Why does everybody hate Sansa?

[Lord Slum]

Everyone grows up differently. I don't hate Sansa, I realize she is stupid, ignorant and naive (to the extreme). Where did she learn this? From her guardians and caretakers. She is a very stupid and naive child though, even in AFFC. I'm guessing it's going to take some time for her brain to rewire (which it might not).

[Liadin]

I didn't like her when she got Mycah killed

Huh? All Sansa did in the confrontation between Arya and Joff was beg everyone to stop fighting. Ineffectual, but hardly her fault--Joff was the one who insisted on going there in the first place. And at that point, both Joff and Arya had personalities too strong to allow them to back off. When Sansa got home, she told Ned the true story (which was why he brought her in to back up Arya, although that didn't work out so well), and at that point it was really out of her hands. The Lannisters told the Hound to kill Mycah. Where in this is Sansa responsible?

I can see being angry at her for waffling in front of the court--although the direwolves were dead the moment one attacked the crown prince, honestly--but how do you blame her for Mycah's death?

[Mad Monkey]

I can see being angry at her for waffling in front of the court--although the direwolves were dead the moment one attacked the crown prince, honestly--but how do you blame her for Mycah's death?

Because she rode him down on her horse and cut him in half with her sword. That's pretty clear-cut to me.

[Lord Slum]

Because she rode him down on her horse and cut him in half with her sword. That's pretty clear-cut to me.

Sansa is one of the best fighters, standing at 6'6 ~250 lbs and a burn on her face.

[Mad Monkey]

Well, Sansa usually uses the clumsy pseudonym Sandor, but you'll notice that they've never actually been in the same scene at different times.

[Alexia]

Because she rode him down on her horse and cut him in half with her sword. That's pretty clear-cut to me.

Yeah, she warged Sandor before she gave her testimony to make him kill Mycah. Then, after she did the dirty deed, she actually went in front of the court and started crying and saying she couldn't remember what happened between Arya and Joffrey. Can you believe it?

Edit: And Jon is really trueborn, but she used her evil psychic powers to convince Arya and Robb and Theon and everyone else that he was really a bastard! That was why they all kept calling him bastard in the books - she even convinced their parents of it! That Sansa... *shakes head sadly*

[Lord Slum]

Well she did brag about killing Mycah too. In all seriousness, I can see why Sansa would be hated. I think those reasons are completely justified but I don't really blame her. She's a true victim of her circumstances.

[Peaches]

they've never actually been in the same scene at different times.

I see what you did there.

And I like it.

Also I can never pronounce her name right. Is it San-SA or SAN-sa? San with a short 'a' like man or San like a long 'a' as in fate? I always want to say Sansha.

[Wesel Soup]

I've always said San-SA, but that's just me.

Anyhow, basically, as far as I can tell from this thread, is Sansa is hated because she's a stupid kid who made some awful mistakes in her naivety that had tremendous costs?

[nightwisp1956]

I like Sansa, I think she is a sweet girl. She tends to be annoying, though and somewhat clueless. And people turn her head pretty easily with Lemon Cakes. But, Sansa is still many ways a child, although she does start to grow up quickly by the end of the books. I admire how she cares for her little cousin, he can be a handful! And I do hope she does marry a good, kind man.

It is possible Sansa might be the Queen to cast Ceresi down. I would not dismiss that possibility!

[Dreadwolf]

She is a very stupid and naive child...

- not more than Petyr Baelish was (at about her age).

And while LF survived due to Catelyn's intercession and Brandon's nobleness of mind - She is still standing thanks to her own virtues but without turning into a selfish monster. Besides while Peryr suffered some disappointment and humiliation it is completely out of proportion with what she had to endure.

BTW

Grown-ups never understand anything by themselves, and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them. (LP)

[Rockroi]

I think most people don't really care about her much until she lies about Arya and Nymeria attacking Jeoffery. I myself didnt like her again until the end/middle of SoS.

Except that she didn’t actually lie.

That scene takes place from Ned’s POV. Arya and Ned turn to Sansa and say, “Tell us what happened” and then Sansa- who is petrified of the King, hates pressure, and who is trying to please her father AND her betrothed -says that “I don’t know… It all happened so fast…” and then Aray flips out and says “Liar!” and jumps Sansa, causing Ned to have to separate them. That is the extent of Sansa’s testimony.

What everyone forgets is what Robert did next. He said to Ned that it sounded to him like the squabbling of children; Ned should discipline his and Robert would do the same with Joff. Ned could not agree more and we all think we are done (and thus ends Robert's most wise decision in the books up until the boar attack). But that's when Cersei reminds everyone that Royal Blood was shed, etc etc. There was nothing ANYONE could do by then. Cersei takes mindless retribution out on Lady, Mycha is dead by this point, and NOTHING happens to Arya.

So Sansa is somehow blamed for having her own wolf killed, through no fault of her own and no way she could ever deny that Nymeria actually attacked Joff. That’s fair?

