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Curled Finger

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  1. A bizarro Florida indeed. Keep in mind there are hot springs that warm the walls of Winterfell, so there is some geothermic possibility at play. For all it's worth I am originally from Florida and though it was usually 80 degrees on Christmas there, there have been many times the citrus crops were ruined by freezes. Swamps freeze too, but I'm thinking this warm spring at Winterfell may have tentacles in the Neck that could protect it from 80' snows. And magic. Always magic. If wildlings are the closest to the original 1st Men then the Crannogmen are the closest to the COTF humans can get.
  2. Sorry it took me so long to reply you know my mind was spinning with questions! LynnS, I wonder what it could mean if Crasters women did go underground. They didn't seem totally happy with the way they left their home. Most of use anticipate Bran will make use of the underground tunnels and rivers to get away from BR's cave. You've got me imagining the women capturing Bran and trying to give him over to the Others. What stops that train from derailing is Gilly not wanting to lose her baby. Her sweet mother's love was focused on the living human being as opposed to some distant sacrifice. She really did everything she could to keep that boy which sounds nothing like the talk she was given about the well, unopposable sacrificing. How exactly did Craster women feel about the sacrifices? Like you I believe places are significant here. Beyond the Wall we've got far fewer places to zoom in on. Whitetree is as good a place as any for ancient arcane knowledge to be stored and passed generation to generation. Make Craster's back story pregnant with just the worst possibilities. My head's going to explode with crazy ideas about the Others.
  3. Hey Wiz, it's always great to read your posts. No arguments here only a small point for consideration insofar as wildlings sacrificing... We read in the World Book that there are wildlings who worship strange gods. Further, we read about the 1st Men having their own strange gods they brought with them to Westeros. In that the wildlings are said to be true remnants of the 1st Men perhaps those strange gods are the very gods they brought, perhaps they are the Others and maybe they are weirwoods, but it's just left without further elaboration. Rereading the passages got me wondering if the 1st Men didn't bring the Others over. Just for fun thought!~
  4. Sorry, I hit the submit reply before finishing above. 1st things 1st! Yes, the Blackwoods have an enormous tree at their home, Raventree Hall. Thousands of ravens flock to it though it has been dead for many years. Those lousy Brackens... Ah ha--a most curious and fun mystery that whole Pact of Ice and Fire deal. We do, however, have the possibility of a union between the bastard sister of Lord Stark and one of Rhaenyra's sons. Love it! Not a Stark, but the Blackwoods are First Men and our Bloodraven is at least north/south First Men/Targ match his own bad self. We would have nothing to do if we did not have delicious speculation!
  5. Ah thanks. The Others have their own language: The Other said something in a language that Will did not know; his voice was like the cracking of ice on a winter lake, and the words were mocking. AGOT Prologue You cannot reason with or exchange insults with someone you can't understand. However, there does appear to be inflection with intent in whatever the Other said. I've read a ton of ideas about the COTF being the ultimate baddies in the story, but I think they are probably somewhere between good and bad. Maybe they did create the Others or maybe they have simply existed with them and understand them. Either way, the COTF are in much better shape than humans. Who knows? Maybe the Others' reappearance has nothing do do with humans at all. Maybe there are so few COTF left they are unable to fulfill an agreement like The Pact only with The Others. I can see where the COTF struck a bargain with The Others on behalf of humans, who would be no more than meat with metals they hate. Maybe beating hearts stink? Someone somewhere in all the madness of Westeros done dropped a ball. Then again, you could be absolutely correct about the COTF being the real bad guys. I resigned myself to no happy endings in this tale.
  6. Wow LynnS, great input as usual. Thank you so much! I need to know if your opening paragraph indicates that The Others are just a band of Wildlings? That's a first if so. If I have misunderstood, please elaborate! We know the NW made sacrifices to -------? under NK's er, dominion, but to be honest I have a really hard time with NQ being OK with her babies being disposed of. Perhaps it was not babies sacrificed. If not, have you any guess as to what the sacrifices may have been? See, I think having those 3rd sons go off to the NW is a strange thing and ancient practice, but it seems there are shields from many many houses in the Shield Hall. Always considered this as First Men's sacrifices for the defense of the land. I believe Benjen was always intended to join the Watch, just as Waymar went after him. Defense requires sacrifice. We bandy about ideas for the emergence of The Others. I think it is far less to do with births of prophecy than negligence of The Pact with the COTF. If over thousands of years First Men's families have forgotten their promise or promises while remaining protected...The COTF seem to be keeping pretty much to their areas. I confuse the books and show so I will leave you to the text as to the fates of those unfortunate Craster survivors. I remember a fire and a small group of them going away not wishing to stay at the keep. It's good to see you.
