TRILOGY

What Are Your Season 8 Predictions?

203 posts in this topic

17 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Totally. It was a tough decision. But I think what Tormund is saying is that Mance made that decision thinking about his own respect and his own status as a leader - effectively pride. He didn't think how can I get my deal south of that wall even if i have to bend he knee.

Watch the scene between Mance and Jon again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3s4-VP3JcM

It was never about pride for Mance.

 

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12 minutes ago, Einheri said:

Watch the scene between Mance and Jon again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3s4-VP3JcM

It was never about pride for Mance.

 

That is what Mance says for sure. I don't doubt that. But then again who admits they don't want to do something because of pride? Its not the type of thing people are liable to say. 

And given that Tormund says its about pride, i think we are invited to at the very least be more skeptical of what Mance said. Maybe Tormund is wrong. But maybe not. We should question it. And Jon more importantly ends up bending the knee so we can assume that he agrees with Tormund. 

 

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2 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

That is what Mance says for sure. I don't doubt that. But then again who admits they don't want to do something because of pride? Its not the type of thing people are liable to say. 

And given that Tormund says its about pride, i think we are invited to at the very least be more skeptical of what Mance said. Maybe Tormund is wrong. But maybe not. We should question it. And Jon more importantly ends up bending the knee so we can assume that he agrees with Tormund. 

 

It's not about pride because most of the Free Folk would probably abandon him the moment he bent the knee to a southern king, and the rest would probably perish in the wars in the south, meaning that his people were pretty much screwed no matter the option he chose. Heck, by not bending the knee he arguable ended up saving more of them since Stannis opted to just hand them over to Jon's authority, and Jon turned out to be a great guy for the Free Folk.

For those reasons I think Tormund (or perhaps I should say the people writing the show since Tormund should know better) was just plain wrong in this instance. Jon's decision to bend the knee was stupid as well. He had already gotten what his people needed from Dany, and his  reasons for not bending the knee were as valid as Mance's reasons for not bending the knee to Stannis. Jon's too lucky that the White Walkers have breached the Wall, and that people have more important things to worry about than who rules the North because otherwise he'd have to face the backlash of his ridiculous decision. 

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