I like her, but some of the reasons cited for dislike

- she's a traitor to her family (not backing up Arya, giving away Ned's plans to Cersei)

(and understand LB that I understand that these are not opinion syou have but are simply echoing the opinions of others)

Except, again, that she isn’t. “Giving away Ned’s plan” is a dramatic over-generalization of what Sansa actually did. All she did was give Cersei the “when” – SHE ALREADY KNEW THE WHAT! Ned told her. Ned then tells Sansa she cannot marry Joff. Sansa wants to go to the King, but he scares her so she goes to Cersei and the jig is up. But all she wanted to do was get ROBERT to get NED to stay (which Robert had done ONCE ALREADY!). This is not “giving away Ned’s plan” in the malicious sense.

- she's stupid/naive, believes things that are obviously untrue

I have always maintained that Sansa is a 12 year old girl who is disliked because she acts like a 12 year old girl. She is no more or less intelligent than any other 12 year old. Except that in fantasy books, children are NOTORIOUS for being far smarter than they should be (see Reed, Jojen). So, people automatically label her "stupid" when she is, in fact, relatively bright.

- she's passive, relies on others for protection/rescue, only observes other characters

Interestingly enough, this is why I dislike Jon Snow.

- she's spoiled, and shallow

She is neither, actually. As far as being “spoiled” that’s not quite how I took it when she was being beaten or forced to look upon her father’s decapitated head or forced to marry a dwarf or taken hostage (twice). As far as being shallow, I think she is just playing the hand she has been dealt.

I found Sansa's lack of prowess refreshing,

Could not agree more.

I didn't like her when she got Mycah killed and kept calling Jon "bastard".

She didn’t get Mycha killed; Cersei did that and Sansa was in no position to stop it. She calls Jon a bastard once which, of course, is an accurate description of his station.

Sansa is disliked because she is a 12 year old girl, acting her age. She has always been one of my more favorite characters for precisely that reason.

[King Bronn l]

I just dislike Sansa because I don't like teenage girls. I feel like there the most shallow,and superficial creatures to ever walk gods green earth. And Sansa is practically the archetype for them as a species. Im 30 btw so thankfully I only have to read about them at this point in my life. lol

[Datepalm]

I just dislike Sansa because I don't like teenage girls. I feel like there the most shallow,and superficial creatures to ever walk gods green earth. And Sansa is practically the archetype for them as a species. Im 30 btw so thankfully I only have to read about them at this point in my life. lol

Dany, Meera Reed, Brienne*, Margaery, soon Arya...all teenaged girls. I gues they're not accurate representations though. Just Sansa.

*probably. I think the timeline isn't 100% certain one way or another.

[King Bronn l]

Dany, Meera Reed, Brienne*, Margaery, soon Arya...all teenaged girls. I gues they're not accurate representations though. Just Sansa.

*probably. I think the timeline isn't 100% certain one way or another.

Dany........Rules a city and has given Birth to Dragons,not an accurate representation of a teenage girl.

Meera Reed......Is a fighter,and Hunter......not an accurate representation plus I never have to suffer through her POV

Brienne.....Freakishly large warrior chick,and I find her POV's boring. But she's still not a typical teenage girl.

Margaery has been married 3 times. And I,ve never had to read her POV.

Arya......Total whacko and most atypical teenage girl ever.

[broken one]

Dany, Meera Reed, Brienne*, Margaery, soon Arya...all teenaged girls. I gues they're not accurate representations though. Just Sansa.

Among the mentioned only Sansa behaves childish. like many real teenagers do (teenagers of today anyway). The rest seem adults in teenagers bodies. The same as for male characters in ASOIAF. One of very few things which dont hold water in the books imho.

I guess it was supposed to make it more medieval (short and "fast" life) but still...

btw. Sansa irritated me in the beginning, after the red wedding I got more relaxed approach to all characters ;) . Actually I like her, she tries to get by.

[Datepalm]

Dany........Rules a city and has given Birth to Dragons,not an accurate representation of a teenage girl.

Meera Reed......Is a fighter,and Hunter......not an accurate representation plus I never have to suffer through her POV

Brienne.....Freakishly large warrior chick,and I find her POV's boring. But she's still not a typical teenage girl.

Margaery has been married 3 times. And I,ve never had to read her POV.

Arya......Total whacko and most atypical teenage girl ever.

Sansa was bethrothed to a prince, watched her father beheaded, was married to a dwarf twice her age, assumed a fake identity under the guidance of a man with a crush on her mother and watched her aunt fall to her death. You know a lot of teenaged girls with those experiences?

[King Bronn l]

Sansa was bethrothed to a prince, watched her father beheaded, was married to a dwarf twice her age, assumed a fake identity under the guidance of a man with a crush on her mother and watched her aunt fall to her death. You know a lot of teenaged girls with those experiences?

And still took like 2 whole books to figure out the people who did all this to her......probably weren't her friends. You know many people that stupid?????

[Datepalm]

And still took like 2 whole books to figure out the people who did all this to her......probably weren't her friends. You know many people that stupid?????

Yes.

Though that has nothing to with Sansa or her experiences.

[King Bronn l]

Yes.

Though that has nothing to with Sansa or her experiences.

It has to do with why I dont like her......which is kind of what were talking about no?