  7. May be a case of chicken or egg here. Necromancy is raising the dead, not skin changing though I don't discount skin changing animates the dead. Nonetheless, my understanding of the histories indicates that The Others were doing their thing long before House Stark was even established. The kings of winter had many er talents including skin changing but certainly not limited to skin changing. Perhaps the Others have lost one of the other magical talents? Bran is right there in the thick of things surrounded by COTF and seemingly protected from the Others in his place. Perhaps dead is all The Others can affect with whatever their power is and they want to conquer the living employing all the talents the Starks possess--greensight, necromancy, skin changing, clairvoyance and whatever magic the Red Kings possessed.
  8. But how is the real question here. Early in the thread it was discussed how really unlikely any real communication is with The Others. Still there is some ancient knowledge that may have been preserved in the tales of a single father husband with a captive audience. We know all the people of Westeros relish their histories and legends. We loathe Craster for many reasons, it's very easy to overlook any honest or true quality he may have had. Perhaps this portion of what I imagine could be some part of the Pact and the preservation of the ritual sacrifice is the only true we get from this character. I read the term soul memory used in conjunction with instinct. Perhaps conditions as vital as those possibly outlined in the pact of the Children and 1st Men may have some fundamental role to play in the making of this culture. Why not? I think the 3rd son to the Watch may be a thing like this and wonder if there is not more to the legend of Brave Danny Flynt. Sorry, didn't mean to digress here.
  9. Ok, I'll bite. What do The Others actually want or need skin changer blood for? The Starks' blood contains far more magic than skin changing. They are wildly psychic. Seems to me whatever the possession of dead bodies is called it is much like skin changing so far as I can see the skill suits what I have seen of The Others.
  10. That's actually interesting. Why would you think Targaryen blood would be valuable to The Others? I don't see that often related. It is possible I see end game where The Others are concerned, but not so much where Dragons be. Fire as a driving life force where Ice is more a preservation of the same. Best I can immediately come up with is that much (human) needed frozen fire, but I can't see others wanting any of that around.
  11. Hopefully the White Book was kept up regularly and Hightower wrote down specific details of his last trip out of Kings Landing.
  12. No, it doesn't likely matter, still I would like to know what he thought he was doing--where and how he learned about the sacrifices.
  13. Ah Seams, you always bring the unexpected to a conversation. I would think many groups point to other groups in this story. But to Craster's girls specifically...Sam stole Gilly and her baby as you described. Now we know Sam really is a BAMF despite his protestations. In my estimation this is a parallel not only to wildling mating ritual but to the stealing of valuable assets. Sam isn't an Other of course, but Gilly and the baby are something very special I imagine. As a brother of the NW Sam has pulled off something of an NK move in taking Gilly and sex aside, simply loving her and the boy. The brothers at Castle Black certainly had to put up with her residing with them, which they weren't all particularly happy about. The contribution of seed doesn't happen for 2 more books! But there is something in this love affair with Gilly and her living among the brothers. You know full well I can't put my finger on it, but I know it's there. Craster is very clear about telling the visiting NW brothers not to even speak to his wives. He was protecting them from er infiltration no doubt, but I wonder if there wasn't more in that too. Something beyond or bigger than the women being impregnated by well strange. As in not Craster. Whatever the deal was it was his deal. NK seems to have bent his brothers to his will and got them to participate in his unholy practices, whether that is giving their seed or children or something so awful I have not yet imagined it. This is plenty bad enough. I know we are supposed to see NK in Craster, but it isn't perfect according to legend. The real NK had help doing whatever he was doing while Craster was really a 1 man show...until Sam showed up at any rate.
  14. Is anything really simple in this tale?
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