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Stannis and Renly


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Yeah, but by all the laws of Westeros, Stannis is a traitor, for not supporting the Targaryens.

Yes and he knows it and it was a tough decision for him, though it can be argued that Aerys broke his social contract first, Stannis never argues this point. In the end Stannis chose his family first and was most likely going to die supporting Robert. The rebellion really did not have much chance of winning.

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Was Stannis's move against Renly simply kinslaying? Or was it a legitimate military manoeuvre?

"Robb Stark, Renly, they are all thieves, they need to bend the knee or I shall destroy them."

Renly usurped his brother who by all the laws of gods and men is the rightful king of Westeros. The Shadow Baby was tactically brilliant, once Renly died, his army fell apart and some went back to the Tyrells and the rest joined with the truth and rightful king of Westeros, Stannis Baratheon.

I don't agree with it, it was kinslaying, kinslaying brought on by out and out rebellion and the attempted Kinslaying of Stannis by Renly.

In other words, it was proactive self defense.

Stannis is just, Stannis, Jon Arryn and Eddard Stark are just men, one of the few in this series.

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"Robb Stark, Renly, they are all thieves, they need to bend the knee or I shall destroy them."

Renly usurped his brother who by all the laws of gods and men is the rightful king of Westeros. The Shadow Baby was tactically brilliant, once Renly died, his army fell apart and some went back to the Tyrells and the rest joined with the truth and rightful king of Westeros, Stannis Baratheon.

I don't agree with it, it was kinslaying, kinslaying brought on by out and out rebellion and the attempted Kinslaying of Stannis by Renly.

In other words, it was proactive self defense.

Yes, but Renly only attempted to kill Stannis in battle because Stannis lay siege to Storm's End. It was Stannis who made the first move against Renly, and then murdered him in cold blood. It's unlikely that Renly would have tried to kill Stannis if he'd stayed on Dragonstone.

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"Robb Stark, Renly, they are all thieves, they need to bend the knee or I shall destroy them."

Renly usurped his brother who by all the laws of gods and men is the rightful king of Westeros. The Shadow Baby was tactically brilliant, once Renly died, his army fell apart and some went back to the Tyrells and the rest joined with the truth and rightful king of Westeros, Stannis Baratheon.

I don't agree with it, it was kinslaying, kinslaying brought on by out and out rebellion and the attempted Kinslaying of Stannis by Renly.

In other words, it was proactive self defense.

Stannis is just, Stannis, Jon Arryn and Eddard Stark are just men, one of the few in this series.

Not that I think it would matter to Renly, but to be fair to him, he considered Stannis an usurper as well. He though of Joffrey as the true king. From his point of view there was probably little reason to bend to another usurper. If you are skipping 2 heirs to the throne, what's the difference from skipping 3? Though I don't think it would have made a difference anyway since he planned on usurping Joffrey's, Tommen's and possibly Myrcella's position anyway.

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Yes, but Renly only attempted to kill Stannis in battle because Stannis lay siege to Storm's End. It was Stannis who made the first move against Renly, and then murdered him in cold blood. It's unlikely that Renly would have tried to kill Stannis if he'd stayed on Dragonstone.

It's unlikely Stannis would have killed Renly if Renly didn't declare himself king.

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If only Mel had got with Bob. A limitless supply of Shadow Babies!

Just another of the myriad ways that Robert was the better brother.

:rofl:

Oh I agree, but I'm not sure if assassination counts as a legitimate military manoeuvre. For the record, war time assassinations are fine by me.

:agree:

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Except for the Emo whining about Lyanna...

Stannis does his fair amount of whining though...particularly about how he isnt popular, and being given Dragonstone instead of Storm's End. First world problems I guess.

I imagine Stannis spent his teenage years writing embarassing poetry about how girls don't like him.

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