Will Dany need assistance (ie scorcery) to control her dragon?

[~Shiera Seastar~]

Considering her resistance to fire, and considering her dragon's blood, maybe Dany will be able to sound the dragon horn without burning like the others. Dany mentioned that the old Targaryens used to use magic horns to control their dragons, so they must have been resistant to the burning aspects of the horn, too.

Dragonlords like the Targaryens can master the dragonhorn... interesting.

[Fender]

Considering her resistance to fire, and considering her dragon's blood, maybe Dany will be able to sound the dragon horn without burning like the others. Dany mentioned that the old Targaryens used to use magic horns to control their dragons, so they must have been resistant to the burning aspects of the horn, too.

I'd never thought of that. Great point, and great first post; you've one-upped most people already on the forum with that one.

[Brother Seamus]

it's explicit in dwd that Dany can't control him, whereas the old targaryens could because of spells or magic.

grrm has set up at least 3 possibilities as i see it.

1.marwyn

2. the horn victarion is carrying

3. the faceless man who was jaqen hgar is in the citadel in the face of pate, and he's presumably looking for dragon-related knowledge in their library, but whether it's to control dragons or kill them is unknown.

[snowtarg]

it's explicit in dwd that Dany can't control him

Reread her last chapter, A Dance with Dragons chapter 71, ‘Daenerys X’. She seems to be controlling him much better on their flight that ends with encountering Khal Jhaqo:

"Drogon came, snorting plumes of smoke. The grass bowed down before him. Dany leapt onto his back. She stank of blood and sweat and fear, but none of that mattered. “To go forward I must go back” she said. Her bare legs tightened around the dragon’s neck. She kicked him, and Drogon threw himself into the sky. Her whip was gone, so she used her hands and feet and turned him north by east, the way the scout had gone. Drogon went willingly enough; perhaps he smelled the rider’s fear."

[Montey14]

yes....he did let her on his back and let her guide him.....but perhaps the dragon thought the scout was an easy meal....just a guess.....or it could just be that the dragon remembers her as she did raise them and feed them until they were big enough....Although it seemed willing to take her in it's back....I doubt Dany can trust the dragon in a battle situation with spears and arrows flying at it.....whos to say he won't scorch every single person on the battle field including her own men....I think the dragon lords had spells that enabled them to communicate with them .....Dany is far from bending Drogo to her will in my opinion .....and lets not forget the other 2 dragons that are completely wild

[Montey14]

GRRM has said already that Daenerys does not possess any magical resistance to fire. Her surviving the fire during the dragons birth was only due to the "ritual" taking place and not due to any innate abilities. Immunity to diseases is said to be a trait of all the dragonlords of old Valyria in the book (although that's Dany's presumption according to rumors she heard about her ancestors).

There is definitely magic around Dany but she doesn't wield any magic so far not even unknowingly in my opinion. That's not to say she won't learn some magic in the future, who knows? For a fantasy series these books do lack of a spellcaster hero. I am really anticipating GRRM's wizard POV. GRRM always makes sure that his characters are frail in some way. Even when they've got power and station they also have a fatal flaw that dooms them in the end. Imagine a wizard...

.....I don't know....ressurrecting people and givng birth to shadows.....warging into wolves and birds.....thats some pretty magical stuff...

[wolfmaid7]

Dany maybe able to control or join with Drogon once she realizes her magic bond with him. In ADWD when Drogon was on a rampage in the pits he was speared Dany cried out in pain as she too felt it. This is a magic bond that i don't think she has realized the depth of yet.

In addition,Dany has no immunity to fire,she may have a high tolerance for it but she is not immune. The pyre was blood magic; MD's blood paid for her life.Therfore, if she hadn't ducked from Drogon's fire in the pit she would have been toasted. No Targ has ever had an immunity to fire.

[Montey14]

Dany maybe able to control or join with Drogon once she realizes her magic bond with him. In ADWD when Drogon was on a rampage in the pits he was speared Dany cried out in pain as she too felt it. This is a magic bond that i don't think she has realized the depth of yet.

In addition,Dany has no immunity to fire,she may have a high tolerance for it but she is not immune. The pyre was blood magic; MD's blood paid for her life.Therfore, if she hadn't ducked from Drogon's fire in the pit she would have been toasted. No Targ has ever had an immunity to fire.

I think the blood majic paid for the dragons' life not hers....her son paid for drogo .....and drogo paid for the dragons.....why would the witch put a helpful spell on Dany after she tied her to the pyre....that seems unlikely....

[CKPS63]

According to Moqorro, the glyphs on the dragon horn read "fire for blood, blood for fire." Moqorro tells Victarion that this means he must claim the HORN with blood. But Moqorro's loyalties are suspect here -- the ambiguous glyphs could just as easily mean that one must claim the DRAGON with blood in order for the horn to work. In her final chapter in ADWD, GRRM mentions repeatedly that Dany is bleeding. So maybe she has already "claimed" Drogon with blood for purposes of the horn's magic -- if she is able to get it away from Vic, she might also be able to control Drogon (whereas Vic's blood on the horn and not the dragon would have no effect). As for Viserion and Rhaegal -- maybe they will just fall in line once their big brother takes the lead.

