[BOOK SPOILERS] Season 2 new characters

[Bronn is God]

I doubt it. Since they've already established Dany as a main character

Round and round we go. HBO have no qualms with cutting a main character out of a season. I would rather see Dany cut and the season done right rather than the include her and have a subpar season. Yes, your overpowered queen of dragons will make a reemergence in S3, so be happy about that.

Theon, Stannis, and KL are of far, far more importance.

[Kalbear]

Actually Theon is an interesting thought experiment to cut; what would we lose if we lost his perspective and his going to the iron islands?

We already have Bran's perspective at Winterfell. Do we need him to go? Do we need to see that? Would it lose too much if we send Theon off at the end of S1 and then he returns midway through S2 and has invaded Winterfell?

That would possibly work; it certainly would cut out a bunch of characters that we won't see for a while anyway. And it's not like they need to establish Theon for later books either. Hmm.

[Xenophon]

Round and round we go. HBO have no qualms with cutting a main character out of a season. I would rather see Dany cut and the season done right rather than the include her and have a subpar season. Yes, your overpowered queen of dragons will make a reemergence in S3, so be happy about that.

Theon, Stannis, and KL are of far, far more importance.

Round and round? I'm not a particular fan of Dany's, I just don't think it would be wise to cut her out of season 2 completely, especially if season 1 ends with the dragons being born. After having spent a season getting viewers used to moving between the 7 Kingdoms, the Wall, and Essos it would be pretty weird to just drop Dany's story entirely. So I suspect they end up casting most of the parts in Qarth.

[Ran]

Dany is not getting cut for a season. You can consider that coming down from on high, if you like. I think I can add that Theon's not going to be cut, either.

[Bronn is God]

*double post

[Bronn is God]

Actually Theon is an interesting thought experiment to cut; what would we lose if we lost his perspective and his going to the iron islands?

We already have Bran's perspective at Winterfell. Do we need him to go? Do we need to see that? Would it lose too much if we send Theon off at the end of S1 and then he returns midway through S2 and has invaded Winterfell?

That would possibly work; it certainly would cut out a bunch of characters that we won't see for a while anyway. And it's not like they need to establish Theon for later books either. Hmm.

Yes, Theon is a bad seed and his motivation for capturing Winterfell is purely based on the fact he is a dick. Let's show more of Bran's schizophrenic dream sequences, Dany walking around the desert and Lord Snow being the pompous dick he is crying that he didnt become a ranger.

Round and round? I'm not a particular fan of Dany's, I just don't think it would be wise to cut her out of season 2 completely, especially if season 1 ends with the dragons being born. After having spent a season getting viewers used to moving between the 7 Kingdoms, the Wall, and Essos it would be pretty weird to just drop Dany's story entirely. So I suspect they end up casting most of the parts in Qarth.

Trimming a character down a season could be just as bad as removing completely. IMO, the best way to start the Dany sequence in S3 is in the House of the Dying, maybe throw in a couple flashbacks - and we are done.

You can remove her from S2. What it does is save $$$ from filming in 2 locations.

[Slick Mongoose]

Nothing major needs to be cut, surely. A bunch of minor characters will go and each plot will be a little bit shortened.

[Bronn is God]

Dany is not getting cut for a season. You can consider that coming down from on high, if you like. I think I can add that Theon's not going to be cut, either.

Well that settles that. Though I do think its a bad idea.

[Kalbear]

Yes, Theon is a bad seed and his motivation for capturing Winterfell is purely based on the fact he is a dick. Let's show more of Bran's schizophrenic dream sequences, Dany walking around the desert and Lord Snow being the pompous dick he is crying that he didnt become a ranger.

Thanks - cause I know I totally suggested adding all of those.

From the looks of things Theon is being set up more as a dick in this season - something that wasn't done. The whole "I take orders from your father, not you" and the like. I don't know if they're stretching this out some or not, but if they establish the friction he has now they don't have to do so much when they have him talk to his dad and it won't be quite so implausible if he actually comes back to invade. And not having to do the Iron Islands, cast all the Greyjoys (who will either need to stay around for another 3 years or be recast when AFFC hits) would be helpful.

