The Targareyns and the others + ptwp

[JRRStark]

Looking at what we know from the books and the novellas, it would appear the Targaryens knew about the ptwp. Indeed JaehaerysII forced Aerys and Rhaella into marrying each other because the ptwp was to come from their line. Summerhall may have happened because of the prophecy. So there is evidence that the Targaryens were trying to produce the ptwp for several generations. Indeed that has been speculated for the reason for Aegon invasion in some quarters. Rheagar was certainly convinced he was the ptwp at one stage and Danys vision in the house of the undying indicated to  her knew that he must sire another to be that one or complete the prophecy, hence R+L = J. Given that they know the prophecy, they must also know about the others and the reason for the ptwp. So why have they done nothing in all the years of their reign to protect against the others and strengthen the nights watch. It would seem the opposite is the case. The watch has come to near ruin under their reign and most people even in the North consider them to be a myth. When Gaeron was executed by Ned he even seemed to dismiss it. Is it possible to know of the ptwp and not know of the others. Aemon was aware of the ptwp and AAR so I cannot understand how you can have one without the other (forgive the pun). So my question why did the Targareyns do seemingly nothing to prepare for the inevitable battle that the ptwp was suppose to save the world from?

[Dex drako]

it's completely possible for know about the TPTWP but not about the others.

the prophecy don't outright say TPTWP will fight the others it says TPTWP will save the world from some great unnamed evil. 

[spauldo17]

does the prophecy say that the PTWP has to be full blood targaryen?  or just in some way come from that line?

[BricksAndSparrows]

I'm hoping we get to learn just what exactly this prophecy says. It's gotta be pretty ground breaking. I am going to be disappointed if it just says that there is going to be another long night and tPtwP is the one who's gonna save the day. That would disappoint me.

I'm hoping there is gonna be a little bit of a twist.

[Lurid Jester]

3 hours ago, spauldo17 said:

does the prophecy say that the PTWP has to be full blood targaryen?  or just in some way come from that line?

I think it's just that they will be descended from Aerys and ...uh, his sister/queen/wife.  Can't remember her name. 

[Jasemina]

doesnt melisandre look for the ptwp/azor ahai too and thinks its stannis? is there anywhere in the prophecy regarding ptwp will come from the targaryen line?

[Minuteman]

I think it goes back to the NQ/NK tale and the Amethyst Empress/Bloodstone Prince from the Great Empire of the Dawn. I think that both tales are the same but distorted with time and culture but the kernel of the two are consistent. Targs practice incest. There hasn't been any description as to why only that they do and the Faith tolerates it because Targs are Valyrian and therefore special. So let's assume that it is tradition handed down from Valyria and from there back before memory. But where does it come from? I think that the Amethyst Empress/NQ and the Bloodstone Prince/R'hllor (so called, who knows who/what they actually were) were supposed to have produced an heir between the two and that progeny would be the next ruler of the Empire. The child born of that (incestuous) union is the PtwP. But the Amethyst Empress/NQ took a human lover and bore his children instead. From this pairing we get the Starks. The Bloodstone Prince/R'hllor killed his sister and her lover in jealousy, usurped her rule, and begat his own children in Essos from whom Valyria (and hence the Targs) originated. Incest was the Valyrian tradition passed down from their ancient and magical sire who was supposed to have produced and heir with his sister but instead chose to restart the tradition anew with his offspring by a partner other than his sister. So the bloodlines remained apart with the Starks in Westeros and the Valyrians in Essos. Until Rhaegar fathered a child with Lyanna finally uniting the two bloodlines and thereby producing the Prince long ago promised to ascend the throne vacated by his distant forebears. The Others are actually simply the ice equivalent of dragons. So Jon is their Prince as well. And "the dragon" is metaphorically the ancient bloodline making the three heads fire (Rhaegar/Targs), ice (Lyanna/Starks), and the union of ice and fire (Jon).

[Dex drako]

8 hours ago, Jasemina said:

doesnt melisandre look for the ptwp/azor ahai too and thinks its stannis? is there anywhere in the prophecy regarding ptwp will come from the targaryen line?

no but the ghost of high heart said the TPTWP would come from the line of Aerys and rhaella targaryen 
 

[bent branch]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 3:04 PM, Jasemina said:

doesnt melisandre look for the ptwp/azor ahai too and thinks its stannis? is there anywhere in the prophecy regarding ptwp will come from the targaryen line?