[snowtarg]

In her final chapter in ADWD, GRRM mentions repeatedly that Dany is bleeding. So maybe she has already "claimed" Drogon with blood for purposes of the horn's magic.

This must be the answer! In A Game of Thrones chapter 23, ‘Daenerys III’, Dany has a dragon dream:

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt a dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

The dragon in her dream is clearly identical to Drogon, because just after the dream is a description of Daenerys touching a dragon egg:

Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream.

Her vision of Drogon has given her new strength. Later in the same chapter Daenerys defies Viserys for the first time, has sex with Khal Drogo by riding on top of him and is told that she is pregnant. It appears that her magical bond with Drogon may have begun even before he hatched.

[aryagonnakill]

I think the blood majic paid for the dragons' life not hers....her son paid for drogo .....and drogo paid for the dragons.....why would the witch put a helpful spell on Dany after she tied her to the pyre....that seems unlikely....

The person you quoted is not suggesting that MDM cast a protective spell on Dany. The person you quoted is suggesting what GRRM has come out and said. We do not know the exact inner workings of the magic, but putting MDM, Drogon who had his life saved by Rhaego's sacrifice and was killed by Dany, and the dragon eggs in the fire, Dany performed blood magic which both protected her and paid for the dragons lives, and likely her bond with Drogon.

[The Frision Wolf]

Here's what I think is going to happen.

I red all the books if you dont like spoilers stop reading now.

The North

I think Stannis is going to be murdered by Bolton, but a lot of Stannis his man will be left with know one to follow.

John is dead, but the the redwoman (missandrei) revieves him. Because he died he did not break his oth to the knights of the nightwatch.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.

somehowe the letter that Rob Stark made just befor " the red wedding" is brought to him together with the remains of the Army of the North. The Free Brotherhood will also join John Snow because Cathelyn stark is the leader of the Brotherhood and she knows about the letter that Rob Stark set-up making John The New King of The North.

Now Cathelyn Stark can finally R.I.P. and she also made her peas with John Snow. So she dies.

Then John Snow Murders Bolton and his army. Then they march on to Kingslanding for Lannister blood.

Essos

With the help of Tyrion and his clan they overcome the problems there, victarions army will lose the battle, but they blow the big horn ( not knowing thats the Horn that Mans Raider was looking for ) so the wall melts, at the other side of the world.

I think in some way Arya teams-up with Dany and Tyrion, and they go to the South of Westeros to up with (aegon) because Tyrion knows about that. They also will march to Kings landing to claim the iron throne.

Then I think there will be a cold war between Dany T. and John Snow, but because of Tyrion and John Snow there connection maby some how he can plan a wedding. Then the North army will be attacked bye the white walkers from the north and to stop them they need to use the dragons. But they are still not under control bye Dany.

And there is where Bran and Arya (and maby Rickon) come in. Because they are Wargs they can use there powers to controle the Dragons and stop the white walkers ( so bran can finaly fly, like in his dreams)

John Snow marries Dany

Tyrion becomes hand of the king and Samwel will be his Measter.

Excuse me for my english haha I'm not a native speaker

What do you guys think ?

[aryagonnakill]

Here's what I think is going to happen.

I red all the books if you dont like spoilers stop reading now.

The North

I think Stannis is going to be murdered by Bolton, but a lot of Stannis his man will be left with know one to follow.

John is dead, but the the redwoman (missandrei) revieves him. Because he died he did not break his oth to the knights of the nightwatch.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.

somehowe the letter that Rob Stark made just befor " the red wedding" is brought to him together with the remains of the Army of the North. The Free Brotherhood will also join John Snow because Cathelyn stark is the leader of the Brotherhood and she knows about the letter that Rob Stark set-up making John The New King of The North.

Now Cathelyn Stark can finally R.I.P. and she also made her peas with John Snow. So she dies.

Then John Snow Murders Bolton and his army. Then they march on to Kingslanding for Lannister blood.

Essos

With the help of Tyrion and his clan they overcome the problems there, victarions army will lose the battle, but they blow the big horn ( not knowing thats the Horn that Mans Raider was looking for ) so the wall melts, at the other side of the world.

I think in some way Arya teams-up with Dany and Tyrion, and they go to the South of Westeros to up with (aegon) because Tyrion knows about that. They also will march to Kings landing to claim the iron throne.

Then I think there will be a cold war between Dany T. and John Snow, but because of Tyrion and John Snow there connection maby some how he can plan a wedding. Then the North army will be attacked bye the white walkers from the north and to stop them they need to use the dragons. But they are still not under control bye Dany.

And there is where Bran and Arya (and maby Rickon) come in. Because they are Wargs they can use there powers to controle the Dragons and stop the white walkers ( so bran can finaly fly, like in his dreams)

John Snow marries Dany

Tyrion becomes hand of the king and Samwel will be his Measter.

Excuse me for my english haha I'm not a native speaker

What do you guys think ?

