footie^3 with the feet

[Jon AS]

Lets start the MLS Retirement League threads going.

Uh, hasn't that always been one of the roles of the US league, whatever its name?

[Padraig]

Because you only have five spots (six in 2010) for over 50 nations, qualification for even the best NT's is always going to be problematic. IMO you need to build a tradition of 3 to 5 straight WC Finals qualifications to work your side's confidence and experience to the point that they will be able to win.

Well not quite the same but France didn't qualify for WC1994 before they won it in 98, so there is hope.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Uh, hasn't that always been one of the roles of the US league, whatever its name?

Not really. For awhile in the early aughts, they didn't really sign too many internationals, old or otherwise. We have begun to develop some good talent, Jozy Altidore, Maurice Edu, Freddy Adu, Taylor Twellman, and Eddie Johnson, but they will all be in Europe by 2010 if not sooner. So we're also a feeder league as well. We're going to have to raise the salary cap to 10 million if we're serious about keeping our talent and/or adding any real talent to the league to bolster TV viewership.

Well not quite the same but France didn't qualify for WC1994 before they won it in 98, so there is hope.

True. CIV looks to be the best chance for us Africans in 2010 but S. Africa may also surprise at home as France did in '98.

I think that one way to ensure that the best African sides make the WC every year would be to include African Cup results in the qualification process. More games will ensure fewer upsets. We need our best representing us every time.

Egypt just won their second game earlier against Sudan in the one-sided Nile Derby 3-0.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Interesting article on the possibility of second-generation Africans filling out England's NT. As second generation African myself, I hope this doesn't happen. I like to think that if I had progresed in football to the point where I might be capped by either the US or Nigeria that I would have chosen Nigeria since I do have dual-citizenship. This won't hurt Southern and North Africa who both have very entrenched domestic leagues and strong FA's but this would gut West African football teams.

Here's the article:

How England's revival could be driven by next generation to come out of Africa

SPECIAL REPORT By ROB DRAPER and DANIEL KING More by this author »

Arsenal, Chelsea and Newcastle are bracing themselves for an alarming African migration this weekend.

Everton, Portsmouth and Birmingham City are similarly vexed, pondering the departure of the heart their teams.

In all, 38 Premier League players, as well as six from the Football League, are expected to play in the African Cup Nations, which starts in Ghana on January 20 and lasts for three weeks.

The unprecedented number — around six per cent of the players in the current Premier League squads — leaving at the height of the season is a clear sign of the increasing importance African footballers in England.

It is a trend that, in the eyes of Arsene Wenger — who as Arsenal manager pioneered the introduction of talented young Africans into the top flight of English football — can only continue grow.

Wenger's belief that investment in players whose undoubted physical power and often explosive impact represents sound business and footballing sense will be compounded from next season when the number of African players allowed to ply their trade in Britain is likely to grow even higher as a result of new migration rules due to be introduced by the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith.

While that may ring alarms bells for those who fear that such a rise will serve only to restrict even more the opportunities available to homegrown talent, the effect on English football could be altogether different.

For as Fabio Capello begins his mission to revive a national side at their lowest ebb for 30 years, following the failure to qualify for the finals of Euro 2008, the possibility exists that the England team may yet be rescued from its steady decline by a clutch of young players with African roots and by the steady growth in the migration of footballing talent to this country.

Capello, who starts his new job as England coach tomorrow, has already shown that he is aware of the potential.

Yesterday the Italian took in Aston Villa's FA Cup third-round match against Manchester United to watch Villa forward Gabriel Agbonlahor, the latest hope to partner Wayne Rooney.

Agbonlahor,born in Birmingham and with a Nigerian father and Scottish mother, is likely to be in Capello's first squad for the friendly against Switzerland on February 6. Manchester City right-back Nedum Onuoha, who was born in Nigeria but raised in Manchester, is also on Capello's short list.

