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Lady Rhodes

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  1. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I thought they increased taxes on the Riverlands.
  2. I had originally thought it was written by Ramsey as well, but I am growing less inclined to believe it. At this point, I’m sure you have heard all the points to the contrary, so can I ask why you don’t find them persuasive? The biggest IMO are the discrepancies between this letter and other letters Ramsey is known to have sent (ink, lack of skin) and the knowledge of Val.
  3. That’s my point - he isn’t doing it altruistically. He is doing it as a way to gain support for the throne. Agree. I don’t expect him to die in battle or at the hands of Brienne of Tarth. and we will see with time who is right with the leeches
  4. I think you are reaching. I don’t think Mel rejoices in burning but feels it necessary. And whether it is Mance or Lord of Bones, it was still burning someone. Completely agree with your sentiment that Stannis is a prick and the sorcery to murder Renly to get the iron throne shows the depths of his depravity. His ambition - that he disguises as simply fighting for his rights - is sending him further into depths of hell. Not necessarily directed at you, @Lord Varys, but to others who don’t see the difference between Stannis’ motivations versus Melisandre’s: Stannis was pissed about Robert giving Storms End to Renly after the rebellion, he lives Shireen but is angry he doesn’t have a son, he wants to be the fabled Last Hero to save mankind so he will finally get the praise he is due…there is more to his quest that simply “wanting his rights”. There is a selfish bent to them, which I do not think is in Melisandre. She earnestly feels she is doing the right thing to protect humanity. Also, Final thought re: Stannis. We keep hearing how he will break before he bends. I think that foreshadows how sacrificing Shireen is going to cause him to ultimately fail and realize the depths he has sunk, hence “breaking”. I don’t doubt it either, but I hesitate to say that it did not play a roll at all.
  5. They burn Lord of Bones, disguised as Mance I don’t see how you can justify re:Gilly baby and Aemon as Jon and Aemon being paranoid. We know that they have no reason to be paranoid because Melisandre DID do it with the leeches. Regardless of whether it was a charade or not, she is spouting off about king’s blood and THEY think she has the power and inclination, so I wouldn’t characterize them as paranoid, but cautious. And for the record, again I am stating that I don’t think Melisandre is evil. I think she is focused on what she perceives as the greater harm and that the means - however tragic and terrible they may be - justify the ends if it stops humanity from being eradicated. Isn’t that the whole point of the Edric/Davos/Melisandre arc? Stannis says to Davos what is the life one boy against a kingdom and Davos says “Everything.” It is the push pull of ends justifying means. also, while you are correct about a lot of Melisandre’s charades, she did birth two shadow demons to kill the person holding Storms End (name escapes me) and Renly, so it is not all charade.
  6. Then what is the purpose of switching Gilly and Mance’s baby? Wasn’t it to avoid such a thing? I agree that it mimics it but I don’t in any way, shape, or form think Stannis is Azor Ahai. Time will tell with this, I suppose but I am inclined to disagree. I would argue that after the Fist and what they heard at Hardhome, they are definitely closing in. BUT I will say this - I don’t think Shireen burning has to happen soon. I am willing to entertain the possibility her resurrection is affiliated with Jon, but I am not married to the idea. It could happen far closer to the end of the book or the whole series.
  7. Re: Euron - fair point. RE: king’s blood - so there has to be a relationship. Would you entertain the thought that perhaps the potency of the magic is correlated to the potency of the relationship? re: leeches - well…I suppose it depends on how you view things. I can see your argument against and you provide good points- if Mel foresaw the deaths and wanted to create an illusion of power. She certainly explains she is not above illusions during her chapter. However, the leeches are part of the whole “power of king’s blood” arc. The arc falls apart without that but of foreshadowing. Now, if your argument is that it is supposed to fall apart because there is no power in king’s blood, fair. But if you do believe there is power in king’s blood, I think we have to admit that the leeches in someway affected/influenced the chain of events. Perhaps made the plans for the assasinations “worked” in the bad luck sense - put Balon on the bridge at the right time, ensured that the correct poison got to Olenna, ensured Robb’s men really wanted to get drunk. You get the idea. re: Mel’s intentions - I don’t think she is inherently evil. As I said before, she is deeply concerned with the Great Other - and if the Great Other is related/affiliated with the Others, then she is right to be concerned! When faced with an existential threat such as the Others, though, what methods and measures is she going to deem necessary? I think GRRM’s arc or part of the arc he intends for Mel is the question “do the ends justify the means?”
  8. I get your general premise here, but I think you are reaching to say that Euron “loves” anyone. thank you for clarifying your point, though. I do see what you mean. I guess my feeling is that Mel is obsessed with King’s blood and her main goal is not Stannis, nor has it ever been. Her main goal is defeating the Great Other. The only reason she is with Stannis is because she thinks he is Azor Ahai. If she believes someone else is, her allegiance is going to shift. I am not saying that her burning Shireen is in order to resurrect Jon, but for another reason she believes furthers her purpose against the Great Other. Now, about your point about sacrifice in blood magic requiring pain/loss/love, a few thoughts. 1)it is not clear how much of a sacrifice Edric would have been. Stannis was going to sacrifice him without much pushback. Stannis seemed to view him as expendable. Like a “oh, I guess that is unfortunate but oh well” and 2) Mel did blood magic with the leeches that possibly led to the deaths of Robb, Joffrey, and Balon. That power/magic did not require a substantial sacrifice. (Which also makes you wonder - if three leeches with kings blood did that, what can a whole body do?)
  9. I actually agree with this wholeheartedly. I am so confused in your logic here. You seem to agree in previous comments that Shireen will burn. I don’t understand how that can be reconciled with your above statement, especially when later on you agree that Stannis burning Shireen makes narrative sense (which I agree). Are you just in disagreement with the idea that the Shireen’s burning is connected with Job’s resurrection? I agree. If Hodor can be a crucial plot, anything seemingly innocuous could be open for speculation.
  10. That was my point. Not that it would necessarily benefit Jon. I can’t imagine given the scale and scope and heart of Martin’s writing that magic always works how it is intended. He work is full of unintended consequences, and I don’t see how magic is any different.
  11. I suppose that is where we can rest in our agreement: magic may not work how you intend it.
  12. Mirri Maz Duur, Drogo, and Dany seems like unintended side effects to me. You could argue that Mirri did know what she was doing and so it was not unintended, but magic like prophecy is a double edge blade.
  13. I actually agree with you. Perhaps where we diverge is that I am open to the possibility that the unintended consequence is that it affects Jon’s resurrection. I don’t think it is going to benefit Stannis at all.
  14. I don’t disagree that there is plenty of textual evidence for Mel resurrecting Jon without sacrifice because of Beric and Thoros. But I do think that Shireen is going to be sacrificed and I think it is going to have unintended results.
  15. @Morte Agree about going to the Iron Islands- I hope it doesn’t happen. I don’t see what purpose it would serve. The Iron Islanders are the linchpins in other plots, connecting them (Asha and Theon with Stannis, Sam and Euron in Oldtown but also Wall through Sam, and Victorian in Slaver’s Bay)
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