So did Shireen's sacrifice postpone winter or not?

[Darkstream]

44 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

The sacrifice causing the mystical winter to delay is something that should be "quite simple" and "self-explanatory", like right away? Are you really sure what you're saying there m8?


And yes, they did mention "winter" in S5 - Ramsay to Sansa, and Stannis several times at the Wall and then after leaving.
As I said - there's a nice thread for talking nonsense "without repercussions", it's named that way for a reason.
 

No, that shouldn't be simple, but to the viewer, it should be clear whether or not it was or is winter. Or whether the sacrifice actually did something. This is something that you all can't even agree on. Lol.

[Darkstream]

You want to know why Stannis sacrificed his daughter, while a stone's throw away from Winterfell, in light flurrys? It had nothing to do with the snow, or the onset of a mystical winter. It was because d$d creatively thought it would make sense, because they wanted to emotionally manipulate their audiences by burning a little girl. It's that simple.

[Pink Fat Rast]

45 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

No, that shouldn't be simple, but to the viewer, it should be clear whether or not it was or is winter. Or whether the sacrifice actually did something. This is something that you all can't even agree on. Lol.

As I said - some character (in the North but not at the Wall) should've noticed the winter "strangely going back", if that was indeed something unusual.

If it wasn't that unusual, it'd be more of a leeches scenario and wouldn't be a problem if it were only brought up in the next season. If it won't be brought up at all, then it'll be weird; if it'll be brought up as "hey remember when the winter scaled back and we were REALLY SHOCKED BY THAT", that'll also be weird.

So far though, no obvious writing flaws along the lines of "why the fuck isn't anyone discussing the zombies with Alliser and Olly" have been committed.

but to the viewer, it should be clear whether or not it was or is winter.

It WAS winter - if you can't pay attention during the show, at least pay attention to the posts in a 2 page thread.

Or whether the sacrifice actually did something.

It most probably was responsible for the cold going back and allowing the army to proceed (or desert, respectively).

Whether it had an even larger effect, continuing to warm things up all the way until BoB, is another question and is the one this thread is about if you hadn't noticed - and yes, it can TOTALLY stay ambiguous, for a white or forever, but the ambiguity should be addressed in the show rather than just be left hanging in the air;
and that it hasn't been so far, is at this point still salvageable.

[Pink Fat Rast]

48 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

You want to know why Stannis sacrificed his daughter, while a stone's throw away from Winterfell, in light flurrys?

Not enough of a "stone's throw" apparently, otherwise they could've just marched on to WF (and DEFINITELY lose considering their limbs were falling off like in the Pirates sequels).

 

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It had nothing to do with the snow, or the onset of a mystical winter.

Even though that's exactly what happened in the episode.

 

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It was because d$d creatively thought it would make sense, because they wanted to emotionally manipulate their audiences by burning a little girl. It's that simple.

So.. liking the "repercussions" so far?

[A Ghost of Someone]

1 hour ago, Darkstream said:

You want to know why Stannis sacrificed his daughter, while a stone's throw away from Winterfell, in light flurrys? It had nothing to do with the snow, or the onset of a mystical winter. It was because d$d creatively thought it would make sense, because they wanted to emotionally manipulate their audiences by burning a little girl. It's that simple.

lol, nailed it.

[Pink Fat Rast]

He nailed nothing:

27 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Not enough of a "stone's throw" apparently, otherwise they could've just marched on to WF (and DEFINITELY lose considering their limbs were falling off like in the Pirates sequels).

 

Even though that's exactly what happened in the episode.

 

So.. liking the "repercussions" so far?

 

[Pink Fat Rast]

lol

[Darkstream]

59 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

<snip>

if you can't pay attention during the show, 

<snip>

Well, you got me there. It is an arduous task staying attentive for a full episode. And before you go there, don't you worry yourself to an ulser over it, I have my reasons to continue watching. 

54 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Not enough of a "stone's throw" apparently, otherwise they could've just marched on to WF.

<snip>

Uh yeah, that's the whole point. Everyone else in the show rips around the continent as if they had a jet pack, but Stannis needs to burn his only daughter, and heir, in order to travel the distance it took others less than a day to travel.

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So.. liking the "repercussions" so far?

Ha!! You think this is my first trip to the rodeo? You call that repercussions? Like I stated in the other thread we were conversing in, I've been there, done that. I've heard much more convincing exuses, all though not very convincing at all, than you have provided. There's always some fan fiction story attempting to explain away the flaws in the show. It's just too bad d$d do not put in the effort that their fans do.

[Pink Fat Rast]

1 minute ago, Darkstream said:

Well, you got me there. It is an arduous task staying attentive for a full episode. 

[...]

I've been there, done that. I've heard much more convincing exuses, all though not very convincing at all, than you have provided. There's always some fan fiction story attempting to explain away the flaws in the show. It's just too bad d$d do not put in the effort that their fans do.

You've "been there, done that" - done what, make poor bad arguments because you couldn't be bothered to pay attention to anything?

You've heard "excuses" response to your valid sound critcisisms which were based on your lack of attention?

By "fan fiction explanations", you mean explanations that were in the show but you missed because it was too arduous?

Uh yeah, that's the whole point. Everyone else in the show rips around the continent as if they had a jet pack, but Stannis needs to burn his only daughter, and heir, in order to travel the distance it took others less than a day to travel.

