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Curled Finger

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About Curled Finger

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  1. Curled Finger

    A Single PoV from a Secondary Character

    I doubt he's a monster at all. Sandor's actions speak louder than his words, particularly with regard to his sense of protectiveness toward little girls. I think in his head we could get some clarification on what this anticipated change of his could be. If you think back on your 1st read through weren't you surprised when you got to see what Cersei and Jamie and Brienne thought? Those character thoughts illuminated so much for me.
  2. Curled Finger

    A Single PoV from a Secondary Character

    Most of us predict Jon and The Hound will somehow be changed when we next encounter them. Given the harshness of The Hound, I'd like a few minutes in his head to see what really changed.
  3. Curled Finger

    Does Stannis have a chance at winning in the end?

    Stannis has no chance of winning the IT, though I really would like to see him get there. He will win much in the North and as has been said above, time will come for Stannis to choose what he will fight for next, the throne or survival. I think Stannis will finally get some hard won acceptance if not love in the North, along with overwhelming support to march south. I think he will head North to get the Wall in order after Jon's incapacitation as there is sure to be much turmoil there and he's got to settle the Nightfort--it is his seat in the North. I expect this is precisely where the Others become prominent in a present way in the story.
  4. Curled Finger

    Euron or Jon Snow?

    I always read the bit about "manhood cold as ice" to infer a sort of horror at this coupling from Dany's perspective. She's facing her first real agreement to political marriage. Still she's taken with the sell sword. Lots of conflict there. She doesn't want to marry Hizdar, but she will because she sees this as her duty and a means to an end--peace in Mereen. That's no different that Robert marrying Cersei, really. There could well be warning in her dreams without actual prophesy. I can't see Dany willingly sleeping with Victarion or Euron. They are not her kind of swaggering good looking young guy willing to worship her. They are not kings she has to compromise for. Euron is certainly set to be important in a very murky way we cannot yet realize while Victarion is really sort of a big dumb clod. Not to mention that her husband, Hizdar, is still very much alive. Dany gets small hints about Jon Snow. She never sees his face or hears his name. Her visions and dreams tend to be all about self realization and purpose. A blue flower growing from the chink in a wall of ice can't possibly mean much to Dany at this point. We don't know that Dany even knows the biggest hint that we do, Rhaegar's gift to Lyanna at Harrenhal. Dany's blue flower in this context is small--a sort of alternative or final destination in terms of prophesy. Barely on her radar. Until she becomes aware of all the information we have or a dream clearly defines Jon Snow, Dany cannot know what this blue flower is. Will Jon Snow return to normal activities unchanged? That's doubtful. The term "wight" denotes a lack of thinking ability and that's not where the hero of the entire story is headed. Jon will likely find himself wanting scalding baths as Ghost when he returns. His Targaryen traits have to come out sooner or later so why not as a consequence of these circumstances? Perhaps it will be a subtle as his burned hand being completely restored. Either way Jon has to not only demonstrate some of his other (fire) magical abilities, he's got to acknowledge the magical abilities he already knows he's got. That's a long way of saying Jon's got to identify himself before anyone else can.
  5. Curled Finger

    What if Rhaegar had survived the Battle of the Trident?

    Rhaegar had the support of the Crownlands, Reach and tentative Dorne. The other 4 major players were rebelling and I stress that Dorne was only tentatively supporting Rhaegar as he'd already "dishonored" Elia at Harrenhal. This is a guess based upon the statements of Doran and Oberyn and just a guess. Either way, there was more populace and power against Rhaegar than with him. I have to imagine that Rhaegar was pretty villainized by the time Rickard & Brandon were killed. Rhaegar was absent for much of the fighting--whether he was in counsel or unaware of the turn of his favor among the masses. Insofar as acts of war go, I think Aerys made the 1st cut in killing the Starks, but there is room for debate as Brandon did threaten to kill the crown prince right outside the gate. Either way, Rhaegar already caused his own er fall from grace at Harrenhal. Brandon was a hot head and Aerys was truly mad. Aerys' actions for years prior to Harrenhal and the eventual rebellion were the reason for the alliances between the North, Vale and Riverlands as well as the interest of the Westerlands. Tywin was pretty patient in joining the fray. There was never an iota of inference that Tywin would come to Aery's aid. My initial comments went to actual physical support, that is close friends and dependable allies at the Trident. Robert had an impressive campaign going and I think Rhaegar was seriously out of touch with politics and Robert's support at the time. Personally, I think he had a higher calling, but what do I know? Do you think Rhaegar would have had a better chance of surviving the Trident if his close friends, allies and Kingsguard were with him when he took Robert on? I'm not sure even Robert could take all the Kingsguard on even to get to Rhaegar. As I see this in my limited vision, Rhaegar either overestimated his place in prophecy or he was simply going through the motions. The whole thing could have been handled much better and maybe without bloodshed. I'm not certain how many years younger than Robert Stannis is, but I'm thinking 2 years. It's likely my modern view of manhood, but Robert was only 18 or 19 when he had 16 or 17 year-old Stannis commanding his ships. Just a boy, but to your own argument, a damned successful commander for a kid. Still just a kid, though. But so was Robert. Sigh. To Viserys, I don't think Rhaella had the power to deny anything her husband said was so. If Aerys said his younger son was heir, he was heir. I find little fault in your explanations and arguments and tip my hat to an interesting conversation, Ser.
  6. Curled Finger