[Bronn is God]

Thanks - cause I know I totally suggested adding all of those.

From the looks of things Theon is being set up more as a dick in this season - something that wasn't done. The whole "I take orders from your father, not you" and the like. I don't know if they're stretching this out some or not, but if they establish the friction he has now they don't have to do so much when they have him talk to his dad and it won't be quite so implausible if he actually comes back to invade. And not having to do the Iron Islands, cast all the Greyjoys (who will either need to stay around for another 3 years or be recast when AFFC hits) would be helpful.

Hopefully they will let him grow. I really enjoyed the shaving scene they added in the pilot, we got to see the nature of the boys (Robb commenting that Joffrey is a prick, Theon being a sex-pest comments that Joff fucks all the girls and Lord Snow being his solemn old self). I do think there is hope for the relationship of Robb + Theon to continue, lets not forget Theon saves Bran and serves Robb well in his battles.

Also, Theon is probably the only PoV (excluding FFC and redemptive Jaime) we get that the majority of the population is not sympathetic too - I want to avoid the term "bad", but lets throw it out there, Theon is the only "bad guy" PoV, which makes him really interesting. It would be a shame to cut out his whole story.

Also, where the hell are all The Wire enthusiasts when I need them? Why arent they here to help me draw parallels?

[Kalbear]

I dunno about him being the only 'bad' PoV - we get PoVs of Cersei and Jaime throughout all of the series now, so we're actually kinda inundated with them.

And I'm not suggesting that we cut him out or anything like that - just cut his travel to his dad. Yes, we miss out on some of his motivation and his reason for his betrayal in a scene, but we can also get a lot of that in conversation with Bran and the like.

[Casso King of Seals]

I can't imagine why Rorge and Biter would be cut. They don't complicate anything. They exist to establish mood and tension and to make you wonder how scary Jaqen is when he starts talking to Arya and why he's locked up with these animals. Those are the characters you KEEP.

I personally hope the Bran/Theon story is economized. No Walders, no Lady Hornwood. Just Theon, Asha, Balon, and at least a brief appearance by Aeron should fill out the Greyjoys and give Theon enough people to talk to in order to flesh out his dilemma. (Though I wouldn't be surprised at all if Aeron got cut.)

My "radical" suggestion would be to omit the Bastard of Bolton subplot altogether, but at least I agree that the whole Reek thing is out.

[Lord Godric]

I can't imagine why Rorge and Biter would be cut. They don't complicate anything. They exist to establish mood and tension and to make you wonder how scary Jaqen is when he starts talking to Arya and why he's locked up with these animals. Those are the characters you KEEP.

But if there are any characters that are expendable, certainly they are. Just have everyone fear Jaqen in his cage chained to the floor, and have random people help with the "weasel soup" and they wouldn't need Rorge or Biter. Characters like these will be cut for budget reasons, and so as to simplify the plot.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

Isn't the Kingsmoot taking place during ASOS? if so you could move those chapters up to the second half of ASOS's seasons. so Asha's abense won't be so long. and i geuss you could have a couple scenes of her conversing with Balon in seasons 2 and 3.

[Phostopheles]

But if there are any characters that are expendable, certainly they are. Just have everyone fear Jaqen in his cage chained to the floor, and have random people help with the "weasel soup" and they wouldn't need Rorge or Biter. Characters like these will be cut for budget reasons, and so as to simplify the plot.

They could very easily dress up two extras as Rorge and Biter and just leave them unnamed...several smaller parts could still be cast and have no lines. I believe you can also do this for the Tickler, the Manderlys (though I suspect that house will become more important in later books if the merling conspiracy theory holds any water), Davos' sons, several of the named Night's Watch characters, etc.

Also, I didn't see any mention of Patchface or Shireen...shame.

Not to mention that their budget will be freed up a bit after Mark Addy and Sean Bean bite the dust. They could probably afford to cast most of those characters, especially if some of the minor characters move out of the picture for a season or two.