Onuoha, already a mainstay of the England Under-21 side, undoubtedly has the athletic ability that is now so highly prized among managers like Wenger.

He was the winner of a UK Athletics national indoor competition as a 15-year-old, in which he set a record for the standing long jump.

If Agbonlahor and Onuoha do make the breakthrough to become regular international stars, they could herald a new phenomenon in English football.

While black players have thrived in the national side, the only players with African roots to have represented England are John Salako, John Fashanu and Ugo Ehiogu — and they have just 11 caps between them.

That may change as Premier League clubs continue to sign players at ever younger ages. More will be able to qualify for British passports and more will be available for selection by England as they will have left their home countries before playing for their senior national teams.

New Government proposals regarding sportsmen and skilled workers will be published in March and are expected to come into force in October next season.

The Home Office's new points-based system to control migration and target it at the best-qualified workers is expected to be great news for foreign players, not least Africans.

Previously, a non- European Union player had to be an international who had been picked for 75 per cent of his team's competitive fixtures in the past two years and his team had to placed in the top 70 of FIFA's rankings.

Only in exceptional cases — such as Chelsea's Salomon Kalou of the Ivory Coast, and Arsenal's Denilson from Brazil — are clubs allowed to get round the rules.

But the Home Office's revamp of migration regulations, which is aimed at encouraging highly skilled workers and discouraging those who cannot contribute to the economy, means there is likely to be more scope to let in more players from outside the European Union.

Africans are likely to benefit disproportionately because many judges of world football, including Wenger, believe that continent to represent the future of the game.

"I believe that Africans usually have physical power and in the modern game they are explosive, quick, strong," said Wenger last week.

"Basically, most of them play centre backs and centre forwards. First, it was only the strikers who came to Europe, then afterwards, to respond to the power, the centre backs had to be quick as well."

He believes that the immediate future will probably see England out-performed by the African nations.

"Why should a country like Nigeria, with 120 million people and with lots of people who play football, be behind England, if they organise their game?" he said.

The past 15 years have seen an extraordinary rise to prominence of the African player.

In the Eighties, to be African in the old English First Division was to be an oddity — and they were usually white.

The best known Africans of that era were Manchester United's Gary Bailey and Liverpool's Bruce Grobbelaar, goalkeepers from South Africa and Zimbabwe respectively and both white.

To be black and African was almost unknown, which is unthinkable now with Didier Drogba, Emmanuel Adebayor and Michael Essien the biggest names among 60 African-born players in the Premier League.

"Football has changed dramatically since the Eighties," said Drogba, who will lead the challenge of the Ivory Coast in Ghana.

"African football and our players have improved so much. Managers nowadays are inclined to give us key positions within the team."

Barcelona's Cameroon striker, Samuel Eto'o, who is arguably Africa's leading player, said: "The gates have opened for footballers from Africa and people have realised they are of a standard to play for the really big clubs.

"It's easier to say, look at how many great Brazilians there are in the major leagues, but the influence of African players has grown, too."

While Pele's infamous prediction that an African nation would win the World Cup by the end of the 20th century proved to be misjudged, it is clear that it is merely administration and management that is holding back their teams, not the quality of the players.

The African Cup of Nations, once patronised by Europeans as a mere distraction from more important domestic affairs, is fast approaching the European Championship as the second biggest tournament in world football.

Not only will every major Premier League side be scouting in Ghana during the three-week tournament — Arsenal are sending former player Gilles Grimandi — but many of the teams involved would be more than a match for the current England team.

Alongside Drogba,playing for the Ivory Coast,will be Chelsea team-mate Kalou, Arsenal's Kolo Toure and Emmanuel Eboue and Barcelona's Yaya Toure. All of them would walk into the England squad; indeed, most would be in the starting line-up.

"The Ivory Coast has fantastic potential," said Wenger. "The number of players who play in Europe is incredible. Just take the Toure family: one plays at Barcelona, the other at Arsenal. It's amazing. They are regular players.We see that more and more."