Varys didn't have any obstacles to overcome, it just should've taken him time to cross over - which everyone keeps saying was just a time jump in the show, though it should've been conveyed better.

Who else jumped around the continent, LF? Was there a contradiction between how long it should've taken him and how little time evidently passed in some other place? Even if so, that was still about nothing more than the AMOUNT OF TIME for them to cross those distances.


Stannis' problem wasn't so much the time, it's that they were all freezing and starving and already in no condition to fight at their camp - let alone after a potential march to WF. Noticed those soldiers that were sitting around, barely able to move?

To the extent time was an issue, it was more about "are we all gonna be rekt in whatever time it takes us to get there" - which means if you did a time jump like with Varys, you'd find them all lying dead on the ground, rather than just standing in formation in front of WF.


I was gonna say that since Davos was suggesting they went back to the Wall instead they couldn't have crossed 4/5ths of the distance already and it was more like a half - but now you admitted you just made the "rock throw's away" up anyway so I guess that's that. 

 

[Cas Stark]

Well, they did walk to Winterfell after all, so they couldn't have been that far when Stannis burned his daughter, but then Winterfell in the show seems to be much, much closer to the Wall in season 5 than in season 1, based on the time it took Mel to ride there on the one remaining horse and for Brienne and Sansa to get there.

But I don't think burning Shireen and it's affect on the weather will ever be brought up again in the show.

[Pink Fat Rast]

There's a chance it might actually, becase Mel's the only survivor from Stannis' group and therefore the only one to have been there "both times" and have a larger picture of the events - so it's possible this is gonna come up when she reappears again, especially since that was the last thing she was seen discussing on the show.

Unlike the whole Olly/Alliser thing which, yeah, no one's gonna say "remember after HH when you were talking to those cunts for 2 hours and they just wouldn't listen and then they stabbed you?" - now THAT's a closed book.

But yeah the show's capable of any oversight, so that's possible too.


As for the walking/riding, did they show them walk all the way there in real time? Cause if there was a cut, you know what that means...

[Cas Stark]

What larger picture does Mel have?  She burned Shireen and that lost Stannis his army and now he's dead. He wasn't AA.  She resurrected Jon but doesn't know how or why it worked.  What does she have to offer but the fire visions that she so very, very clearly has no idea how to interpret?  So, no, I don't see any of that being brought up again in the show.  

Arya will probably kill her when she 'reappears' again or Davos will, someone will.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

OP thinks Shireen was killed for the plot.

There is no plot.

[Pink Fat Rast]

26 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

What larger picture does Mel have?  She burned Shireen and that lost Stannis his army and now he's dead.

Saw the ice melt, didn't really tell about that when confronted - also, having been at WF covered in snow before losing against Bolton, and then back again without the snow this time winning against Bolton, can put a vivid image into your head that's gonna make you ask questions or draw conclusions.

No other character was really in the same position - Ramsay saw both battles but had no reason to give any thought to it; the other Notherners weren't there the 1st time and probably just went "eh, got warmer again cool"; Snow was at the wall the whole time where it's always snowing.

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So, no, I don't see any of that being brought up again in the show. Arya will probably kill her when she 'reappears' again or Davos will, someone will.  

Fine - when that disappointing hack "resolution" happens on TV and you all start complaining about the unsatisfying hack writing, you heard it here first

[Pink Fat Rast]

17 minutes ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

OP thinks Shireen was killed for the plot.

There is no plot.

DAE all D& I mean D$$D care about is shocking moments?

[A Ghost of Someone]

Where Stannis was encamped and so desperate to burn Shireen was basically base camp for Jon's Army before the BOTB, he left there to parlay with Ramsay the day before and the day they fought. A short walk. This was utter rubbish.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

Yes. That and saving budget for the "big action scenes" by killing all the side characters(less actors on a payroll) and avoiding any CGI costs for anything but dragons (thats why ghost wasnt in the battle of the bastards and wun wun didnt have a weapon etc).

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

2 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

DAE all D& I mean D$$D care about is shocking moments?

Yes. That and saving budget for the "big action scenes" by killing all the side characters(less actors on a payroll) and avoiding any CGI costs for anything but dragons (thats why ghost wasnt in the battle of the bastards and wun wun didnt have a weapon etc).

[Pink Fat Rast]

7 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Where Stannis was encamped and so desperate to burn Shireen was basically base camp for Jon's Army before the BOTB, he left there to parlay with Ramsay the day before and the day they fought. A short walk. This was utter rubbish.

Maybe there was a plot hole between how far that place was supposed to be from WF in s5 and then in s6 - point remains, they were in a situation where:
-they had just enough rations/etc. left to make it to WF and fight
-the loss of the food PLUS the cold meant they couldn't make it, or wouldn't be in the condition to fight when they arrived there

So saying that Stannis was "desperate to burn" Shireen just because there's some logical fuck up with the distances or whatever, is absurd.

[Pink Fat Rast]

7 hours ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

Yes. That and saving budget for the "big action scenes" by killing all the side characters(less actors on a payroll) and avoiding any CGI costs for anything but dragons (thats why ghost wasnt in the battle of the bastards and wun wun didnt have a weapon etc).

They saved money for big action scenes, but not for Wun Wun swinging a stick around? Okey dokey.