Osric Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Stannis. But with all this war, whoever wins it will be the rightful ruler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkae Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I choose the black dragon. I serve the Rightful Kings of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men. They are the True Lords of the Seven Kingdoms and Protectors of the Realm. For far too long have Pretenders and Usurpers defiled the Throne of Kings. Soon the True Kings will take back the Iron Throne with Fire and Blood. House Blackfyre, baby!I just can't see it why people won't understand that Daemon of the House Blackfyre was supposed to become the king. Ever since those days the Realm has been ruled on false pretenses. Targaryens or Baratheons have absolutely no right to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 which of the seven kingdoms? firstly, they have the right of self determination, secondly, no "lord" has any right to rule, save by his or her peoples consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stark Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Stannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Heir of Bear Island Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Why can't they just be a republic?Can't be a republic with put a developing middle class and strong Labour party. Westeros is several hundred years away from the possibility, Essos may have some cities capable of it though.As for OP question. Stannis is the rightful heir to Robert's stolen kingdom so it must be him. Jon is rightful heir to the Targarian house (assuming Aegon is fake), which would probably gather enough support to be restored if it was only common knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGriffonReborn Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Can we just do a damn poll on Survey Monkey? I love a good Stannis vs. Dany thread, but they get a little tiresome, and I'm not going through 16 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Aerys the Just Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Nice thread.I say Dany or Jon depending on if the latter got legitimized or not. As badass as Stannis is he is a kinslayer and a demon worshipper, and the legality of the dynasty his claim derives from is dubious at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Nice thread.I say Dany or Jon depending on if the latter got legitimized or not. As badass as Stannis is he is a kinslayer and a demon worshipper, and the legality of the dynasty his claim derives from is dubious at best.To the bolded..... um, what?The Baratheon claim is only as dubious as the Targaryen one when they inititally conquered Westeros. Right of Conquest is a risky one to uphold, but by all laws of Westeros, Stannis is the rightful ruler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousGeorge Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 To the bolded..... um, what?The Baratheon claim is only as dubious as the Targaryen one when they inititally conquered Westeros. Right of Conquest is a risky one to uphold, but by all laws of Westeros, Stannis is the rightful ruler.Can you please point me to the passage in ASOIAF where the laws with regard to the 'right of conquest' and dynastic change are discussed please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ricky of Ice and Fire Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Targs made the 7 kingdoms a single empire. The iron throne is theirs because they made it. A usurper is a usurper, and he is dead now, with no true born heirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Aerys the Just Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 To the bolded..... um, what?The Baratheon claim is only as dubious as the Targaryen one when they inititally conquered Westeros. Right of Conquest is a risky one to uphold, but by all laws of Westeros, Stannis is the rightful ruler.He burns people alive as sacrifices to Red Raloo the fire demon, in case you skipped half the Davos chapters and the last Asha one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 there is none, that's the basis of the books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Can you please point me to the passage in ASOIAF where the laws with regard to the 'right of conquest' and dynastic change are discussed please?If the "right of conquest" does not exist or is not legitimate, then no one has the right to any throne ever.Robert defeated the Targaryens on the battlefield, and all the lords of Westeros bowed to him. Legally, he is now king. Hence, right of conquest.Targs made the 7 kingdoms a single empire. The iron throne is theirs because they made it. A usurper is a usurper, and he is dead now, with no true born heirs.Aegon can take six crowns but Robert cant take one?Also, yes we know Robert left no true born heirs. That's the entire point as to why Stannis is his heir.He burns people alive as sacrifices to Red Raloo the fire demon, in case you skipped half the Davos chapters and the last Asha one.Calling R'hllor a demon is like calling any of the other gods demons. I noted it due to the terminology used.And Stannis isn't religious. He has made this much clear, in case you skipped the Davos chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrrhus Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I'd rather bend the knee to King Robb Stark, Asha Greyjoy or Daenerys Targaryen.I'd roast alive in dragonfire before I'd ever name that incapable child my queen. Stannis Baratheon is the one true king, by every law of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousGeorge Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 If the "right of conquest" does not exist or is not legitimate, then no one has the right to any throne ever.Robert defeated the Targaryens on the battlefield, and all the lords of Westeros bowed to him. Legally, he is now king. Hence, right of conquest.Aegon can take six crowns but Robert cant take one?Also, yes we know Robert left no true born heirs. That's the entire point as to why Stannis is his heir.Calling R'hllor a demon is like calling any of the other gods demons. I noted it due to the terminology used.And Stannis isn't religious. He has made this much clear, in case you skipped the Davos chapters.Yeah I agree with this. I just don't get it when people talk about the 'right of conquest' as if there is a clear legal framework and legal standards against which a claim can be tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Aerys the Just Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Calling R'hllor a demon is like calling any of the other gods demons. I noted it due to the terminology used.And Stannis isn't religious. He has made this much clear, in case you skipped the Davos chapters. Heresy. The Warrior's Sons will hear of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Right of conquest is a really awful argument.I am not surprised Robert did not make it.It is well nigh exploded in book i of Rousseau's Social Contract (not a guy I usually admire).It is not really a valid claim to anything and it can't establish any moral rights to the crown.It seems to be a post factum explanation for any rebellion but it can't be made until after success has been enjoyed; hence it acknowledges that rebellions do not need moral justification and implicitly admits there is no moral obligation to obey the dictates of any government established by it. And if people are not obliged to render you certain dues because of your 'right,' your right is not a real 'right' at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterz Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 The Targaryens conquered the Kingdoms and ruled them for many generations, they are by far the most rightful rulers of the Seven Kingdoms....and leave the other Great Houses to their duties without interfering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousGeorge Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Right of conquest is a really awful argument.I am not surprised Robert did not make it.It is well nigh exploded in book i of Rousseau's Social Contract (not a guy I usually admire).It is not really a valid claim to anything and it can't establish any moral rights to the crown.It seems to be a post factum explanation for any rebellion but it can't be made until after success has been enjoyed; hence it acknowledges that rebellions do not need moral justification and implicitly admits there is no moral obligation to obey the dictates of any government established by it. And if people are not obliged to render you certain dues because of your 'right,' your right is not a real 'right' at all.1. Other laws can also be used to justify a regime change after the fact.2. What is your beef with Rosseau?3. What happened to your depressed/agile cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 1. Other laws can also be used to justify a regime change after the fact.So, they will have rotten and illegitimate foundations.What is your beef with Rosseau?He was a scumbag because of his metaphysical collectivism. 3. What happened to your depressed/agile cat?It gave way before the Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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