Wenger is not, of course, unaware of the possibility that uncapped footballers coming into the Premier League might end up as British citizens — and England players.

The Arsenal manager recently raised the prospect of Manuel Almunia,uncapped by Spain, playing for England when in two years' time he completes the six-year residency that is required to apply for a British passport.

Almunia's team-mate, Kolo Toure, could actually have been a part of Capello's plans for an England revival had he not played competitively for the nation of his birth.

The defender completes his six years of residency in the UK next month, having joined Arsenal as a 19-year-old, and will be eligible to apply for British citizenship.

The revision of Home Office rules is likely to open the door to even younger Africans who, eyeing the financial, if not football, rewards of playing for England, might be persuaded to forsake their nation of birth and bolster a failing team.

"I'm sure there are agents who are speaking to African teenagers about that possibility," said the scout to a major Premier League side. "There's more money to be made playing for England than for an African nation."

It may not be abiding by the spirit of international football but the nation that is paying £30 million to an Italian to dig itself out of its current lowly state could hardly claim to be above such mercenary methods.

More to the point,England may not be able to afford to ignore the potential benefits presented by the next generation of talented teenagers to arrive out of Africa.

The 38 Premier League stars expected to play in the African Cup of Nations

ARSENAL 3

Kolo Toure (Ivory Coast)

Emmanuel Eboue (Ivory Coast)

Alexandre Song (Cameroon)

BIRMINGHAM 3

Richard Kingson (Ghana)

Mehdi Nafti (Tunisia)

Radhi Jaidi (Tunisia)

BLACKBURN 1

Aaron Mokoena (South Africa)

BOLTON 2

El-Hadji Diouf (Senegal)

Abdoulaye Meite (Ivory Coast)

CHELSEA 4

John Obi Mikel (Nigeria)

Didier Drogba (Ivory Coast)

Saloman Kalou (Ivory Coast)

Michael Essien (Ghana)

EVERTON 3

Joseph Yobo (Nigeria)

Ayegbeni Yakubu (Nigeria)

Steven Pienaar (South Africa)

FULHAM 1

Diomansy Kamara (Senegal)

LIVERPOOL 2

Nabil El-Zhar (Morocco)

Momo Sissoko (Mali)

MANCHESTER UTD 1

Alberto 'Manucho' Goncalves (Angola)

MIDDLESBROUGH 2

Mohamed Shawky (Egypt)

Mido (Egypt)

NEWCASTLE 4

Obafemi Martins (Nigeria)

Geremi (Cameroon)

Abdoulaye Faye (Senegal)

Habib Beye (Senegal)

PORTSMOUTH 4

Papa Bouba Diop (Senegal)

Kanu (Nigeria)

John Utaka (Nigeria)

Sulley Muntari (Ghana)

READING 3

Andre Bikey (Cameroon)

Emerse Fae (Ivory Coast)

Ibrahima Sonko (Senegal)

SUNDERLAND 1

Dickson Etuhu (Nigeria)

TOTTENHAM 2

Hossam Ghaly (Egypt),

Didier Zokora (Ivory Coast)

WEST HAM 2

John Pantsil (Ghana)

Henri Camara (Senegal)

TOTAL AFRICAN PLAYERS LOST 38

...and it could have been worse

The remaining Premier League clubs, Aston Villa, Derby, Manchester City and Wigan, currently have no involvement in the African Cup of Nations.

Other players, such as Benni McCarthy (Blackburn and South Africa), Victor Anichebe (Everton and Nigeria) or Emmanuel Adebayor (Arsenal and Togo) have either not been picked or their countries have not qualified.

Lower division clubs who could lose players when the competing countries confirm their squads by January 10 are: STOKE Mamady Sidibe (Mali); WATFORD Danny Shittu (Nigeria); WOLVES Seyi Olofinjana (Nigeria); NOTTINGHAM FOREST Junior Agogo (Ghana); LEEDS Rui Marques (Angola); and ACCRINGTON Romuald Boco (Benin)

Just a heads up on the current state of African ball. Bye.

