Hodor?

[Hound Dog]

The day I hear something really interesting about Hodor, and I mean something other than Hodor, I would be certainly pleased. With that said, I must complement OP for just asking the question, and not, like many ''intellegent'' posters started a thread with just Hodor.

Sometimes cigar is just cigar... I mean, Hodor is, for some,for me unknown reason interesting to fandom, but at the end he is just that. A poor, mentally ill man, who happens to be very kind and tender. Not every ''broken'' thing has to be special. Sometimes, unfortunately, what's beyond repair, remains irreperable...

Well said, and I agree completely.

I've always seen Hodor as nothing more than a tool for helping Bran along (both physically and story-wise). I don't understand the appeal of saying "Hodor?" in forums and then thinking it incredibly clever, nor do I get proclaiming him to be something greater than he is. He is just as you say, "a poor, mentally ill man". Without him Bran would not be able to get out of bed, would most likely be dead, and would never have discovered skinchanging into human form. GRRM has kept Hodor as simple as possible because that is all Hodor is.... simple. He'll most like die, I think. Same as all the rest. It'll be a sad day, too, when it happens, as he's the one person who remains innocent through all of this, because he's too stupid to know any better.

[Black Mike Secret]

I respect the OP for not simply posting "Hodor"

You, sir, are more in control of your actions than I.

[The Night's Prince]

It's a piety that the Singers can't really do healing magic like giving Bran back his legs and new wits to Hodor, but that's just the way it is.

I think Bran (before going tree-mode) and his fellows will still return back to the main gang and when Bran becomes a tree, Hodor will likely return to serve in Winterfell and the Reeds return home.

That's as anticlimactic as it gets and could have been done in one chapter. Not buying it.

The day I hear something really interesting about Hodor, and I mean something other than Hodor, I would be certainly pleased. With that said, I must complement OP for just asking the question, and not, like many ''intellegent'' posters started a thread with just Hodor.

Sometimes cigar is just cigar... I mean, Hodor is, for some,for me unknown reason interesting to fandom, but at the end he is just that. A poor, mentally ill man, who happens to be very kind and tender. Not every ''broken'' thing has to be special. Sometimes, unfortunately, what's beyond repair, remains irreperable...

You spelled intelligent wrong.

[Lord Nyeeks]

Bran can somehow use his warg abilities on Hodor like what happened on that castle where Sam and Gilly found them

[Summah]

Sometimes cigar is just cigar... I mean, Hodor is, for some,for me unknown reason interesting to fandom, but at the end he is just that. A poor, mentally ill man, who happens to be very kind and tender. Not every ''broken'' thing has to be special. Sometimes, unfortunately, what's beyond repair, remains irreperable...

I've always seen Hodor as nothing more than a tool for helping Bran along (both physically and story-wise). I don't understand the appeal of saying "Hodor?" in forums and then thinking it incredibly clever, nor do I get proclaiming him to be something greater than he is. He is just as you say, "a poor, mentally ill man". Without him Bran would not be able to get out of bed, would most likely be dead, and would never have discovered skinchanging into human form. GRRM has kept Hodor as simple as possible because that is all Hodor is.... simple. He'll most like die, I think. Same as all the rest. It'll be a sad day, too, when it happens, as he's the one person who remains innocent through all of this, because he's too stupid to know any better.

I realize this is nitpicking a little, but I think it's important, both in terms of our understanding of Hodor and of people like him in real life. I don't think mentally ill is a good term to use to describe Hodor. Mentally ill implies that he has something like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, in other words a psychiatric illness, and this does not seem to be the case at all for Hodor. The current accepted term among people who work with and/or advocate for populations of people like Hodor is intellectually disabled. Formerly mental retardation (IQ below 70) was used, but because retarded is now often used in such a pejorative manner, it's not a term that's preferred (words like idiot, moron, imbecile etc also used to be used clinically to describe specific IQ ranges within the intellectually disabled population, but not anymore, probably also because they've gained a general pejorative use). It's also possible Hodor has autism, but I really doubt that because of the way he's written and characterized.

[Hound Dog]

I realize this is nitpicking a little, but I think it's important, both in terms of our understanding of Hodor and of people like him in real life. I don't think mentally ill is a good term to use to describe Hodor. Mentally ill implies that he has something like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, in other words a psychiatric illness, and this does not seem to be the case at all for Hodor. The current accepted term among people who work with and/or advocate for populations of people like Hodor is intellectually disabled. Formerly mental retardation (IQ below 70) was used, but because retarded is now often used in such a pejorative manner, it's not a term that's preferred (words like idiot, moron, imbecile etc also used to be used clinically to describe specific IQ ranges within the intellectually disabled population, but not anymore, probably also because they've gained a general pejorative use). It's also possible Hodor has autism, but I really doubt that because of the way he's written and characterized.