I cannot get onboard with the Victarions horn is the Horn of Joramun theory for two obvious reasons. First of all the horn was blown on Old Wyk and the wall didn't fall so either it has to be in range or it's a dragonhorn. Secondly Moqorro would not want the horn of Joramun blown even if it was out of range I think, he's a red priest sworn to fight the great other not help him, and why take the chance that the wall would fall if the horn gets blown?

[Erls]

Add to that..

Who dies? Stannis? Who else. At least a couple other big characters will.

It wraps up way too neat for GRRM.

[The Frision Wolf]

Add to that..

Who dies? Stannis? Who else. At least a couple other big characters will.

It wraps up way too neat for GRRM.

Ok I agree but i think the Dragon WARG thing is pretty close. And there are still 2 books coming :D, i dont have a clue whats going to happen to Sansa and Pinky. Or Jaimy and Brienne. I think does would be the caracters who will die :P

[lady m]

The person you quoted is not suggesting that MDM cast a protective spell on Dany. The person you quoted is suggesting what GRRM has come out and said. We do not know the exact inner workings of the magic, but putting MDM, Drogon who had his life saved by Rhaego's sacrifice and was killed by Dany, and the dragon eggs in the fire, Dany performed blood magic which both protected her and paid for the dragons lives, and likely her bond with Drogon.

But Dany didn't perform any magic, MMD, however did. Dany doesnt know how to perform magic that we've seen. And the sacrifices we've seen with regard to blood magic have been voluntary, not incidental.

I would refer you to the first post of the following thread. It's long, but very detailed as the exact events of the pyre, timeframe, etc.

[aryagonnakill]

But Dany didn't perform any magic, MMD, however did. Dany doesnt know how to perform magic that we've seen. And the sacrifices we've seen with regard to blood magic have been voluntary, not incidental.

I would refer you to the first post of the following thread. It's long, but very detailed as the exact events of the pyre, timeframe, etc.

http://asoiaf.wester...pyre-revisited/

In my opinion both you and the writer of that post have missed the mark on that but we really can't know, but I don't think MDM cast any spells. I am not claiming that Dany is a sorcerer, I am claiming she had all the ingredients to perform a magically spell. I suppose you agree with the poster that MDM was casting a spell to protect herself from the fire and she accidentally cast it on Dany. I would refer you to Melisandre burning Stannis' hand and saying that his screams carried them all the way to Eastwatch. I would also regrettably point you to how the show portrays the event, since GRRM obviously would have told them how he actually envisioned it and season 1 was much closer then season 2. Dany explicitly states that she wants MDM to scream. The writer of the post you referred me to says that Dany gains her fire immunity after MDM's song changed and then presumably dies. I would theorize MDM was singing to try and avoid screaming, and that she failed. That her screams and her life paid for Dany to be immune to the fire and that Drago's life and kings blood paid for the Dragons. Obviously we can't know unless GRRM details what his actual intentions for how that worked went, but we have evidence that suggests the screaming could be a part of it, and that burning someone is essentially a spell in and of itself that can provide whatever is wished for, Dragons, wind, Stannis' sword glowing extra bright.

[lady m]

, since GRRM obviously would have told them how he actually envisioned it and season 1 was much closer then season 2. Dany explicitly states that she wants MDM to scream. The writer of the post you referred me to says that Dany gains her fire immunity after MDM's song changed and then presumably dies. I would theorize MDM was singing to try and avoid screaming, and that she failed. That her screams and her life paid for Dany to be immune to the fire and that Drago's life and kings blood paid for the Dragons. Obviously we can't know unless GRRM details what his actual intentions for how that worked went, but we have evidence that suggests the screaming could be a part of it, and that burning someone is essentially a spell in and of itself that can provide whatever is wished for, Dragons, wind, Stannis' sword glowing extra bright.

This is book canon, not show. But on the show Dany does not enter the pyre till MMD starts to scream, after she's sung the spell she tries to cast. I would also point out that at least one egg hatched before Dany ever walked into the pyre, and possibly two. Perhaps the bond she shares with Drogon is because he's the only dragon that hatched while she was actually in the pyre. The part you wrote about how Dany gains her fire immunity I would agree with, it's from MMD. I'm not sure about the other, but I also don't have a problem with them because they were sacrifices consciously given, if unwillingly.

As for Mel, she admits in her chapter that much of what she does is slight of hand and aided by powders. I find her chapter fascinating in that her thoughts give you a window into just how limited her powers are, as opposed to her words which make her seem extremely powerful.

[wolfmaid7]

I think the blood majic paid for the dragons' life not hers....her son paid for drogo .....and drogo paid for the dragons.....why would the witch put a helpful spell on Dany after she tied her to the pyre....that seems unlikely....

Drogo's blood ( blood of a king) woke the dragons from stone,Dany's life was bought with the sacrifice of MD. The spell failed, trust me it wouldn't of been to help Dany . Any which way you cut it in that pyre there was Drogo and MD,Dany had already took the life from Drogo that was bought with her son.

Edit: Clarification

[aryagonnakill]

This is book canon, not show. But on the show Dany does not enter the pyre till MMD starts to scream, after she's sung the spell she tries to cast.

Thats exactly what I said, and you can point out anything you would like I never said it was a fact I explicitly stated we can't know for sure so none of it is canon.