[Jon AS]

As second generation African myself, I hope this doesn't happen.

I wouldn't worry about it, that article is more about the English media trying to mix the current woes of the Premiership (oh noes! we are losing our African players in the middle of the season! I mean, there was absolutely no way to predict that would happen, right? ) with those of the national team and presenting an "ingenious" solution for both.

Sure, African born players have been known to play for their adopted European countries, most notably in this respect is, I believe, France, but I doubt it would happen on a large scale. Many of the players that come to Europe have already established themselves in their respective national teams, as the article states: European clubs use the ACN to scout players, who in turn won't be eligible to play for any other team.

Germany was in a similar situation to England a few years ago and the media just loved touting the names of various uncapped foreigners playing in the Bundesliga as potential saviours for the DFB team, needless to say nothing ever came of it and the team is doing alright with homegrown talent.

[cteresa]

I got to say it seems strange to me a bit that for example Agbonlahor seems to be sort of considered as an example of an african player, it seems to me ethnically he will be 50% african, 50% european and tending towards european due to nurture and of course, will be whatever he feels like he is ( and feeling allegiance and belonging to both would be perfectly natural). In english you seem to have that drop of blood thing, that a smidgeon of african blood makes you "black"which = "african" which is just weird. Why not call Agbonlahor an european player as well? And a lot of the so called "african" players of France or Portugal for example would have just as much european "blood" or genes into the mix as african. Say like Eusébio, ever seen photos of his mother? Languages are peculiar, the way one talks and thinks of such things is different in different languages.

The one player Portugal has had in recent memory which could be considered truly african ( no portuguese ancestry, nor born in Portugal) is Makukula who is as Portuguese as Adu is American, having moved here when he was 7 or so. He is now, sort of, almost a Benfica player, which if all goes well improves his chances of getting called to Euro2008, perhaps at the cost of Hélder Postiga. Keep me posted about Hélder, Koudolis, please. Scolari has started to crack the whip, saying players which are more interested in fashion shows or nights out or putting up weight will loose the "bus" and stay home. It is thought he meant Miguel Veloso, Manuel Fernandes, Miguel and perhaps a few more (Maniche always. Everybody knows how he is. Problem is, when he is good, he is so good and crucial, and snifff, beautiful goals to Holland....)

The last Benfica goal last night has to be seen. There is bad goalkeeping and there is catastrophical goalkeeping. That was calamity.

http://www.dailymotion.com/search/cardozo/...ca-resume_sport

it´s fun! you don´t see every day - and Cardozo had the cold blood and power and accuracy to take advantage of it.

[Jon AS]

In english you seem to have that drop of blood thing, that a smidgeon of african blood makes you "black"which = "african" which is just weird.

Actually I don't think that's true. There have been plenty of black England internationals by now, and I don't think they are generally considered "African".

And a lot of the so called "african" players of France or Portugal for example would have just as much european "blood" or genes into the mix as african.

With France I was thinking of guys like Makélélé, Desailly or Vieira who were born in Africa, not people who's parents or even more distant ancestors came to Europe long before they were born.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I got to say it seems strange to me a bit that for example Agbonlahor seems to be sort of considered as an example of an african player, it seems to me ethnically he will be 50% african, 50% european and tending towards european due to nurture and of course, will be whatever he feels like he is ( and feeling allegiance and belonging to both would be perfectly natural). In english you seem to have that drop of blood thing, that a smidgeon of african blood makes you "black"which = "african" which is just weird. Why not call Agbonlahor an european player as well? And a lot of the so called "african" players of France or Portugal for example would have just as much european "blood" or genes into the mix as african. Say like Eusébio, ever seen photos of his mother? Languages are peculiar, the way one talks and thinks of such things is different in different languages.