Okay, then Hodor is intellectually disabled. Sorry if I offended you (or anyone else). You're right in the differences.

[Mladen]

I realize this is nitpicking a little, but I think it's important, both in terms of our understanding of Hodor and of people like him in real life. I don't think mentally ill is a good term to use to describe Hodor. Mentally ill implies that he has something like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, in other words a psychiatric illness, and this does not seem to be the case at all for Hodor. The current accepted term among people who work with and/or advocate for populations of people like Hodor is intellectually disabled. Formerly mental retardation (IQ below 70) was used, but because retarded is now often used in such a pejorative manner, it's not a term that's preferred (words like idiot, moron, imbecile etc also used to be used clinically to describe specific IQ ranges within the intellectually disabled population, but not anymore, probably also because they've gained a general pejorative use). It's also possible Hodor has autism, but I really doubt that because of the way he's written and characterized.

You are right, I used the term since these days any term for Hodor's condition is percieved as perojative.

[WildBlood]

I always just assumed Hodor was just a way for Bran to get around... :dunno:

I agree with this... If Hodor wasn't in the books, and Martin had all these plans for Bran, how does he fulfill them if not with Hodor?

[Summah]

You are right, I used the term since these days any term for Hodor's condition is percieved as perojative.

Most of the older terms are pejorative. And the term intellectually disabled is a recentish consensus, and I'm not sure how many people that aren't in some way involved with the population know the term. I only know about this stuff because my mother directs a day program and PA services for adults with developmental disabilities (all of whom are intellectually disabled and most have physical disabilities and/or autism in addition to the intellectual disability).

Getting back to Hodor, on a meta level all characters can be viewed as literary devices, but I really dislike how so many people dismiss Hodor as simply a tool for Bran and I hate how so many people seem to think it's ok for Bran to warg Hodor (after the first time) because he's intellectually disabled (actually, that's why I created an account, I lurked for about 3 days before seeing a thread about that and created the account to participate in that thread). I think these opinions probably say a lot about our society's attitude towards people with intellectual disabilities. I think Hodor is probably not more than he appears to be, which is to say an adult with a developmental disability, but because GRRM is a good author, he's not just a one dimensional stereotype. It seems to me that GRRM consciously chooses to include characters with various disabilities and I really appreciate it, most of them don't seem to be tokens or stereotypes and since disabled people are pretty invisible in a lot of fiction. Getting back to Hodor, I don't think he exists simply as a tool to help to Bran, because it's shown that Osha could have fulfilled that role as well as Hodor does, and certainly some other character could have taken charge of Rickon. So perhaps Hodor is with Bran to remind him of his humanity,

[Aegor Blackfyre]

Hodor? Hmm...Hodor. Hodor hodor hodor, hodor, hod...HODOR!

Seriously though, it is rather obvious that Hodor will conquer Westeros by the time aDoS is done. He will also found House Hodor and marry Daenerys.

Trully serious now, I don't think anything special awaits him. He is a simpleton after all, according to GRRM and the most he can hope for is a safe return back south of the Wall once all is done, where he will remain at court in Winterfell. That is my opinion anyhow.

[Mladen]

Most of the older terms are pejorative. And the term intellectually disabled is a recentish consensus, and I'm not sure how many people that aren't in some way involved with the population know the term. I only know about this stuff because my mother directs a day program and PA services for adults with developmental disabilities (all of whom are intellectually disabled and most have physical disabilities and/or autism in addition to the intellectual disability).

Getting back to Hodor, on a meta level all characters can be viewed as literary devices, but I really dislike how so many people dismiss Hodor as simply a tool for Bran and I hate how so many people seem to think it's ok for Bran to warg Hodor (after the first time) because he's intellectually disabled (actually, that's why I created an account, I lurked for about 3 days before seeing a thread about that and created the account to participate in that thread). I think these opinions probably say a lot about our society's attitude towards people with intellectual disabilities. I think Hodor is probably not more than he appears to be, which is to say an adult with a developmental disability, but because GRRM is a good author, he's not just a one dimensional stereotype. It seems to me that GRRM consciously chooses to include characters with various disabilities and I really appreciate it, most of them don't seem to be tokens or stereotypes and since disabled people are pretty invisible in a lot of fiction. Getting back to Hodor, I don't think he exists simply as a tool to help to Bran, because it's shown that Osha could have fulfilled that role as well as Hodor does, and certainly some other character could have taken charge of Rickon. So perhaps Hodor is with Bran to remind him of his humanity,

Well, I had a seminar during my med school about all the terms, but it was on my native, and I still don't know how exactly things function in English...

