Curled Finger

Screw the SCI FI bastards. They are the ones who would have no Battle for Dawn. "That's not where ASOIAF is going. GRRM is a pacifist. He hates war and it would counterintuitive for him to glorify the killing of an entire species in a battle such as you describe..." Oh go read an epic Asminov then.

I think many people know the idea but haven't read the theory. If I'm not mistaken @Lost Melnibonean crafted this wicked bit of theory some years back. The ideas is of course, dreadful, but the theory is...well you would just have to read it to really appreciate what it is. Had the pleasure to post with him a few times in the past. Clever dude and well worth reading.

Yah, I think he sees her even and requisitions the crown back.

I wasn't sure it was Hildy, but she is bawdy I think that's why she stuck out in my mind as the lady with the crown. It was a sex worker wearing a crown proclaiming herself queen o' the whores and dammit, it should have been Hildy. I'm sorry to test your recall here. Baelor is a moron, agreed all the way around and I think Jamie gets that. I was just being silly.

We have been at this so lousy long I'm not even sure what is real opinion and simple shit disturbing much less real theory crafting. Laughable? The one that really made me laugh was Jojen paste. If you ever get a chance to go back and read it, it's brilliant. Very dry and witty and dead pan.

He tries to kick Pia out. He had a thing for Rhaella. I think Hildy is caught wearing one of the crowns and declares herself Queen o' the whores. It was a bad play at being cute. Gotta quit smoking that shade of the Evening so early in the day.

So you don't think he will change his tune now that the working girls have a queen of their own? He likes those queens. Well, one any way.

But I will be really sad if they kill Jamie off before the Battle for Dawn.

We agree on so much I am always surprised when you get to blaspheming Jamie. So yah, I think you are spot on as to his use for LSH. Maybe he gets into the wedding, I don't know, lots of places his face can get into she would want to go. Yet I don't buy his dying yet. Not by this zombie. I go back to that weirwood dream of he and Brienne with the twin swords and blue flame. I expect them to fight together. Big fight, VS, big battle type thing...Then again, I would. My pick for big unexpected death in Winds is the entire Bolton family, most of the Frey family, some jerks at the Wall, Jon Connington, Victarion Greyjoy, maybe Aerion Greyjoy, some Hightowers, some Tyrells...Not Jamie. Not until the light goes out!

OP, your title fits right in with the current motif. Catelyn was my least favorite character alive. She's not making points dead, either. However, eternally hopeful, there are a lot of ways her story could take her. I don't know if I'd like to see her encounter Blackfish or anyone from her past, but I do think she's nearly resurrected for Arya, Jamie & Brienne and the Freys. Her presence assures Jamie will keep his vows whether he wants to or not. Can't wait to read his internal arguments once he's with her. I hope Brienne is there for the same reason and via this connection with the BwB she will be able to recover both Stark girls eventually. Nah, none of them are dead or gonna die on her watch. They are valuable to her and that extends to Pod and Hyle Hunt. Last report I recall, LSH was seen heading to the Neck. It makes a certain sense to me she would be the character to bring Howland Reed into the story. Not just that, but to tell us what happened to Maege and give us some real insight on what's really going on with the plans for the North outside Roose Bolton's dominion. That may be wishful thinking and her story will be firmly seated in the Riverlands where so much will boil over. Plenty to find out right there. This whole vengeance trip glares at the reader. It's obvious Lady Stoneheart is a warning for Arya to cease holding things hard in heart and give up her list. I hope to read that interaction though it will make me cry like a baby. Once the score is settled with the Freys and at least Arya is confirmed alive the revenant will finally die. But I suspect there will be a whole lot of impossible situations before that happens and I will enjoy reading whether this thing has any heart left at all. In the end Thoros is too good natured to have this thing bumming him out like she does. I say get rid of her for his sake if not mine.

