. Roose being upset. All the while, he secured his heir to be sent back to White Harbor. Wyman is hinted as having a sickly blueish skin colour so I wouldn't be surprised if he was sick all the while and knowing his time was almost up, that's why he rushed into securing Wylis. These guys, although supporting nominally the Boltons, brought forces completely expendable (even their own lives) to Winterfell.

Now, I don't think Hother is working with Mors, but he ain't trying to stop him either. He will deffend Winterfell if necessary and he thinks he will die. He probably will, as Wyman and the Manderly host in Winterfell. 

The Battle of Ice will be bloody messy, and even cool characters as Wyman and Hother will die fighting WITH the Boltons. Probably doing the less effort they can.

Then I read some cool theories about secret alliances, and I thought I was too naive to think the above.