Do we REALLY know Dominic Bolton was Bethany Bolton-née-Ryswell's son?

[M_Tootles]

1 hour ago, Jak Scaletongue said:

<maybe Ned never had a mother analogy.

By that reasoning, nothing GRRM omitted was intentionally omitted for any actual purpose. Obviously sometimes it's to hide something or get us to assume something false, and sometimes it has no purpose.

 

1 hour ago, Jak Scaletongue said:

 

Domeric *could* be the son of either the first or second wife - but I feel like GRRM just overlooked telling us *which* wife because Domeric's mother is completely irrelevant.

OK. And I don't think that possibly explains why he omitted it despite having having lots of reasons, since a first blush reading IMPLIES (which certain people take as the same thing as saying) that he's Bethany's. There's no reason for the text to imply that if it doesn't matter. If your dramatic purpose in omitting something is to say "hey, this doesn't matter," you don't then imply there's an answer. And if he IS Bethany's, why doesn't Roose say so in the logical place for him to say so?

 

1 hour ago, Jak Scaletongue said:

 Domeric, even dead, has more bearing on Ramsay's story than either of his potential mothers.  All that WE, as readers, need to know is that Domeric came out of a woman who was married to Roose Bolton and then died 15ish years later - before the story even starts.  Which of the wives he came out of is irrelevant.

Not really, not if House Dustin isn't really tied to House Bolton by marriage. Which they're not, really, if Dom is the Ryswell's, given that Barbrey doesn't have a kid that's half Ryswell. I mean, I get that they "kinda sorta" are, and clearly it's set up so most are "none the wiser" given that tie, but it's just so damn fishy.

 

1 hour ago, Jak Scaletongue said:

On that note, I'd certainly LIKE to be told who Domeric's mother is conclusively.  But I feel like that "reveal" is going to be of the underwhelming type we experienced when GRRM realized we gave a fuck about Ned's mom.

Who knows how underwhelming that will prove to be.

 

1 hour ago, Jak Scaletongue said:

**I know it wasn't directed at me, but I would like to note that I *did* read the OP.  It's fishy, I'll admit, but I still think GRRM just overlooked it.  We thought the lack of Ned's mom being mentioned was fishy too, and that was completely irrelevant to anything in the current story (besides clarifying why there wasn't more Stark cousins running around - they closed up the family tree with a marriage between cousins).

Wasn't saying you hadn't read the OP, was saying weirwood hand't. As I said, I think I've figured out what's really going on here and someday I'll talk about it. And I honestly didn't see any of it coming when I noticed what I merely saw as an odd omission.

[bent branch]

2 hours ago, M_Tootles said:

Sure it does. It's a Chekhov's gun. House Dustin doesn't get a listing. Why? "True born son" doesn't indicate he's Bethany's son. It indicate he's Roose's son by a wife. Of which he had two pre-fat Walda. One of whom is pointedly not named. As the OP makes clear, Roose's verbiage oddly avoids any mention of a familial lesson between Dom and Bethany, despite having ample opportunity to do so, and despite it being a natural explanatory detail one might include when, y'know, EXPLAINING things, as Roose is doing to Theon.

Subsequent to the post I realized it was very, very important to the story (in a way I never dreamed of until it smacked me in the eyes). It's been worked into my Mother of Theories post/book I've been working on for the past year. Slid right into the slot I didn't realize was sitting there waiting for it.

Once you're ready to reveal how it is pertinent I'll be able to make a better judgment.

