James Steller

Nah, just cousin incest

I can’t remember if the Freys found out about the Westerling marriage before the Battle of Blackwater or vice versa. But either way, I’d say that the Westerling marriage definitely pushed Walder over the edge and gave the Freys a desire for revenge. Without that, though, I think the Blackwater battle would definitely inspire Walder to desert Robb, repudiate their agreement, and defect back to the Crown.

Putting aside what we’ve seen, how strong is Valyrian steel supposed to be in the books?

Frankly, if it’s true that Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar, then I’d like to see Ned point out that her and Rhaegar’s actions led to the deaths of thousands of people, including two of her own relatives and Rhaegar himself, as well as his wife and kids. Let’s see her try to justify it with “but our baby is the chosen ooooonnnnnne”

By that logic, we know even less about Renly’s worthiness to be king. We never see him administrate, we never see him doing his job. We never see him successfully win in a fight, we never see him rule. We just see him abandon Ned for his own selfish desires, be charismatic enough to make some people like him, but nothing which would justify thousands of men risking their lives to put his rear on the iron throne. We see more than that. Brynden was immediately put in charge of Robb’s scouts and he took initiative on his own. Outside the Twins, he didn’t wait for Robb or Cat to tell him to shoot any ravens leaving the castle, he did that on his own because he has a tactical mind. Granted, you’re right; we don’t know what role that Brynden specifically played, but we can easily assume that he was essential to Robb’s victories. Robb was a prodigy, but I find it hard to believe that he didn’t get crucial advice from a man who survived the last big war which Westerosi armies fought in.

Littlefinger was charming and supportive to Ned too until he put his knife to Ned’s throat. I never meant that Littlefinger would lead the Vale to war against Renly. He’d do away with Renly in a much more secretive way, presumably while coordinating with Dany to help smooth over her invasion. Firstly, I apologise for using “improved”. It’s early and I meant to say “superior” since we know that Stannis does have more war experience than Renly. Second, I was assuming Renly had still declared his own bid for kingship, as he’d done before Robb’s council with Edmure. Third, you’re underestimating Stannis’s record. He didn’t just win a naval battle, he won a naval battle against the Ironborn. On their home turf. That, to me, shows an incredible adaptability on Stannis’ part. And combine that with the scenario where he has Robb Stark, Brynden Tully, etc… I’d say he’d prove more than a match for Renly and his summer knights.

The Stannis war I want to see is the one where Robb doesn’t let Greatjon derail the council and has the North and Riverlands declare for Stannis Baratheon, since Stannis has no need to announce his bid for the throne (him being Robert’s rightful heir regardless of whether he declares it or not). Stannis therefore has no reason to go south for men, and instead coordinates a campaign with Robb and Edmure. Maybe they hold off Tywin while Stannis focuses on his naval blockade. Or maybe Stannis travels to the Riverlands to personally oversee the campaign against Tywin. Yes, Renly would still be a wild card, but I could readily imagine Stannis overcoming Renly’s larger numbers with his superior military tactics. He was besieging Storm’s End with five thousand men and Randyll Tarly was convinced that Stannis could become a serious threat to Renly if Renly just left him alone outside Storm’s End. Now imagine if he was loose in the Riverlands with forty thousand men under his command. And keep in mind, Robb never sends Theon to the Iron Islands in this scenario, so a united North would be able to repel any of Balon’s pitiful attacks. Or maybe Balon grows a brain cell with Stannis against Tywin and decides on his own to raid the Westerlands.

You’ve said this before, but I don’t think I believe that Littlefinger was truly friendly with anyone. He was the one who threw Robert’s realm into chaos for his own ends, I really doubt that he would have helped Renly except to gain power for himself. As soon as Renly outlived his usefulness or as soon as Littlefinger saw an opportunity to seize power for himself, (or as soon as Daenerys showed up over the horizon with her dragons), then Renly would have been done.

Has it ever been confirmed what the protocol is? In The Hedge Knight, the knights of the Kingsguard refuse to participate because they don’t want to joust against Prince Valarr, since they swore not to do him harm. But then later, both Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne have no problem jousting against Rhaegar. So what changed?

Who knows? You might as well ask why the Chinese emperors never sailed east and colonised the Americas before the Europeans did.

I always figured that that was retroactively put in as flattery towards Tywin.

I feel like Varys would have kept a tab on Renly, so that he’d be at least a step ahead. Renly wasn’t exactly a master of subterfuge. He was a very charismatic man who could maneuver courtly politics, and Varys was always more adept at the sinister stuff. That doesn’t mean he would succeed. Especially not by the time of ACOK. Daenerys was too well protected by plot-er I mean loyal followers, ahem. I didn’t mean to blame Renly for that job, I talked about the Master of Laws title on a previous thread, how we never find out just what they do since we never hear Renly bring up anything law related. He doesn’t seem to have any specific responsibilities by the time that the Seven Kingdoms codified the laws during Jaehaerys’ reign.

I find it really hard to believe that Renly could have outsmarted Varys or assassinated Daenerys. There’s a reason why he wasn’t the Master of Whispers instead of Master of Laws (which by the way, what an empty and meaningless job)

Not for long. Someone would have killed him at some point. Either Varys or Tywin or Littlefinger or Daenerys. Also, I don’t think Stannis would have enjoyed becoming a sellsword, even if he was leading the company. Robert should have done that. He was the one who enjoyed fighting and simplicity.

My mistake. I misunderstood the premise, sorry.

So which brother did Brandon hate? Which woman did he desire? And if it’s Meera, why doesn’t he react more strongly to her presence?

It’s been a while since I read that passage, but I thought Gendry was going through an inferiority complex when he realised Arya’s social rank. And wasn’t it obvious by then that Arya had a crush on him? I could have sworn that it was just the two of them lashing out at each other.

That seems more like he was trying to goad Arya, though.

Bloodraven is absolutely evil. I’m guessing that him becoming the three eyed crow is him atoning for all the evil he did in his life. I just hope that the books don’t try to make him some kind of hero, though. He committed some of the most despicable acts in the story.

When do the Valyrians hide what they do? They boast of their conquests all the time. They justify appalling actions because they claim to be better than everyone else. I’d say the Andals and Valyrians have a great deal in common in that regard. And yeah, whatever gods do exist in this universe, they should absolutely be loathed rather than loved.

Big deal. The Andals culturally appropriated a third of an entire continent. They relished in doing it, too.

Odd. I thought he just ignored her and walked away from her. And then Bella asked Arya what was wrong with him. I could have misremembered though.

Reminds me of a conversation I once had with my friend about it. We jokingly envisioned a Les Miserables style uprising amongst the commoners. ”Red! The blood of Lannister men! Black! The dark Targaryen past! Red! The Tyrell flag will fall! Black! The Starks will end at last!”

Bella was seeking out another customer. Gendry showed zero interest whatsoever.

I’ll give you that. Renly does have some funny moments. I’d say his funniest moment was him absolutely busting a gut during the whole Joffrey/Arya situation. I just can’t think of who else resembles him.