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Curled Finger

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  1. I thought Jonquil was just a way of paving Brienne's path. So much is made of Brienne's self identification as a knight, but she is not the first and it can be a successful and rewarding career despite her gender. I thought the really missed opportunity was to introduce Florian the Fool as another woman into her story.
  2. Nightfall? Well, I ran into an idea that Nightfall would be 1) the opposite of Dawn 2) maybe match Euron's VS suit. This is not my idea, but I think it has some merit. I believe there will be 12 Heroes and Swords + 1 Hero and Dawn when it all comes down. I hesitate to just throw Vigilance out there because GRRM hasn't actually brought it up it at all other than historical mention. While I think it is probably still with the Hightowers, I don't know it is. What we do have is Shadoq and later Caggo's arakh. This only came to light with Blood & Fire. Lamentation could be not destroyed or Brightroar could be discovered, but I think both unlikely. There is a certain math to these swords at least so far. As to Longclaw all I can offer is the history already given. It's not anything other than Longclaw and Jon's training sword and the Mormont's ancestral sword. Longclaw is the sword of oathbreakers and will be among the finalists in the battle for dawn to come.
  3. Pod's just a little boy and though Egg was a prince in disguise, he was also just a little boy. The parallels between D&E and B&P are many and inverted with Brienne being the noble where Dunk was a commoner. Pod isn't a commoner, but he also isn't far from it, his house described as impoverished. Pod doesn't have to be in disguise to make this inversion work completely.
  4. I don't think it's possible VS as alternative magic existed during TLN. There was only milkglass and dragonglass. I think this milkglass is a likely candidate for dragonsteel. It's not stated that the Others were slain, only driven back beyond the Wall. Thanks to the children, the first men of the Night's Watch banded together and were able to fight—and win—the Battle for the Dawn: the last battle that broke the endless winter and sent the Others fleeing to the icy north. TWOIAF The Long Night In that the magical weapons available at the time of The Long Night were perhaps incapable of killing the Others, it's entirely possible that this super magicked-up Valyrian Steel may be the ultimate weapon against the Others. Longclaw, Lady Forlorn, Oathkeeper, Widows Wail, Blackfyre, Red Rain, Dark Sister, Truth, Orphan-Maker, Heartsbane and possibly 2 more named VS swords may do the real trick this time around. I really wanted to add +/- 500 years to all the dates I originally offered, but feared that would make the statements too ambiguous. However, even +/- 1000 years doesn't help the advent of VS happen anywhere close to The Long Night. It is entirely possible that the Valyrians were as attached and interested in prophesy as Rhaegar was and that VS was invented for TPTWP in order to fulfill prophesy. Certainly for a specifically magical purpose. I think it was the fine properties associated with VS that made the swords highly desirable for martial use in foreign lands like Westeros. Who doesn't want a beautiful, dark, perpetually sharp, well balanced weapon that has a will of its own?
  5. We haven't yet seen an interaction between LSH and another character like Olyver or Perwyn or Jeyne or Reynald. I don't believe that this incarnation of Catelyn Stark is concerned so much with the WOT5K as the horrible murder of what she believed to be her last surviving child...as well as herself. As last Stark standing, Cat would bear all the horror and grief and betrayal in bearing witness and being a victim. Look, I'm not a Cat fan. Even a little bit. Her murder of Jinglebell proved the extent of her madness in the moments. Not a Cat move at all, but a terrorized victim of unimaginable horror. She died nearly alone in that horror having witnessed most of the Red Wedding before her own violent death. What says the introduction of someone who loved Robb, her son, not the king, wouldn't move her to a sense of comfort? I doubt she would turn Grey Wolf away or have him harmed in any way had he survived and turned up. She didn't want the wolf near her children at 1st, but Grey Wind proved his value. Your line about fine justice is perfect. Fine justice indeed. I was trying to illustrate that fine justice in naming Westerlings she wanted nothing to do with along with a direwolf she feared for a long time. While you may be right about LSH having no conscience or feeling beyond vengeance, we don't know it until a verifiable interaction is read. There is a chance Jeyne Westerling will cross LSH's path. I'm holding out for that exchange.
