Khal Pono Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Yes, I know he needed (possibly magical) help from Howland Reed in order to kill DayneYes, I know that if people talked about it on the page, that would spoil the mystery for readersBUT it still stretches the bounds of credibility that no one in the narrative comments even obliquely "Whoa there's the guy who kill Ser Arthur Dayne!" Wasn't Dayne like a god to people who care about who's the best fighter, etc?Even if people believe Ned beat Dayne dishonorably, they should at least talk crap about him., "i.e. there's the guy who sucker punched Arthur Dayne and killed him through magic tricks!"Does anyone ever acknowledge what Ned accomplished?The Dayne squire boy doesn't even mention it to Arya. Oh yeah, by the way your Dad killed my uncle...Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Direwolf Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 You know, that is a good question. Perhaps it's just something that isn't really well known? Like, people knew that Arthur Dayne died at the Tower of Joy, but not that Ned specifically killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Cersei mentions Ned killing Dayne but never mentions the circumstances under which he was killed. Perhaps most know it was Ned with a much larger force vs three stray KG in the middle of nowhere, and hence, they don't view it as anything too remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wood of the Morning Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 That entire scene is very hush hush, Ned never talked about what happened there so I don't think people know he and Howland were personally responsible for killing 3 KG, people probably just assume he went south with a much larger force, but it is kinda weird now that you bring it up. It's probably just an oversight by George though honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Ned obviously isn't the type to brag about it or seek notoriety for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Mad Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Its not a subject Ned wanted attention drawn towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Face Man Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Ned Stark does not boast about what he has done, to much honor.Some people think he defeated Arther in single combat. We know thats not ture because Ned tells us in his dream. But others in Westeros dont know what happend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Pono Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Ned obviously isn't the type to brag about it or seek notoriety for it.Agreed, but is it an absolute secret that no one knows? Because even if a few people knew, the tale would spread, whether Ned wanted it to or not. Don't Ned and Barristan (who wasn't there) have a conversation as if Barriston knows what happened at the ToJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Cersei mentions Ned killing Dayne but never mentions the circumstances under which he was killed. Perhaps most know it was Ned with a much larger force vs three stray KG in the middle of nowhere, and hence, they don't view it as anything too remarkable.This was my interpretation too. It's certainly a feat, but the circumstances are... sketchy at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Ned probably mourned what he saw as the pointless deaths of Arthur Dayne and his white cloaked brothers. There wouldn't be any reason to celebrate that. Arthur Dayne was well-loved throughout the kingdoms and his death was a tragedy. There seems to be little sense in celebrating the whole unfortunate situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Ned didn't defeat Arthur in single combat. And I'm sure Robert's victory over Rhaegar overshadowed the whole event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Pono Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Ned probably mourned what he saw as the pointless deaths of Arthur Dayne and his white cloaked brothers. There wouldn't be any reason to celebrate that. Arthur Dayne was well-loved throughout the kingdoms and his death was a tragedy. There seems to be little sense in celebrating the whole unfortunate situation.But that would go to my other point... if Dayne was so loved, wouldnt Ned be hated/feared/celebrated for killing him, regardless of whether he would prefer to keep the whole thing quiet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Ned obviously isn't the type to brag about it or seek notoriety for it. Sandor Clegane's take on Lord Eddard http://youtu.be/Ir10KmgGrjU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 But that would go to my other point... if Dayne was so loved, wouldnt Ned be hated/feared/celebrated for killing him, regardless of whether he would prefer to keep the whole thing quiet?Targaryens and Targaryen loyalists may have hated him. But Ned was also a man who would be difficult for reasonable people to hate. Unless you really felt strongly about it, most people probably reacted with regret or sadness rather than anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumpthy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Agreed, but is it an absolute secret that no one knows? Because even if a few people knew, the tale would spread, whether Ned wanted it to or not. Don't Ned and Barristan (who wasn't there) have a conversation as if Barriston knows what happened at the ToJ?Barristan would probably have asked Ned all about what happened so he could fill in the White Book. And then Barristan's not the kind of guy who's going to go around gossiping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I always wondered how much about the end of the three members of the KG is known and why people in Westeros don't wonder what the hell they were doing in Dorne. The best answer probably is that people assume that Ned had KG outnumbered at least 10 to 1 so no heroic victory there and that KG was simply holding Lyanna as hostageon king's or Rhaegar's order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Pono Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Barristan would probably have asked Ned all about what happened so he could fill in the White Book. And then Barristan's not the kind of guy who's going to go around gossiping.That is true.. so I guess the real question is how much do the people in Westeros know about what happened at the Tower of Joy. Are Ned and Howland Reed (and Barristan???) the only ones? Surely Robert must have asked Ned what happened to Lyanna and the kingsguard who were there. And even if Ned lied to protect his sister (promise me, Ned!), he still would have had to offer some story about what happened. So wouldn't others know as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodymime Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Cersei mentions Ned killing Dayne but never mentions the circumstances under which he was killed. Perhaps most know it was Ned with a much larger force vs three stray KG in the middle of nowhere, and hence, they don't view it as anything too remarkable.You don't remember where that is do you because I cannot find it anywhere. The closest I come is Cersei merely thinking that the Sword of the Morning was also a Dayne with no mention of how he dies, just that he's dead.I know Ned's men brag about how he kills Dayne in single combat and Ned tells Bran how he would have killed him but for Reed but that was more of a passing remark in a conversation about Dayne being the best knight Ned ever knew. Other than that there isn't a single mention in the books of who kills Dayne, simply that he's dead.I think people don't talk about it because people simply don't know especially given the fact that with all the thoughts Jaime has about Dayne, if he knew Ned had killed him we'd see it at least once in his pov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 That is true.. so I guess the real question is how much do the people in Westeros know about what happened at the Tower of Joy. Are Ned and Howland Reed (and Barristan???) the only ones? Surely Robert must have asked Ned what happened to Lyanna and the kingsguard who were there. Wouldn't others know as well?Obviously no one but Ned and Howland and I presume Wylla know the REAL story, but at the same time, we don't know, specifically, what Ned told everyone else. The obvious answer — though it's disappointing if you're after specifics, I admit — is that whatever Ned told people, it was enough to put their minds at ease without giving away the Jon angle. I presume Ned told Robert and Barristan enough of the truth as possible without spelling out that Jon was there and why the three Kingsguard were still there.You don't remember where that is do you because I cannot find it anywhere. The closest I come is Cersei merely thinking that the Sword of the Morning was also a Dayne with no mention of how he dies, just that he's dead.It's when Ned confronts her and she throws Ashara back at him. She wonders if Ashara killed herself because Ned killed Arthur. She knows Ned killed Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EgoistMusketeer Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I always assumed Howland Reed did tipped the scale with a net, a trident and some poison rather than magic. I assume he taught meera how to fight and the walders mention that the crannogmen use poisons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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