The Vale is full of morons anyway. The sat on their honor and bemoaned not being able to go play war because Lysa wouldn't let them. Lysa was certifiable. They should have done something about her soon as they saw what she was doing to their future lord. Good grief. Best thing that happened to them was her um, accident. At least the Clans folk were bold enough to get off their duffs and do something for themselves and Tyrion was smart enough to use their poverty, fierceness and strong desire for revenge to his advantage. Cersei ignores things. Her people riot in the streets from hunger and she feeds the dogs. You can't really compare these two. They have very different motives for the things they do. Cersei doesn't give a single flying care about anything outside herself and the people who directly impact her power. I know the Vale has a lot of fans, but I am not one of them. Some of these people were related to the Starks and we even suspect some may know Alayne is in fact Sansa Stark. Not one of them has the courage to tell her they will help her. The whole place needs a guy like Littlefinger to run them right into the ground. This is exactly where I hope Cersei goes if she leaves Kings Landing. Lousy worthless bunch except the Clans. And Mya. Mya's a good kid.

The nobles of the Vale did treat Tyrion poorly and had every intention of killing him. It is not unreasonable for him to want revenge on these people. He does have a certain amount of power after all. Having been marginalized by so many for so much of his life why not take full advantage of any and all support Tyrion is offered? Tyrion Lannister was innocent of the charges he was condemned for. Having survived the sky cells and a mock trial, why not kill all these f*ckers if he's got the chance to?

Did you have anything to do with poisoning that bitchen weirwood out front of Raventree Hall?

The Brackens.

I don't know. Those Starks are pretty cool as this bunch of noble families go. There is the whole Wintertown deal and a lot of their subjects seem to like them an awful lot. The Nightwatch even likes them and I don't think they even like each other. The rest of Westeros seems to think they are too remote and vast to bother waging war on except the Ironborn, but go figure there. The folks who work for them appear to be very loyal. This tells me the Starks are probably even, fair and maybe even generous with their people. But I think the greatest feat was all that marrying into magic and I can't help but think Winterfell is either magical itself or built upon a magical place. The Starks at least by my reading, seem to have most if not all the powers of the north except necromancy and I am on the fence with greendreams. Maybe greenseeing trumps greendreaming? The Stark kids are powerful magicians which I think will come in real handy considering what's coming.

Oh c'mon, Man. When do vampires ever peacefully cohabitate with werewolves?

Ah magic. Bleeding, beguiling magic. I think Dawn is a key. However, I can't help but be awed by your wonderful description of the light in Dawn and even the unlooked for 7 here. That's just bitchen, LynnS.

Thank you! Just poking a little fun...

Real good gang. I am hopelessly confused now. Gotta go find some rusty rubies on the Gods Eye!

Yah I just never really separated earth and ice magic here. Should have paid more attention to heimal's lessons on elemental magic. Since you bring up the Quiet Isle (I don't think the weirwoods appear any different for all it's worth)...Elder Brother mentions all manner of items washing up on the shores. Among them rusted helms and shining swords. He doesn't mention broken weapons or hilts alone, but might be something to investigate there.

Absolutely. I am trying to apply this thinking to the names of the swords now and the characters I believe will get them. Interesting line of thought. Thanks so much for your never ending patience with me.

I say give the whole bloody kingdom to Margaery. She's sure worked for it.

I can dig it. Oh No. I feel a sword topic coming on...

I swear I am so close to there with you. You know I plod! Everything I have done I have tried to color within the lines, that is the text at hand and we know the text is purposefully wrong. I refer to timeline here. Along this timeline, the Long Night happened long before the Valyrians, much less their steel. I can take Ironborn metals with obsidian. Why not, it says that's what the Ironborn did when everyone else was still using bronze? Nothing says any particular metals or mixed metals wouldn't be magical under COTF power, right? If we can leave Valyrian out of it I can go there. We know dragons were being ridden even then, before Valyrians. As I understand what you offer here, the green or COTF earth magic is a sort of neutralizer against either fire or ice?

This is tough. There are characters I love to hate and specifically read them like some teenager with porn because I get such a kick out of them. Cersei and Tywin do that for me. They make me cringe and I can't not like that. I do not care for Sandor Clegane's foul mouth and gruff ways, but I can't help but appreciate a guy who tries to help the otherwise helpless Stark girls. Soft spot, sorry. I hate those nasty C players like Rorge and Biter and all those creepy ass buggers Dany is forever crossing paths with along with the bigger boogey men like Gregor and Vargo. The POVs give me a look inside so it's really hard to hate them. Even Victarion when you see what a dumbass he is. I think the Green Grace is nasty and Dany just gets the hell out of Mereen post haste. I can't read much more of those backward assholes.