As for Hodor, I don't think there is anything special about him. Yes, one could argue that he is just a tool, but he is a character. My view is that we are overanalyzing something that is relatively simple. Not every character is a Prince, Lord or has some special power. Sometimes, there are ordinary characters that are truly great. And that's Hodor. Just that, a simple but kind and loyal man. As for warging, well I am not some big fan of the power,and I don't justify Bran for it. But also we have to understand that Bran didn't know what he is doing. That came later, and beside that he didn't know he was doing anything bad, so it was just childish act. Hodor will certainly impactBran, but as plot device, I don't think he will play any important role.

[jmondrag]

I think the only reason why Bran is able to warg Hodor is because he's a simpleton. IIRC, didn't the prologue of one of the books, ADWD I believe, have Varymyr Sixskins try to warg some woods witch that was taking care of him since he was so close to death after the Battle for the Wall? He successfully warged her, but she resisted it because unlike Hodor, she wasn't a simpleton. So yeah, Bran being able to warg humans isn't solely unique to him, but Hodor does provide him with an ample opportunity to hone this ability so that maybe if he tries to warg other humans later, they won't be able to resist him?

[Crannogman Pride]

Do we know if he can speak normally when Bran controlls him?

And to the OP, my guess is that he is what he is and no more. Somewhat of how I get the feel of Rickon eventhough he really is important!

Well when Bran is sneaking around in Hodor, he says 'Hodor' every now and then so nobody gets suspicious. We don't have definitive proof, but I'd guess he could speak normally if he wanted to.

This was before he ate the paste also, so now he is a much more powerful greenseer and skinchanger.

[Quiet Isle]

If you look up Nordic mythology, and Ragnarok, then hodor whose name is really Walder, is tied in to the Walder/Baldyr mythology. now how that will play out I will leave to general discussion.

[WhiteWalder]

The day I hear something really interesting about Hodor, and I mean something other than Hodor, I would be certainly pleased. With that said, I must complement OP for just asking the question, and not, like many ''intellegent'' posters started a thread with just Hodor.

Sometimes cigar is just cigar... I mean, Hodor is, for some,for me unknown reason interesting to fandom, but at the end he is just that. A poor, mentally ill man, who happens to be very kind and tender. Not every ''broken'' thing has to be special. Sometimes, unfortunately, what's beyond repair, remains irreperable...

I think that Hodor is mainly just there to provide transportation for Bran, and to act as a morality standpoint for all the other characters

Bingo! If you translate Hodor's name it makes perfect sense

Merriam-Webb Dictionary:

hod - 1.a tray or trough that has a pole handle and that is borne on the shoulder for carrying loads

ore - 2.a source from which valuable matter is extracted

Hodor = hod+ore = carrying valuable matter over the shoulder

[Crannogman Pride]

If you look up Nordic mythology, and Ragnarok, then hodor whose name is really Walder, is tied in to the Walder/Baldyr mythology. now how that will play out I will leave to general discussion.

Apparently Loki tricked the blind Hoder into killing his brother Baldr. Hoder and Baldr are Odin's sons, so Odin had some giant birth a monster to destroy Hoder. As if accidentally killing his super nice brother wasn't enough.But it's interesting that the one who is punished is the one who physically performed the action, not the manipulator.

[chrisdaw]

He'll be a sacrifice or the catalyst for Bran renouncing the ways of the COTF/BR should Bran refuse to sacrifice him. He will die though, that's why he's mentally handicapped, sweet natured and completely harmless (think Jinglebell), as it will make his death is all the more painful.

[Andros Sotherton]

Well when Bran is sneaking around in Hodor, he says 'Hodor' every now and then so nobody gets suspicious. We don't have definitive proof, but I'd guess he could speak normally if he wanted to.

This was before he ate the paste also, so now he is a much more powerful greenseer and skinchanger.

THAT would feel really weird, especially when the series catches up. "Hodor, Hodor, Hodor. Hey guys, that's my millionth Hodor! Well, that was that. When's lunch?".

[King Robert's Warhammer]

Hodor will die. It will be.

The.Worst.Death.Ever. :(

[LordReaper]

Hodor will die. It will be.

The.Worst.Death.Ever. :(

I've held through Ned. And Robb, and Drogo. And the drudgery of each and every Martell bar the Red Viper. And Mereen. And the sack of Winterfell and Reek.And JonCon. I'll even live through Jon Snow.

But if that happens, i WILL get Ramsay all up in some poor random fellow.