Alot has to do with how one identifies themselves. Mixed race blacks are often likely to identify with their black heritage for a variety of reasons that I won't even begin to get into here, but I'll graze the surface. Perhaps more evident in this country as any.

In the US this was institutionalized, I don't know if you've ever heard of the one-drop rule for determining race. Truthfully if you want to get down to it, many in the Mediterranean area are of mixed race, from Northern Africa to Southern Europe. But that doesn't matter, we're talking nationalities here, not race.

As for Africans born in Europe, USA, etc, I have to wonder how many second-generation Africans you've been around or second-generation immigrants in general. Most Africans in Europe now are either immigrants or of the second generation, and unless they are adopted by Europeans or Americans, they are always raised highly aware of their culture. I've now been to both of my parent's villages in Nigeria and this is pretty much standar for most of the second or even third generation African people that I know. For one thing our names set us apart automatically and differentiates us from Black Americans who aren't as culturally aware as we are. I find the same to be true of most second-generation Asians (all of whom are fluent in their mother tongue) and still identify with their Asian and American identity. They even have China towns in Nigeria now.

The one player Portugal has had in recent memory which could be considered truly african ( no portuguese ancestry, nor born in Portugal) is Makukula who is as Portuguese as Adu is American, having moved here when he was 7 or so.

Going back to the subject of ancestry vs. race vs. nationality, if you watch the West African countries in the ANC, you'll see quite a few mixed race Africans actually. One example off the top of my head is Peter Odemwingie, who plays his club ball at Lokomotiv in Moscow, and he has a Nigerian father and Russian mother. You can see him plying his trade for the Nigerian side.

It's up to the player, as always and as it should be. But for me personally, had I gone to the pro level of football I'd have chosen a Nigerian cap. My name is Nigerian and what sets me apart even from Blacks in this country.

[Sir Thursday]

I got to say it seems strange to me a bit that for example Agbonlahor seems to be sort of considered as an example of an african player, it seems to me ethnically he will be 50% african, 50% european and tending towards european due to nurture and of course, will be whatever he feels like he is ( and feeling allegiance and belonging to both would be perfectly natural). In english you seem to have that drop of blood thing, that a smidgeon of african blood makes you "black"which = "african" which is just weird. Why not call Agbonlahor an european player as well? And a lot of the so called "african" players of France or Portugal for example would have just as much european "blood" or genes into the mix as african. Say like Eusébio, ever seen photos of his mother? Languages are peculiar, the way one talks and thinks of such things is different in different languages.

I found it very strange that Agbonlahor was raised as an example of an African who would be playing for England. He has lived here all his life, he has been raised as an Englishman...It's an odd article to me too, and I'm English.

Sir Thursday

[Horus Ex Machina]

I found it very strange that Agbonlahor was raised as an example of an African who would be playing for England. He has lived here all his life, he has been raised as an Englishman...It's an odd article to me too, and I'm English.

Sir Thursday

I'll say this again. Very few Africans, Asians, Latin Americans, even living in Europe, totally forget thier roots. Especially when they're second, third generation. I was born in the USA, raised and lived here, but I know my language and I know my people. If you ever meet Nigerians living abroad we are a very tight knit people and covetous of our culture and it is a constant concern that it may die out due to African diaspora. It may seem strange to a European who is used to coming and going between EU countries for someone of African descent it is not. My cousins living in London can attest to it. I have cousins living in Ireland who are mixed race who identify with their fathers Nigerian heritage as readily as thier Irish blood. They are half Irish and half Nigerian and they're as much my cousins as any I have in Nigeria. I am as much a Nigerian as an American. My cousins in London are as much Nigerians as they are Englishmen. That's just how it is with us. If anyone doesn't know by looking or hearing me speak, all they have to do is try to pronounce my name and they will know. It's really that simple. That part of the article doesn't really seem strange to me.