  6. I think Tywin is as responsible as any other player in the plotting of the Red Wedding. In the state I live in a person found guilty of conspiracy is as guilty as those who carry out the plan. There are not really levels of engagement here. Would stupid Walder Frey have ever been able to dream up such a grandiose plan? I think not. A killer--no--an efficient killer had to have the idea. I can appreciate the concept of war crime but I cannot give it a pass.
  7. Let's talk shop. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. AGOT Eddard X Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. ASOS Samwell I The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor. AGOT Prologue Milk glass is an opaque or translucent, milk white or colored glass that can be blown or pressed into a wide variety of shapes. Wiki Having established the quotes tying Dawn to the Other's weapon and defined milkglass, we have have descriptions of Valyrian Steel. "Ice," that sword was called. It was as wide across as a man's hand, and taller even than Robb. The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel. AGOT Bran I The pommel was a hunk of pale stone weighted with lead to balance the long blade. It had been carved into the likeness of a snarling wolf's head, with chips of garnet set into the eyes. The grip was virgin leather, soft and black, as yet unstained by sweat or blood. The blade itself was a good half foot longer than those Jon was used to, tapered to thrust as well as slash, with three fullers deeply incised in the metal. Where Ice was a true two-handed greatsword, this was a hand-and-a-halfer, sometimes named a "bastard sword." Yet the wolf sword actually seemed lighter than the blades he had wielded before. When Jon turned it sideways, he could see the ripples in the dark steel where the metal had been folded back on itself again and again. "This is Valyrian steel, my lord," he said wonderingly. His father had let him handle Ice often enough; he knew the look, the feel. AGOT Jon VIII OK, now we have descriptions of milkglass and Valyrian Steel swords. The first sort are a whiteish color where the second are dark along the grey black spectrums. There is no mistaking one for the other. While Dawn could certainly be Old Ice, we have no description of Old Ice. The only other comparable blade is that belonging to the Others. Westeros is said to have been "discovered" by the masses of 1st Men some 8 to 10 thousands years ago. Valyria is thought to have been established some 5000 years ago. The 1st Men employed bronze as the main material for their weapons until the Andals brought steel, some 3000 years ago. One can assume that steel as a material for making weapons was already in fairly wide use outside Westeros when the Andals arrived. Valyria expanded upon the crafting of weapons aggregating steel, magic and dragon fire creating Valyrian Steel. I don't think we can credit Valyria with discovering steel, as they do seem to have enhanced the properties where the Andals seem to be the people who introduced steel to Westeros. Valyrian Steel is not known to have existed in Westeros prior to 500 years ago, based upon known house claims which is debatable. What is not debatable is that Old Ice could not have been made of Valyrian Steel. Maybe milkglass, as the Daynes are said to have established their house in Westeros some 10,000 years ago. OK, timeline established strictly according to text. Who knows what really happened or when? It is safe to assume that Valyrian Steel came much later than milkglass colored weapons. Dawn could fit into the Lightbringer scenario according to history. The Daynes could have fought in the last battle of the Long Night. I have a pet theory that House Stark was established by a Dayne bastard, but that's neither here nor there. The best Ice could have been is bronze if it is the Lightbringer of legend separate from Dawn. I tend to think it was more along the lines of Dawn or the Others' blades. Again, not important. What is probably most important when measuring Dawn against Lightbringer is in the naming. What is dawn if not a light bringer? Where does Ice fit into this? I don't think it does. Old Ice is something else. Maybe it's Dawn? Ice is not the only Valyrian Steel sword in the story that was named for an earlier not VS sword. Lady Forlorn has been around a very long time, perhaps as far back as the founding of the Vale. So you have 2 bronze or steel ancestral swords resurrected in Valyrian Steel. Is it safe to categorize Ice and Lady Forlorn in the same category? Yes. I