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Ice Spider

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    Dick Wort

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  1. Ice Spider

    Where does Danny land?

    If the books have the entire fleet originally land at Dragonstone it's stupid. The Logical place to land would be Dorne, And then Dany, after getting supplies etc, travels on towards Dorne.
  2. Ice Spider

    Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

    You mean if "the winds of winter come out". How can D&D change something that has yet to be written. Is Grmm getting some of his ideas from the shows now? My guess is the Dany will lose a dragon to the Others in the book as well. It confuses me a bit though, if you can kill a white with fire, couldn't you kill a white dragon with fire as well?
  3. Ice Spider

    Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

    melt them all down and make a thousand valyrian steel arrowheads.
  4. Ice Spider

    The defense of the North

    Skipping the Northern forces and marching South would be a tactical mistake by the WW. They would then be facing attack on two fronts when pinched at the trident. If this where indeed the case, it would increase humanity's chances at winning. That being said, I am not so sure the WW would be facing the same normal limitations of a traditional army. I think the WW might posses the ability to freeze water and cross wherever they choose. Not sure though. I have always thought they (the WW) would adapt more of a scorched earth battle plan, choosing to conquer everything and anything in their path, skipping no one. I am not sure how much tactical knowledge they have of the lands they are about to attack.
  5. The dragon has three heads has nothing to do with Dragon riders. It is a symbolic reference to the fact that in order to defeat the others, the major three factions must come together which are: 1) Dany and her forces 2) Jon and his forces 3) The Lanisters and their forces. These are the three heads of the dragons, mark my words.
  6. Ice Spider

    The defense of the North

    Not sure that will happen, we would need snow on all the Southern sets. From a $ perspective, it makes a lot more sense to have the battle in the North.
  7. Ice Spider

    Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

    lol, more crying. 5. You have not shown me on multiple occassions it is like a trip from Europe to America even though you stated it. For one, america is over 4,000 miles away. And you came up with 3600. Even though it really is really somewhere between 2400-3000. Could you show me exactly how it is 3600 miles away? (both point 3 and point 5). This is a perfect illustration on how you can't get the simplest of facts right. I have consistently been using the distance from Plymouth England to Cape Cod, a well documented route. Fact: The Distance the Mayflower traveled to the new world was 2,750 miles http://www.rain.org/campinternet/american-history/thanksgiving/thanksgiving-the-voyage-over.html The distance from Plymouth England to Cape Cod is exactly 3,121 miles. https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4PLXB_enUS621US621&q=distance+from+Plymouth+England+to+Cape+Cod It took 66 days. FACT! The journey was made in the 16th century. IN the 16th century, gunpowder was widely in use, in GOT, gun powder has yet to be discovered, making it clear that the story is set in a time frame that predates 16th century technology. You want proof that Dorne is 3600 miles away from Meereen, this website does not allow for pictures to be posted, but I will provide a link. Here is a map that you provided, that I have shown the path that dany must take, and the scale copied and pasted several times to show the distance. In all actuality, 3600 miles is actually understated. Read it and weep. http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/world-of-ice-and-fire-world-map-political_zpsjqdqtynt.jpg How many more "facts" do you want?
  8. Ice Spider

    Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

    using the map you provided, it is 3600 miles to sail from Meereen to Dorne. You cannot go through the smoking sea (another point you were wrong on). Why don't you print the map you posted and plot a course around the valyrian peninsula and measure if for yourself. Then give it a rest. All throughout the course of this debate you have consistently tried to play word games as a means to try to tell us something you said isn't what you meant. When proven wrong you come up with things like "it doesn't matter" or that's not what I meant" or my favorite "even if that were true". I have used cold hard facts that have been documented to support my arguments. Documented trips of real voyages that are actually somewhat applicable to the argument at hand. You on the other hand have used one off examples of a single ship, sailing under perfect conditions and then extrapolating that into an armada of 350 ships being able to duplicate that in synchronicity. Good lord. The closest thing you have to date come to a small victory in this debate is the fact that Jorah and Tyrion did indeed make it across the smoking sea in a small two man fishing skiff. Not a galleon. Even then, it almost cost Jorah his life. Bravo young man Bravo! lets actually take a closer look at one of your original posts. 1. Westeros is not that far from the bay of dragons. The narrow sea is like the english channel. It probably takes a few days to cross. So you can exclude , tensions, massive amount of food and water or sickness for this travel because the trip is too short for that. Im sure Dorne also knows about navel warefare also having a naval army and probably highgarden. Well yes westeros is far away from the bay of dragons. 3600 miles by sail to be exact. you then went on to say this: "If every ship holds about 100 people which is what would be expected from ships that size, then even if the trip was 5 days travel lets say to get there. Each trip would be 5 days to Westeros and 5 days back. If she had 10 ships, she would need to make 70 trips about 2 years to get her army across. One year if she had 20 ships. 6 months if she had 40 ships, 3 months if she had 60 ships." So yes, she does need a lot of ships even if Westeros was only a few days away. It is quite obvious that you are using five days travel from the bay of dragons to westeros. as the sum total of the whole trip. Otherwise the whole statement makes absolutely no sense. YOu further go on to say that Dany could not use slave ships, even though the bulk of her fleet came from the slavers. more nonsense. you further went on to say this: Its quite sensible to sail from Dorne to Slavers bay to ensure her army doesn't delay. I don't know what you are not getting about the logistics of this? Basically, its the equivalent of sailing from Italy to Britain on a modern map. It doesn't take 3 months to do that. That would be a trip from europe to the americas. As I have shown you on multiple occasions, that trip is actually like sailing from Europe to the Americas, a trip you yourself said took 3 months. The distance is almost identical. Please, your really starting to look foolish. As you can see, YOUR the one that brought up the Europe to the Americas argument, you just didn't like it when it was pointed out just how long that journey actually took. lol you later go on to try and say Dany would travel across the smoking sea, more nonsense. Long story short, you don't have a clue what your talking about, and it is painfully obvious to everyone.
  9. Ice Spider

    Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

    LOL, that's not even a rebuttal, its a little child whining. Lol, again context escapes you. Yes Tyrion and Jorah barely survived crossing the smoking sea in a small 2 man fishing skiff. Only you would care to take that to show an armada of 300+ galleons could do the same. Pure idiocracy. If she goes around Valyria it is another 800- 1200 miles, making your 2400 mile journey now 3600 miles. Game-set-match. Use your own map Another lost argument on your part. Yes, it is, see above. Please, use your map. another loss on your part. 3600 miles is far away, It cannot be traversed via sailboat in the five days you claim. Hell, even 2400 miles is far away. The loss's keep piling up for you, such a shame, really. I have consistently used your own words to show that your arguments are contractions in what you have previously said. See definition of lie here: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/lie?s=t
  10. Ice Spider

    Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

    The sailor Quithe is painting is not traveling through the smoking sea, do you ever pay attention? He is only traveling close to valyria's shoreline.-- UMM evidence?? Again, no evidence from you. I admit, this particular scene is only sugestive and cannot be used as definitive evidence. But I wont make your mistake of just assuming something that then stating it as fact as you have just done here. We don't know if he is going through the smoking sea or not. Also Quithe is not a sailor, LOL. Do you even pay attention to the show or the books. Look her up. Can you even read?? The Sailor Quiathe is painting is what I said. Try harder, please? Again, you choose to use the time it took one ship to travel under perfect conditions and then extrapolate that to think that an armada of 300+ ships all could keep that pace? Incredible. Lmao....more fail. . Euron claims to have sailed the smoking sea, It is a point that is disputed even in the book itself. Again-try harder! While Tyrion and Jorah did cross the smoking sea, they are the first that are know to have done such, and it almost cost Jorah his life. Piloting a small shipping vessel through the smoking sea does not equate to it being safe to lead an armada on the same path. It's painfully obvious that you have absolutely no clue on sea travel, rather you spend hours googling for a few exceptions to the rule to try to prove your point. It would be suicidal and just plain stupid for Dany to suggest going through a dangerous shortcut with 350 ships, when they have no idea how deep the area is. sunken landmasses of a previously mountainous area are going to be fraught with dangerous hidden obstacles that could do serious damage to any number of the ships in the armada, and then who knows when the lethal gasses might pose a problem. You also have the fact that you would need 300+ captains willing to make that shortcut (again, not going to happen). And last but not least, I am quite sure Tyrion would strongly advise against it, having witnessed what happened to Jorah when they did make that trip. Again-try harder. 4. You said Westeros must be at least 2 months away from Mereen by sail. Then provided on evidence to support this. I provided a map showing it to be 2400-2600 miles if you go threw the smoking sea which translates to optimally 12-16 days sail. If you want to go around Valyria, its probably another few days but I have to check. Nowhere near the 2 months you propose. But you ignore this point. It's 3600 miles sail from Meereen to Sunspear, proven by a map you provided. End of story. There is no shortcut through the smoking sea, this is stupidity (which is why you keep arguing for it). It's a 300+ ship Armada, not a lightly loaded single super sail ship, sailing under ideal conditions. 5. You said that ships in Danys fleet carry 400-600 people tops. Well we looked at a scene which showed her fleet and those ships are WAAAY too small to even consider that many people. But again, it was ignored. More lies from you. I never said Dany's ships carried 400-600 people. What I did say is that there were slave ships that did carry that many people, brought up the fact the the bulk of Dany's fleet was made up of slave ships, and as such would not be surprising that Dany's ships could carry much more that the cargo you are using in your off the wall speculations. Show me were I said Dany's ships could carry 600 people? I did say if the journey was as short as you first claimed (which I have proven it isn't) then, and only then, could the ships capacity be increased two fold. Once again I will connect the dots for you, the journey is not a few days (your first post), not five days(your next off the wall post) and not a few weeks (again another post from you). It is over a month long at least, most likely two months, and for that reason, Dany's ships cannot be loaded over capacity. Are you really that thick? 6. You kept pointing out I said it was 5 days to travel. But failed to realise I said, across the narrow sea. Which is true, it is only a few days sail across the narrow sea since it is only a few hundred miles off the shores of westeros to say, Pentos on the other side of the sea. Yes, you did say across the narrow sea, I will give you that. Let me give you a lesson on context. You not only said it took five days to cross the narrow sea, you then extrapolated that into how long (using this same five days) it would take for Dany to move her forces to Westeros. Hey, guess what? Dany's forces are not on the East bank of the narrow sea, they are in Meereen. This was a known fact. Given the context of your post, either you were totally clueless as to where Dany forces set sail from, or, more likely, you didn't have a clue where on the map Meereen was when you first made your post. Good try though! Your really grasping at straws here, it's actually quite funny!
  11. Ice Spider

    Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

    read and weep dufus. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Smoking_Sea Yes, Jorah did traverse the smoking sea, in a two man fishing skiff, not a fleet of 300+ galleons. It also almost cost him his life. " In the A Song of Ice and Fire novels the Smoking Sea is ill-omened. Its waters are said to bubble and let off foul vapors and mists which can kill sailors outright. The Smoking Sea is a recent phenomenon, formed four hundred years ago during the Doom of Valyria when the peninsula was shattered by a massive series of volcanic eruptions and earthquakes. The Smoking Sea is considered cursed and haunted. Most sailors refuse to sail its waters, instead circumnavigating Valyria by taking a wide detour out to sea." http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/Smoking_Sea "The Smoking Sea is the body of water which separated the shattered islands of Valyria from the rest of the Valyrian Peninsula. The Smoking Sea was formed during the Doom of Valyria by earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. It is ill-omened and very few sailors would brave the Smoking Sea or sailing within sight of the Valyrian shoreThe Smoking Sea divides the islands of Valyria from the mainland. It consists of one major channel extending from the Summer Sea to the Gulf of Grief and many smaller ones extending south, around the several major islands. The Smoking Sea is so-named because it frequently smokes, bubbles and boils. The sea sometimes gives off poisonous fumes into the air, fumes which can kill a man within moments. Steam frequently drifts across the surface of the water, leading to the claims that ghosts and demons haunt the sea. ." http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Smoking_Sea " According to semi-canon sources it was once only a strait, but with the Doom of Valyria, the peninsula was subsumed and the strait was enlarged becoming the Smoking Sea.[2] It remains a dangerous area to sail and the waters are reported to be infested with krakens.[3] At some point the tigers, a political party in Volantis, sent a fleet to reclaim Valyria but the ships vanished in the Smoking Sea.[4] Circa 292 AC,[5]Gerion Lannister went on a quest to find the ancestral sword Brightroar and any other treasures that might have survived the Doom of Valyria. Almost a decade passed after his ship the Laughing Lion left Lannisport but Gerion never returned. Lord Tywin Lannister sent men to look for his lost brother and they traced him as far as Volantis, where half his crew had deserted him because of his intent to sail into the Smoking Sea. He was forced to buy slaves to replace them. [6]" Honestly, do you research anything before you post. Again, Meereen is 3600 nautical miles from Sunspear. As the crow flies is utterly useless information. From your own quote "average time from Britain to America was still 40 days," 200 years prior to that, it took more time. "Other people travel through the smoking sea too. Lets look at a scene in which Quithe is talking to Jorah " The sailor Quithe is painting is not traveling through the smoking sea, do you ever pay attention? He is only traveling close to valyria's shoreline. "1. I actually know all about this. What I said in my post is that the scene didn't exist in the episode 'a winds of winter' not that it didn't exist al all. After all, it was the scene where Yara gave 100 ships to Dany so I did know about it," And now your just flat out lying. This is exactly what you said: "As stated above the scene does not exist, This was your only point of evidence. And it doesn't exist."
  12. Ice Spider

    Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

    Now your have them traveling through the smoking sea. I figured. Don't let the fact no one has ever done if before and lived stop you....lmao. good try. you loose ""East of Westeros lies the Smoking Sea, where no ship dares sail. There are those who swear it to be demon-haunted. And who's to say they're wrong?" ―Viserys Targaryen[src]" Its 3600 miles by sea from Maeereen to Westeros. End of story. Oh, and this is your first post: "1. Westeros is not that far from the bay of dragons. The narrow sea is like the english channel. It probably takes a few days to cross. So you can exclude , tensions, massive amount of food and water or sickness for this travel because the trip is too short for that." Then later this:" then even if the trip was 5 days travel lets say to get there" And now this: "That is 40 days for 4400 miles. So 20 days on average for 2200 miles, the distance from Mereen to Sunspear as the crow flies. if you average out fast and slow ships on all journeys of that time period. 2 and a bit weeks. It is much closer to my estimate than it is yours. " So, it's proven that no sailor would sail through the smoking sea. You must sail around old valyria. The trip is at least 3600 miles, using the map YOU provided, which is 30 days by your estimate. LOL First a few days then five days now 30 days. Well, keep going, slowly your getting there. lmao more of your logic: ''1597: The 120-ton Hopewell left Falmouth in Cornwall on April 28 and "with prosperous windes" reached Newfoundland on May 18, after 20 days at sea. " You first quote the voyage of ONE ship (not a fleet of ships) making a trip at a blistering pace, and then use that to surmise that is an average time. Then you actually disprove your own theory. "Prosperous" indeed; by 1800, average time from Britain to America was still 40 days," lol. in 1800 the average time was 40 days. In 1500 it was considerably longer. And again, only a moron would calculate the distance as the crow flies. This is just too easy. Fail again on your part.
  13. Ice Spider

    Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

    1. For your first point. So what... it doesh't prove Westeros is far away which is your main argument. I commented on this before. Read my previous comments. It proves you don't pay very good attention when/if you watch the show. You said it didn't exist, It does. You were wrong, I was right. It goes towards credibility. This point is relevant (sit down, let me get out my crayons so I can draw you a picture), as I pointed out, to dispel your original hypothesis. You claimed it was "only a few days travel, from Meereen to Dorne. Later that increased to five days. My argument was, and always has been, why if it is only a five day travel, would Dorne even bother sailing to Mareen. As I have proved, Dany had enough ships (barely) to make the journey. You can over crowd a ships capacity 2 fold easily if the journey is only 5 days. If its two months, then you can't. What this means is your whole premise was wrong. Also, the speed at which these trips can travel was also overstated by you. In the 16th century, it took ships traveling from Plymouth England to Cape Cod 2-3 months. And Westeros is roughly in the 14th-15th century by comparison (slower ships). 2). You didn't disprove how many people could be on a ship, you gave me a blurry link with no information and then preceded to ignore all my countering evidence, including the very scene that shows Danys armada, thats not the same thing. I gave you a well documented link of a slave ship that had the capacity to carry 6x the people that you claim a slave ship could hold. It's not my fault your to lazy (or embarrassed) to fact check. It is such a stretch of the imagination to think the "Slavers" ships were modified slave ships? Really? Come on man! While they may not be able to carry 600 people, 1/2 of that or close is not hard. 3) Here's the scene again. Apparently, they are magic ships that fit hundreds of men in them. Do you have any clue at all how ships are constructed? You do realize that they carry there cargo in the cargo hold (goods and passengers), below on multiple decks, right??? These are not row boats after all. 4) And your second entry also doesn't prove Westeros is far away, Also your comment about operation overlord is not right either. Please pay attention. I know you don't when watching the show, but if your going to participate in a debate, show some class. I did not make the comment about operation overlord. 5) Also your arguments about why Mereen was far from Dorne were a bit rubbish. You talk about Dorne and Mereen trading. We don't know the answer to that. It's simple logic, but I understand why it escapes you. The closer Dorne is to Meereen, the more likely the trip will be made ever more frequently. The more frequently the trip is made, the more word of mouth spreads about Dany, her Dragons, and her intentions, This would have Westeros preparing for immanent invasion, or at least talking about the dragons. None of this has happened. 6) ...blah blah blah blah....Heres another source (source 2) with a scale bar along the bottom also agreeing with me, https://atlasoficeandfireblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/05/a-political-map-of-the-known-world/ I really think you need to take a good look at that map, it clearly shows the travel from Meereen to Sunspear to be approximately 3600 miles. You do realize when you sail, you actually have to stay in the water, right? Navigating a course around old valyria (and no, you can't cut across the smoking sea), that distance is easily over 3600 miles. Now go back and see how long the trip was from Plymouth to Cape Cod (3100 miles). This is a common and well documented journey sailed in the 16th century, and how long it took. Guess what? It took over 2 months!! 7) In fact, the distance between Kings Landing and the Wall in the north are the same as the distance between Kings landing and Slavers bay, And we see characters move between those two points all the time. Except it's not. Not unless they have invented planes in Westeros yet. You can't draw a straight line from Sunspear to Meereen and say "this is how far they have to travel". Good lord! 8) Where are your sources to say otherwise? That it would take months to sail this distance? That means they would only travel 33 miles a day. Maybe if you walked on a good road and you weren't in too much of a rush it would take you 2 months to get from Mereen to Westeros. If you travelled for 2 months, it would be bout 5,000 miles or more, this is even well beyond the Shadow lands and goes off this map beyond the jade gates. Nobody in the World of Ice and Fire has ever travelled that far away yet. I posted about well known journeys of the actual distance involved, and how long they took in the 16th century. It's better than anything you have yet to post. Give up already......
  14. Ice Spider

    Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

    try again. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KAqa9wwODqaFkegqf8Si6fmuE55-M-GMIj0ZmcKUFxs/edit
  15. Ice Spider

    Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

    OK dufus, I posted the link to prove that tyrion said to dany that they had barely enough ships. The other is just fodder. Do you even watch the show? Re-watch episode nine, its in there. That will be another of your posts I disproved. Also disproved your theory on how many people a ship could hold for a 5 day journey. Made good arguments as to why it cannot be so close as well, not without creating huge plot holes. Now, take a look at the map on this link, and explain to me how the sail from Mareen to Dorne is only five days. http://www.sermountaingoat.co.uk/map/versions/speculative_map.jpg And then there is this: "Daenerys's control over Meereen is restored, and she seizes control of the remainder of the Masters' armada. Shortly thereafter, the Iron Fleet, led by the exiled Yara and Theon Greyjoy arrive and negotiate with Daenerys, offering use of the Fleet for the conquest of mainland Westeros in exchange for an independent Iron Islands under Yara's rule. Daenerys agrees on the condition that the Ironborn change their ways forever, which Yara reluctantly agrees to. The combined ships give Daenerys the means to not only secure Meereen, but to move the bulk of her army to Westeros at last. " Taken from here: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Siege_of_Meereen Now, give up already, stop posting and start watching the show. Hard to imagine someone that actually watched to forget that important scene.
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