    The Starks

    You are a better foreshadow reader than I, Man. I thought Stannis ran scared 1st read. As to your 1st query, no, Stannis was not an original "player" insofar as mass support went. That came later and then he was defeated. Poor Stannis was the victim of incredibly bad timing. Gotta agree that the Stark tragedies have been set up from nearly the get go here. I'm still not convinced Stannis will amount to King, but he seems to have pulled his head out of his sense of duty to get down to actually helping at least part of the realm. I'm still hoping he gets an amazing triumph before he is tragically killed off.
  7. Curled Finger

    Cleganebowl at the Nightfort?

    My oft referenced friend had the same idea as you so rock on, Man. Your tinfoil is always fun for helping to look at a possibility.
  8. Curled Finger

    Harrenhal's tourney, then what?

    He's a son of Targaryens from Valyria. His future sister brought dragons back into the world. I'm pretty sure the Targs and Starks are magical beings.
  9. Curled Finger

    What if Rhaegar had survived the Battle of the Trident?

    I like this conversation and the options put forth for speculation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most of Rhaegar's true supporters (thinking Connington and Martel foremost here) were already gone or dead by the time Rhaegar met up with Robert? I always wondered why Rhaegar even bothered to meet up with his rival at the Trident? The odds were not in his favor. There is no way Rhaegar could have stood against Robert in a simple 1:1 physical contest, armor be damned. This does not sit right with me. The rebels had to be dealt with eventually, but they seemed especially strong at this point. Why not wait it out and let the foe numbers thin? Rhaegar had no real support at the time. Why meet in battle instead of trying diplomacy? Gads, we know Robert can be talked to and with. Wouldn't have been smarter to call for a treaty? Was Rhaegar really that dumb? No, I gotta believe he thought he had something up his sleeve. He just wasn't that fabulous a fighter to go up against Robert. Back to your scenario...what if? I have to check my conclusions against what history tells us. Rhaegar was not the only heir and may have even been disinherited by the time he got to the Trident. This says that Rhaegar himself was not the key to taking control of anything. Aerys' death controlled everything. Aerys' death created the void for (insert any name here) to fill. Of course, if Rhaegar won all, the Trident and killed Robert, would it even matter if he was in fact disinherited? We would have lousy freaking Viserys as king, with little Dany to follow as his sister wife. Then we could have had a dance of Targaryens and who would come out on top there among the nobility? Had the war continued, I doubt Stannis would be crowned anything and expect the whole thing would fizzle out eventually so far as non-Targ rebellion goes. Lyanna would have still died in childbirth, but had Rhaegar lived, Jon would have had a very interesting story in his true identity. If Rhaegar won all and events still unfolded as they did at Kings Landing (death and more death), who would support him? Jon Arryn was a big player in the rebellion, but he was also a diplomat. He would have used all his influence for peace. Would that be enough to prevent another civil war?
  10. Curled Finger

    Cleganebowl at the Nightfort?

    Hey Man, good to see you! So hrm, prophecy? Why Cleganes when it could easily be direwolves instead? Geez, Brother, even sweet Shaggy Dog fights with sweet little unicorns!
  11. Curled Finger

    Why didn't Robert try to hunt down Viserys and Daenerys?

