Curled Finger

You know, I think it's almost got to come out from Meera to Bran or Bran to Jon. This act means something, binds Ned to Howland in gratitude and Howland was bound to Lyanna in kind. You would think all debts were paid in all these acts of valor or whatever caused this gratitude, but no, Reed send not simply his heir or only son, he sends both his children to see one of Ned's on quest. This bond of kinship, stewardship, duty I don't even know what to call it between Howland and Ned, didn't end with Ned even a little bit. Meera and Jojen are all of Reed's children far as I can tell. They don't appear to be asking for anything in return. Howland is willing to risk the future of his house for Bran, not even an heir to house Stark. Surely Reed knows this. Very interesting relationship here. Can't wait for the next smallest mention of Howland, events at the Tower of Joy--all of it.

Yah? The whole thing is bogus story. Too many holes. Still, Reed did something Ned did not expect. Eyebrow raises...this is Meera and Jojen's father, after all. This feat of whatever transpired will be remarkable or horrifying, maybe both. All I'm sure of is that Ned seems awed in the way regret and gratitude can both bring you to your knees sort of awed. Not magic, not skill, but something loyal, horribly loyal maybe? I'm not even sure what that could be I just expect it to be surprising. Right on, what a cool thing to think about this evening. Thanks for the inspiration, Egg!

Nono, you're not seeing this happening. Dayne swipes and misses. Dawn is downward. Many roped net of fearsome marshish quality completely encompasses said knight in full downward swipe. He is stuck, immobilized, like a bull at the rodeo. Ned says "Dude!". Howland says "Dude, what?".

Welcome princess, that's sure a way to start a conversation. Best to keep show and books conversations separate here though. So let's discuss the book relationship between Arya and The Hound and/or Sansa and Joffrey. I am curious as to how masculinity plays into your thinking with regard to Joffrey. Is it how the Kingsguard react to commands and carry out their duties? I'm sorry, I just don't see masculinity in Joffrey, just a pathetic spoiled brat really. Maybe masculinity is better explored in the relationship of The Hound and Sansa? Sandor Clegane is a hard man. I consider him to be quite macho, but I know what I consider to be masculine. I think the question is what you consider to be masculine. His abilities to protect Sansa and Arya and want to ring most true in my estimation. In the world Martin has built that is a rare and beautiful quality despite the package. Does that help at all?

To Lady's survival I think the most obvious outcome is Joffrey's earlier more discreet demise. Lady would simply smother him in his sleep, all polite and mannerly. Lady or not, no way she would allow her girl to suffer that abuse.

Yep, but he deserves several mentions. Good on ya!

Great, but no date? You would rather spend a dark and stormy evening with Corvo or James than story swapping with me?

This walks that line, Peaches. Within the bounds of the conversations we have here as adult readers are we actually wishing anything on characters or simply trying to use the tools Martin has given us to figure out what will happen? I've read through here a couple of times. I believe I said Randyll should be beheaded for treason. This supposes Cersei or someone not in Aegon's camp would take him prisoner (oh the embarrassment for such a great military mind) and publicly lop his big head off (shame, shame shame). What I didn't take into consideration is in that scenario House Tarly would likely be given over to someone else. So my idea won't likely work. Still I don't see Sam being an active participant in his father's demise, either. In a book club, which is really all this is here, we aren't dealing with reality. This is an epic fantasy series with magic and dragons and all sorts of strange things. We are required to suspend our modern morality and beliefs in order to immerse, so we do and are transported into some of the best story telling of the last century. Death is so final. Permanent. In Martins' case it allows for more story to open up. In reality story merely ends. Once Dany finally gets to Westeros and all the conversations are in their 3rd iterations, we shall find ourselves on a dark and stormy night, Peaches. Everyone I have ever wished dead is gone now and I would like to tell you the story of that last one. I would like to hear your stories whatever state those you may have wished death on may be in. Until then, we have a harpy to identify and heroes to match with swords and this wonderful epic to keep us from thinking about the people who bug us!

Ah James, I don't think it's weird or creepy so much as simple fantasy. How many of us in real life would actually hurt anyone? How many of us cradle insects and carry them out of the house? ASOIAF is brilliant. These characters and situations draw our ire and judgement and concern and we have our lines of sensibility. I like getting outside myself and saying Fuck the King with an angry Hound when I would never in my wildest moment say it out loud on this side of the page. This conversation is a testament to the power of well drawn characters and that's all, my friend. Randyll and Sam get under our skin. ASOIAF is also a great puzzle. Maybe one of us got that Randyll end piece right here. That's part of the fun too, guessing what Martin will do with these nasty people he's drawn. Relax, you are not among dangerous violent people, just a bunch of fantasy geeks.

Wouldn't have been any of these problems if these bratty kids had had Sesame Street, No siree Bob.

I do wonder which direction her story will go and who she will run into, like Olyvar Frey. We've got her men wearing The Hound's helm and seeming bewitched doing all sorts of evil in his name, what's up with that? This is not my good time Thoros I know and love. Is she really running an orphanage? Has she talked with Gendry? Hasn't Gendry told her Brienne tried to save them? Told them she was asking about Sansa? Either LSH doesn't listen or doesn't know is all I got here. By the same token Thoros seems sort of hopeless? Like he doesn't want to really be with LSH yet there he is. He's not out front leading cheers anymore. He says something about remembering justice the implication being this isn't justice? What did you get from the line?

@HugorfonicsI gotta hand it to you, I don't know where you took debate, but you do know how to make me laugh through an argument. I have learned to enjoy Catelyn far more over the years than I did initially and it wasn't even over Jon, though I do get the turn off with the whole ugly wicked step mother thing. I was good to my step kids, but that is neither here nor there. I didn't dig her leaving the little ones, that's what I didn't understand, then you have to remember a man is writing this and yah. This mother of the year comes off like a man wrote her so when I can leave it there I'm good with her. And her chapters really are some of the very best, no lie. Maybe that's where my hard line on LSH stems from. He does not get what being a mother is, so this wraith of a woman who died in horrific grief, trauma, violence...who lay dead in the river for 3 days...nope. Not going to be right. A person who survived it would not be right. Have I just yanked myself from fantasy? Perhaps it is all that King coming to the surface. She's not a fantasy zombie I reckon, but more of some of that wonderful horror Martin writes so well.

I will stay drunk with Thoros if you promise to get off the Shade of the Evening. My Dude, I never liked Catelyn in the first place, though I get where she was trying to be a good guy. LSH ain't a good guy. Dead way too long, reanimated by a multiple dead & resurrected dead guy. This can't be good even under good conditions it can't be good. My boy, the drunk, wouldn't go there. LSH will end up doing some good, but not because that is her intention but because her author is a hippy.

And Tytos' stupidity. Never forget that, it caused a lot of trouble.

Yah, no more bed time stories for Sweet Robin. That's just mean.