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Stannis and Renly


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Stannis does his fair amount of whining though...particularly about people not liking him, and being given Dragonstone instead of Storm's End.

Well still, Stannis actually got things done while Bobby sat on the Iron Throne and let the Lannisters take over the realm...

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I side with Stannis here. People would call him a kinslayer if they knew the truth just like they called Bloodraven and Maekor kinslayers, but Renly was clearly in the wrong. People say that Stannis does not bend, but he bent very far for Renly. Offered to let him retain all his titles and make him his heir. The use of most likely dark magic is the only sticking point.

Stannis offered Renly what Renly already had. Not much of a deal, I'd say.

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Stannis offered Renly what Renly already had. Not much of a deal, I'd say.

The fact that Stannis specified that Renly would be his heir implied that he at the time wasn't. Shireen must have been Stannis' heir. So Renly would have jumped up by one in the line of succession.

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It is perfectly within a lords right to change who his heirs are. It doesn't bend any law.

I don`t think that they can. Randyl Tarly had to make Sam join the Wall to make Dickon his heir. If he could have just announced that he`s naming Dickon as his heir why didn`t he just do it?

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Stannis offered Renly what Renly already had. Not much of a deal, I'd say.

He also offered to make Renly his heir, which is not something that Renly had. Renly had just betrayed him and would be lucky to keep his head. In a lot of cases Renly would be stripped off his titles, be exiled or spend the rest of his life under House arrest.

It is perfectly within a lords right to change who his heirs are. It doesn't bend any law.

It does even now Lords can not make anyone they want as their heir. They have to pass on the title and lands as outlined by the peerage.

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If that's true, why did Randyll send Sam to the Wall instead of just proclaim his brother the heir?

I'm guessing because people would likely question Randyll, and it would be embarrassing for him to say that his first son was a wimp.

Maybe I should have specified that I think Kings can specifically choose heirs. Robb chose Jon over Sansa, so Stannis could choose Renly over Shireen.

It does even now Lords can not make anyone they want as their heir. They have to pass on the title and lands as outlined by the peerage.

Earth is not Westeros.

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If that's true, why did Randyll send Sam to the Wall instead of just proclaim his brother the heir?

A lord can't do that, but a king can do literally anything he wants, that's his right.

Surely kinslaying doesn't really count if you're in open war? Like Joff was saying he'd kill Stannis, no one seemed to care.

There is no right answer though, it's debatable in universe. Like Karstark calling Robb a kinslayer for executing him, so weak imo. Presumably the Starks also have married with the Umbers, Glovers, even Boltons. By that logic, Robb couldn't kill any noble Northman. And the kin ties will be even stronger in the south, probably most nobles are a bit Lannister. And the biggest example would be Robert killing Rhaegar- related by both Orys and Aegon's parents, and by Roberts's great grandmother. I think kinslaying only really counts direct family, probably not even cousins. Which isn't relevant to the question, just demonstrating the subjectiveness.

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