    Curiously, Robert didn't seem to light up on the Targs until he learned that Dany was pregnant. He seemed to be fine with the killing of dragon babies. Jerk for now. Let's see if he was right to go after Dany at all after she gets to Westeros.
  12. Curled Finger

    The Starks

    Gotta agree with most here that the Stark family has suffered the consequences of war with Tywin Lannister, directly or indirectly, Big Daddy Tywin was no one to mess around with. Ned called him to answer for his crimes in the Riverlands while recovering from an injury Jamie gave him. Though there were 5 kings, the only 2 who really mattered at the top level were Joffrey and Robb. Then they went the way of the Dodo just like Balon and Renly. Last man standing? Who would have predicted Stannis would survive even Tywin? Who could have predicted that Stannis would become an ally of the entire North and Jon Snow in particular? Though the Starks have suffered greatly I think we feel it because they are nearly all made sympathetic to us--I believe they are written that way. I don't think that Renly or Joffrey or Balon or even Tywin were written to make us feel for them the way the Starks were. The way Brienne and Sam are. Gads now I'm wondering if I'm supposed to be feeling what I feel for Stannis!
  13. Curled Finger

    Harrenhal's tourney, then what?

    It occurred to me that Rhaegar was probably a pretty good guy who was way too hung up on prophecy. I give him a little slack due to his being a magical being and all. The tourney at Harrenhal may well have been a cover for some grand conspiracy against Aerys in favor of the larger concerns of the overall kingdom. That fits with Rhaegar and his statements to Jamie. With this in mind I think it's likely that the tourney was designed to put feelers out for Rhaegar at the very least. I think it was prophecy that turned Rhaegar from his true intentions here. We don't really know what happened between Rhaegar and Lyanna, but I'm leaning toward some meeting while he was out looking for the Knight of the Laughing Tree that led to discussion and some sort of new inspiration for Rhaegar. The only thing I know Lyanna was definitely interested in is horses and taking her vassals seriously. She spent a lot of time and effort on Howland Reed, regardless whether she was the mystery knight or not. For all I know, prophecy was a big deal to her, too. Anything could have happened between the son of fire and daughter of ice that isn't easily relegated to lust or infatuation. Jon's birth and our acceptance of Jon's importance makes their meeting important to the powers of fate in ASOIAF. Jon was destined for something, be it TPTWP or just a great diplomat and unifier, I believe his birth was 100% intentional by both of his parents. In short, bringing Jon into the world was much more important than a great council or deposing his father or even ruling the realm, to his father and maybe his mother, too.
  14. Curled Finger

    Why I like...

    Fun! Why I like...MELISANDRE The Red Priestess... GRRM has said that she is the most misunderstood character. Pondering this I stumbled upon the following: She's got visions of the greater evil. This is rare and without more intel, maybe the most we will get of the point and purpose of The Others. She motivates a major royal contender while seemingly contradicts him. She seems to have compassion for her greatest human foe, Davos. In this she understands how much she is misunderstood. Yet she does nothing to promote her good intentions so that anyone can actually see what she's done. She's got no problem killing off royal children, but saves Davos' boy. She knows manipulation is her path to power. We've been with her for 4 books and still have no real clue as to her importance. Is she really just a Stannis side character or does she in fact serve a larger purpose? 5 books and counting and Mel remains the biggest mystery and clue to the biggest mystery!
  15. Curled Finger

    What if Robb knew Arya Escaped KL?

    No doubt Robb would have paid for Arya's release from anyone. Though I sort of like the possibility of Roose recognizing Arya at Harrenhal and taking her himself. Arya would have ended up in Ramsay's custody and would have found some way to kill him, because she is nothing if not resourceful. Mostly, I think the story would have gone much the same as it has without the Braavos side trip. As to heir, it's difficult to discern if Robb intended for the older and trusted bastard brother to take up his helm over his younger and less experienced sisters. Afterall, Robb and Jon seemed to be quite close and that implies trust and perhaps some intangible understanding between them? I can't see the GreatJon or Lady Dustin getting super excited to rally around Sansa or Arya, though Arya does seem to be important to the North as the story progressed. Gads, I can't recall a single mention of Sansa in Winterfell or Barrowtown and it's generally accepted that she is alive in hiding? As to the marriage of Arya to the Frey boy, was this somehow negated by Roose's rise to Warden of the North? Marrying Fat Walda? Are we even sure old nasty Walder is fine with Roose marrying "Arya" to Ramsay? He did have 1st dibs on her? Wonder if this will play out at all in TWOW?
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