think it goes to the idea that replacing a lost ancestral sword was a big deal to 1st Men. We already know it was very important to Tywin. Just so happens that The Starks and Corbrays were fortunate in obtaining Valyrian Steel replications of their heirlooms. Poor Tywin. Certainly we are nearly challenged to look for more than what we read in ASOIAF and I have adopted a very narrow view of the advents of the magical swords for my own sanity if not a reasonable argument. Longclaw is as much a mystery as the Mormonts. Longclaw is not old Ice or Lightbringer. Did you know a Longclaw is a bird? How the hell does that fit in with bears or wolves or light bringers or long nights or ice demons? Maybe it doesn't. Maybe all that is important about Longclaw is that Jon has it because Jorah couldn't bring himself to sell it. There is a loyalty to house and family in this. What are Jon and Jorah? They are both oathbreakers. If Jon is a Targaryan king he will carry the Targaryan sword of kings, not oathbreakers. There is another oathbreaker in this tale who should be able to wield Longclaw in a most decisive and useful way. I don't think it matters where or how Longclaw came about. I think it's House Mormont and to a lesser degree, the affinity with oathbreakers that is important with this sword. While I can appreciate the logic you put forth, history/timelines don't support it. Have you ever read the magical swords and legends without adding anything to what you're told? I've tried, it's not easy, but it has helped make a few connections I couldn't make while looking for things I don't read are there. This story has millions of holes in it.
  8. Missing Persons is fun. The Red Wedding and all its after math is not. That said, this is a good question. I am reluctant to deny LSH's humanity in her new being. It is that crown turning. Over and over. I would think that anyone who was loyal to Robb would be attached to whatever memories she's having in that crown turning. She was utterly merciless in the hanging of Merrett Frey, which cannot be discounted. She is vengeance, not justice. Though she does seem to be extremely single minded in her methodical extermination of those she considers enemies she may find some sort of mercy for those who were proven loyal to Robb.
  9. You are 100% correct, please forgive my misinterpretation of the word. It is a very odd word to use in this curse as "quickening" can occur as early as 17 weeks. With this in mind, I cannot even begin to imagine how badly this will go for us as readers. That 1st one was plenty bad enough.
  10. I skimmed the reply at first and saw Everybody who isn't Stannis... In light of the strong indication that the NW vows were changed and the legend of the NK coupled with the obvious need for Free Folk safety and help, I think it's quite possible that Jon did a very good job at the Wall. Institutional customs don't outweigh the changes the NW needs to make in order to perform their true essential duty. I wonder how radical Jon's actions will appear by end game.
  11. Anyone could end up king in this story. Jon would hate it.
  12. Dragon babies have been born of the Targaryans. The only instances I recall are Maegor's and Rhaego, but there are others. Seems to me this specific instance of birth denotes actual dragon blood in the line. I like the magic, heap it on. While literally having blood of dragons may not be godliness it definitely indicates "otherness" which allows the Targs superhuman power. Dreams, visions, command of dragons--that seems to be the type of magic that could stand up next to any of the heroes from the Age of Heroes. And kick any of their asses. Dragons are a pretty big deal. I've always understood Dany got sick and miscarried by eating the berries. Being an organic purgative, the berries would have the same reaction on any human type being. She hasn't got the pale mare. She ingested a type of moon tea. Real world science aside, Dany's womb quickened. That was the only part of the deal. Mirri didn't say she had to give birth to a live child or endure a full term pregnancy. I am hoping this is an indication that she may actually have a child someday.
  13. We were all over that one. Topic got derailed. What's next? What have you got for Longclaw?
  14. "Problem is bronze as weapons hasn't been commonly employed since before the Andals, thousands of years in the past." "You're mistaking it with steel. Andals brough steel, not bronze. First Men used bronze extensively." Defense not offense.
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