[Lord Godric]

They could very easily dress up two extras as Rorge and Biter and just leave them unnamed...several smaller parts could still be cast and have no lines. I believe you can also do this for the Tickler, the Manderlys (though I suspect that house will become more important in later books if the merling conspiracy theory holds any water), Davos' sons, several of the named Night's Watch characters, etc.

Also, I didn't see any mention of Patchface or Shireen...shame.

Not to mention that their budget will be freed up a bit after Mark Addy and Sean Bean bite the dust. They could probably afford to cast most of those characters, especially if some of the minor characters move out of the picture for a season or two.

Well I agree about the extras. I think many of the expendable characters will probably be reduced to unnamed and unintroduced extras, especially bannermen. But for certain characters I just see their entire plots being eliminated, and I think Rorge and Biter are two of those characters.

As for the budget, I don't think we have any confirmation that the budget of season 2 will be the same as season 1. I think a lot of it will depend on the success of this season. But, yes, after Addy and Bean leave there would be plenty of money freed up, but there are also a lot of new characters to cast and wherever cuts can be made they will be.

[Xenophon]

But, yes, after Addy and Bean leave there would be plenty of money freed up, but there are also a lot of new characters to cast and wherever cuts can be made they will be.

Especially after they see all the different ways GRRM plans to go over-budget on the Battle of the Blackwater script.

[Kalbear]

Money for the cast, I suspect, is not nearly as big a deal as money for extras, locations, shooting time, CGI, and the like. It certainly wasn't the issue for Rome, and Rome had a significantly less ambitious design.

[LadyMary]

From a TV ep by ep perspective it's okay. The problem is that if you go by each book being a series, Dany doesn't even think about relating with any other characters until Season 5. So in S1 - she doesn't get her kingdom back. In S2...still doesn't. In S3? Nope. In S4? Nope. All this setup since the first ep for no grand payoff is much harder to sell in TV-land. Hell, it's already hard to sell for the book fans.

Speaking only for myself here, but I like Dany's character development just as I like Cat's, Cersei's, Arya's, etc. along with a lot of the male characters. This is series in which men rule and make the rules, and seeing how women wield power within the confines of patriarchal society is interesting to me. Women in that world have to use different weapons and different forms of persuasion but no less capable showing leadership and honor. Dany's character development is extreme. She starts out as royalty in name only, a homless orphan the emotional (and maybe sexually) abused sister of a possibly insane brother who has delusions of grandeur. She is sold like a prize horse in return for the promise of an army, but manages to turn that to her advantage, get out from under her brother's thumb and lead an army. She has to learn leadership and she does, there's an ongoing process involved in her accumlation of power but I think that will play out differently on the screen in a more condensed manner. I understand that the palace intrigues may be less interesting to some fans who prefer the action sequences and fight scenes, etc., but I like it and it's often the women who cause or influence actions of the men in very interesting ways.

I'm new to this universe created by GRRM. I have to believe there are other female fans of this series (although I'm feeling kind of outnumbered at the moment, ha).

[Kalbear]

LadyMary, there are plenty of female book fans. On this board and elsewhere.

I like Dany's character development and story okay, but personally when I'm reading about the latest events in Westeros - where Robb's fighting here and Stannis has just assassinated Renly and Arya's trying to escape from this place or all the events leading up to the Red Wedding, every time I read Dany's chapter it's like switching gears too fast. All of a sudden all of those events get to be put on the back burner to read this entirely different story with basically no connection to the main story. And it's a good story! But it's not the main one.

It's similar in some ways to the narrative structure of Lost with the flashbacks, if you've watched that. Except even less connected directly with what's going on. And in a book that's tough to deal with, but in a TV show where you only have 10 hours per season, a lot of people will complain that Dany's tale, while interesting, doesn't have anything to do with the main plot.

Another way to put it is this: you could reasonably cut out all the Dany chapters from the first three books and not miss a single important detail about the story in Westeros. You can't say that about cutting out any of the other PoVs. Similarly, you could cut out all the stuff except Dany and basically have a nice standalone story - and you can't do that with any other character either.