Actually, yes. Not only is there what the GoHH said (which restricted the PTWP to Aerys and Rhaella's line), but also Melisandre and Aemon discuss the issue and both agree that the PTWP must come from the Targaryens. This is pretty much a settled issue in story, although people do like to debate it.

The only real question left is whether all three heads of the dragon must also come from Aerys and Rhaella's line. If so, those three heads must be Dany, Jon and Aegon (not fake), as those are the only three people who meet that criteria. If all three heads of the dragon don't have to be of Aerys and Rhaella's line then other configurations are possible. 

[Brian Rioghbhardan]

On 9/8/2016 at 3:29 AM, Dex drako said:

no but the ghost of high heart said the TPTWP would come from the line of Aerys and rhaella targaryen 

@JRRStark  I think you raise an important question and I think what Dex said may answer your question or at least raise some further questions. If you recall the Ghost of the High Heart was the strange little witch that Arya met with the brothers with out banners. Based on the description of her and our later encounters with the Children of the forrest it's become clear that she is one of the few Children of the forrest still living in south. We also know from the stories of King Aegon V aka Egg's court that his eldest son Duncan married a commoner and that when they came to live at court his wife brought with her an old woods witch and that their was gossip that she was one of the children of the forrest.  Based on what the Ghost of high heart said to arya we know that she was that woodwitch. So now we have one of the children of the forrest living at Court and conversing with the Targ Royalty for a number of years. While we don't know if they knew that she was one of the Children of the Forrest, we do know that the reason Aery's father married him to his sister is because TGOHH told him that the TPTWP would be born of their line and that even the current king Aegon V seems to have accepted the marriage for this reason. Not only this but Barristan actually blames TGOHH for the tragedy at Summerhall, so it seems she was not only in attendance but she may have played a role in the strange black magic ritual that Aegon V did in order to wake dragons from stone which lead to a massive fire that wiped out most of Targ family attending. So yeah, it's kind of strange that the Targ Royal family would start paring off their Children based on the word of some crazy old wood witch and possibly put togeather some kind of dangerous ritual because of her. So chances are they must have known she was one of the Children of the Forrest otherwise it's strange that she'd have such influence over their affairs.

Now we all know that the Children of the forrest are VERY MUCH aware of the existence of the White Walkers and their looming threat and seem to be intent on stopping them. And so if one of the children of the forest was granted access to the Ruling family of westeros I think it would make a lot of sense for her to warn them of the impeding doom that westeros is faceing and to council them on measures that they must take to stop it. We know from Historical sources that late into his reign, perhaps around the time TGOHH showed up, Aegon V started became very intent to find a way to ressurect dragons and Barristan states that the ritual that took place at summerhall, which  involved dragon eggs. Throw in the fact they married aerys to Rhaella because she told them they'd birth TPTWP and Rhaegon's weird obsession with prophesy then yeah I think they probably knew or she told them and the actions they took were a result of that. The question is whether Aemon would know or not since he was sent to the wall long before TGOHH showed up. Another question is how much of this might have played into Mad King Aery's own actions as king? The world of Ice and Fire tells us that at the start of the rule he told Ned's father that he planned to reinforce the Nights Watch and even build a second wall for added protection (granted he never followed through), also if you read the world of ice and fire it shows that much of Aery's mood/insanity was directly tied to his wife's constant miscarriages, still births or children who died within a few months of being born. With each childs death he grew crazier and more eratic, when Viserys was born and survived briefly grew calmer. Given that Aerys II had already sired an heir with Rhaegar it's kind of strange that he seemed far more concerned with producing more children then he was with the affairs of his kingdom or Roberts Rebellion. Perhaps it's because he knew that none of it fucking mattered because if he wasn't able to produce the TPTWP then all of westeros would be wiped away by frozen ice monsters. Perhaps it was this looming apocalypse and his continued failure at fullfilling the prophesy needed to stop it is what drove him mad. Not saying he wouldn't have sucked as a ruler anyways, just saying that is a lot of pressure. 

[Blackfyre Bastard]

I have argued before that Bloodraven knew, because of his greensight, that the PTWP would be born from the line of Daeron II and that's one of the reasons he was so staunch in his support against Daemon Blackfyre and his successors.