[Jak Scaletongue]

I understand the impulse to question whether GRRM *intentionally* omitted something or not.  I subscribe to a LOT of crackpots that rely on precisely that.  But this *particular* instance smells to me like "Lyarra Stark Syndrome" on GRRM's part than an intentional omission.  He did *imply* who Domeric's mother was, and at the time of writing I feel like GRRM assumed (wrongly, as he did with Ned's mom) that it would be enough.  Maybe it WILL play out as important and I'll be wrong - whatever.  I have a seven year old, I'm used to it.  But nothing in your OP has convinced me that it's anything more than GRRM overlooking a dead mother that didn't die giving birth to a main character.  And I feel like the only reason Barbrey Dustin is on Roose's side at all is because she "hated" the Starks (I think Barbrey Dustin's gonna parallel Theon; they both "hated" the Starks yet wanted to be one and have done their damnedest to bring the House down yet don't get the satisfaction they had hoped for, etc...).  Who knows, maybe once you've decided to share what you think is really going on I'll get it, but for now, *personally,* it seems like it was just overlooked.

 

Now, to quote myself:

2 hours ago, Jak Scaletongue said:

**I know it wasn't directed at me, but I would like to note that I *did* read the OP.  It's fishy, I'll admit, but I still think GRRM just overlooked it.  We thought the lack of Ned's mom being mentioned was fishy too, and that was completely irrelevant to anything in the current story (besides clarifying why there wasn't more Stark cousins running around - they closed up the family tree with a marriage between cousins).

Not sure how I could have made that clearer.....

[M_Tootles]

50 minutes ago, Jak Scaletongue said:

 But this *particular* instance smells to me like "Lyarra Stark Syndrome" on GRRM's part than an intentional omission.  He did *imply* who Domeric's mother was, and at the time of writing I feel like GRRM assumed (wrongly, as he did with Ned's mom) that it would be enough.

It's precisely because of the implication without confirmation that I felt it looked suspicious. Otherwise it's Ned's mother, as you say. ALL he had to do was have Roose make an utterly natural reference to "her nephew" or whatever when talking about Barbrey and it's confirmed. Which is particularly called for given that the purpose of him talking is to inform Ramsay/Theon of what's what. As the OP says, the language is instead oddly distancing and consistent with Roose finding it curious/amusing that Barbrey likes an unrelated boy so much.

50 minutes ago, Jak Scaletongue said:

 

Now, to quote myself:

Not sure how I could have made that clearer.....

ha. was just reiterating.

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 3/17/2017 at 4:45 PM, M_Tootles said:

Huh.

I mean, do we really know that the great other isn't the bastard child of Megatron and Optimus Prime. I mean, the books don't explicitly say it isn't................. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

13 hours ago, M_Tootles said:

This speak volumes about your (mis)perception of what GRRM's doing in ASOIAF

 

Ditto. "The obvious conclusion", so I guess it MUST be true. No. Look with your eyes. Arya doesn't get Syrio's lesson, either (yet). It's ok.

 

Yep. That would be a clue alright. In a children's book.

Again: yes, those would be "clues". Neon signs, even.

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

As to why Roose does not specifically say that Domeric was Barbey's nephew. 

Quote

Those leeches that he loves so well sucked all the passions out of him years ago. He does not love, he does not hate, he does not grieve. This is a game to him, mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men. You and me, these Freys, Lord Manderly, his plump new wife, even his bastard, we are but his playthings."

 

Barbrey describes a man devoid of feelings, I think it is simply in keeping with his character; that he does not think to specify Barbrey's blood tie to Domeric. It isn't something that he see's as inmportant.

Her feelings about Roose here seem to be disdainful, a lesson learnt through experience. That he didn't respond to a death which she felt ought to have affected him deeply. Now that could be Bethany's death. She mentions his new wife is but a plaything. But she also mentions hate and Ramsey. It implies that she feels Roose not only failed to love and grieve but also hate at some appropriate point. Bethany died from a fever, but Domeric is rumoured to have been poisioned by Ramsey. 

This man whom Barbrey describes here seems exactly the kind of man to absently omit to mention the actual blood tie. He doesn't see blood as important, he's just amused that Barbrey had any fondness for the boy at all.  

And yes, up until the release of TWOIAF people were creaming themselves trying to work out who Ned's "mysterious" mother was.